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Bioshock: Infinite - New E3 Demo - Post #307


The Sarge
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if you haven't done it yet:

throw a load of return to sender traps on the exposed bit that you have to protect. They act like a shield - someone else mentioned this and I used it on 1999 mode. made that section a breeze.

this is a really interesting vid:

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Getting battered on the command deck. Gone through the whole game on normal and don't really want to have to switch to easy at this stage.

Use posession on the heavy hitters, and songbird on the patriots, chuck plenty of traps. It's really easy once you strategise.
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On my second run through of this and just done from the raffle to the bit after battleship bay. Second time round, this game is absolutely brilliant. A true work of brilliance when you see all the little touches, when the story is all there being given to you in little drops... Just fabulous stuff.

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I've played a few hours of this. It seems very so-so.

One thing I do really like is that Booker is not silent. I really like that he is a character with dialogue and personality, and not just some blank slate or whatever. I think i'm getting increasingly annoyed with silent protagonists in games.

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Replace past with "other" and you're about there I think. Sledgehammer cognitive dissonance.

Sweet. I like to think that the other versions of them will live on through the current Anna and Booker.

Succumbing to the fact that my Elizabeth no longer exists sucks.

I wonder who Songbird could be too. Fink takes the technology from Rapture and the Big Daddy's, so I'm guessing the mechanical aspects were merged with someone.

Maybe one of the many failed Booker's?

Bring on the DLC! \o/

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  • 2 weeks later...

One thing I do really like is that Booker is not silent. I really like that he is a character with dialogue and personality, and not just some blank slate or whatever. I think i'm getting increasingly annoyed with silent protagonists in games.

I've just started this.

One odd thought that struck me is just how the fiction limits how you can perceive your character - OK, in most games, you don't get the choice to play as a black person, or a woman. But you'll probably be thinking of you as 'you'.

In this, you just can't see yourself as anything except

a

white guy rescuing the girl; it just won't work otherwise. The voice is clearly a guy, which limits that choice. You can't even ignore your on-screen hands and pretend you're a black guy, because it's clear from pretty early on that the whole scenario would fall apart if you were. Booker has to be white, or he wouldn't get five yards unchallenged. 'You' don't get to rescue your brothers and sisters. (Don't think this is a major spoiler, but in case there are readers who haven't reached the raffle.)

Telling this particular story seems to constrain the player's own self-image a little more than most 1ps games; especially those with silent avatars (and without mirrors :-).

Ah, well, just

found myself a dead gunsmith in a cell, and decided to go elsewhere...

; I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out...

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It's the story of those characters, smac. It's not a story where YOU are the hero. It's a story about Booker Dewitt and what happens to him.

Yeah, I get it - like I don't get confused over Lara Croft representing me on-screen, and in Duke Nukem I was clearly playing a big, dumb white redneck guy stereotype.

It's just that for most first-person shooters with dumb protagonists, you can assume you look like almost anything; the devs don't have to explicitly alienate anyone.

As I said it's an odd thought - just struck me that the whole scenario, rather than explicit character design choices by the designers, ruled 'playing' a certain type of character out.

And I hope that wasn't a minor spoiler, there, angel, you scamp.

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Just finished. Holy hell what an ending. Blown my mind. I didn't feel I fully understood, and even after just reading a couple of different sites' version of it I still feel the same.

Mindblowing. Excellent. Fantastic.

That tear that puts you.. well - YOU KNOW WHERE! - made me do a massive fucking grin.

Hats off Irrational. Top stuff.

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Yeah, I get it - like I don't get confused over Lara Croft representing me on-screen, and in Duke Nukem I was clearly playing a big, dumb white redneck guy stereotype.

It's just that for most first-person shooters with dumb protagonists, you can assume you look like almost anything; the devs don't have to explicitly alienate anyone.

As I said it's an odd thought - just struck me that the whole scenario, rather than explicit character design choices by the designers, ruled 'playing' a certain type of character out.

And I hope that wasn't a minor spoiler, there, angel, you scamp.

Booker isn't a dumb protagonist though - he clearly has a voice and he uses it.

Its a story heavy game told through the first person perspective - you aren't role playing Brooker you are just watching what unfolds through his eyes.

Oh and its magnificent too...

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Just finished. Holy hell what an ending. Blown my mind. I didn't feel I fully understood, and even after just reading a couple of different sites' version of it I still feel the same.Mindblowing. Excellent. Fantastic.That tear that puts you.. well - YOU KNOW WHERE! - made me do a massive fucking grin.Hats off Irrational. Top stuff.

Agreed.

It's a truly excellent game on every level.

I don't complete many games these days but this gripped me from the outset to its epic finale.

It's the first game I've played where, after completing it, I wanted to mail the developers thanking them for their efforts. I didn't though but definitely considered it for quite a while..

It'll be an awesome year if this isn't game of the year...

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Woah just thought; is it implied that (don't read less you've finished):

Andrew Ryan is another version of Dewitt? Crazy town.

Absolutely love it. Can't stop thinking about it. Need to go back through this thread, methinks!! :)

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Very minor but i'll tag it.

Yeah, I've played through it quite some more (into Comstock House and a little further...) and some things are broadly panning out as I suspected they might; you may have given me a little clue, there.

It is a great game, isn't it?

@dreamy:

you aren't role playing Brooker you are just watching what unfolds through his eyes.

Clearly this, of course. Like I said it was an odd thought and I'm not sure why it struck me when it did.

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Woah just thought; is it implied that (don't read less you've finished):

Andrew Ryan is another version of Dewitt? Crazy town.

Absolutely love it. Can't stop thinking about it. Need to go back through this thread, methinks!! :)

More the Comstock version of Dewitt than the Booker version, but, yes, that is how I read it too.

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Finally finished this on the other day. Played through the whole thing on Hard which wasn;t a particularly pleasant exprience initially. I got into the combat for perhaps the last quarter of the game but it was the plot that kept me going. If people hadn't been going on about the ending I'd never have persevered with that final battle, which took dozens if not hundreds of attempts to finally do.

Anyway, definitely the best Bioshock and would probably play again on 1999 mode now that I can just about not die every two minutes.

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Yeah, I've played through it quite some more (into Comstock House and a little further...) and some things are broadly panning out as I suspected they might; you may have given me a little clue, there.

It is a great game, isn't it?

Hopefully nothing spoiling, im sure youve already seen the quantum mechanic stuff going on with tears and so on. I bought the season pass the instant i watched the (20 min long and spectacular) ending, then started again on 1999.
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Another thing that occurred to me - the Ken Levine and the trailers all made a big deal about Elizabeth's relationship with the Songbird and how it was like that of an abusive boyfriend and his victim and all this, but ultimately the Songbird and Elizabeth only ever interact like three times over the entire game. Their entire relationship could have been cut and it would have barely made a difference. I suspect that they only left the Songbird in because they made such a big deal about him (and had probably spent a lot of time and resources making the spectacular action sequences he features in). From a story perspective he's pretty extraneous now.

Although I did enjoy the implication that his design was based on the Big Daddy as glimpsed through a tear.

I thought it would be interesting to check out some of the older trailers to see how different they are from the final product, and it really shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HGSvIA-BHU%5B/media%5D'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HGSvIA-BHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBwKO4RFOU%5B/media%5D'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBwKO4RFOU

First of all, the combat scenes are never as huge or complicated as they are in these, especially the second one. It implies that calling the massive zeppelin is a dynamic gameplay event, whereas in the final game it's totally scripted. Everything is massively pared down from this in the final game - if Infinite had ended up being terrible, I wonder if this would have been the "evidence" in an Aliens: CM-style scandal?

There's interesting stuff from a story angle as well - originally Elizabeth had super-vigor-like powers, which suggests that there might have been an in-universe explanation for vigors until they were ditched for the tears. Also notable that Elizabeth became progressively better at her powers - in the first trailer using them actively injures her, in the second, she is unstable about them, and in the final game she just uses them whenever she wants. Looks like "Saltonstall" became Comstock, and in the second video they're actually fairly positive about him, while he's pretty much a bad guy from the very beginning of the final game. There seems like there was going to be a lot more exposition about the crimes of the Vox that was cut, explaining perhaps why it was so clumsy in the final game?

One last thing that just occurred to me:

What the fuck was up with Fink? When you arrive in Finkton he has his man help you out - is there ever any reason given for this? Or the fact that he was holding "Booker DeWitt Auditions" in the Good TImes Club? What was all that about? Did I miss something? It all seemed to just be forgotten when the revolution started.

Just dredging this back up after going back through the thread.

Its a sound and well-reasoned post, however for me it reinforces more than ever that staying away from pre-release hype only improves your time spent with a game due to a lack of expectations.

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Yeah, that's something that affected me, although more with the story than the gameplay, and I avoided a lot of pre-release media.

ENDING SPOILERS

Levine was talking about how Elizabeths powers were based around quantum mechanics and many-worlds hypothesis in previews with the press, which just made the ending just massively anticlimactic. Like I'd been playing through just assuming that many worlds with her powers was a core conceit (it's not like the game hides this, even though it takes ages for the characters to figure it out), and the plot would involve some crazy story that leveraged that aspect in some interesting ways, and I'm trying to figure out where it's going and the ending was just "nope, just many worlds theory, anything is possible, this solves everything", which was far less interesting, had been spoiled and was just pretty reductive.

Like it's not like I'd figured it out, but I'd actually been told it by the design lead in a way that made it seem like common knowledge or only a single aspect of the setting and plot.

It is clear the game got pretty mangled in that overhaul a year before release in order to actually ship it. I'd love to have more of the original design documented.

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Finally finished this on the other day. Played through the whole thing on Hard which wasn;t a particularly pleasant exprience initially. I got into the combat for perhaps the last quarter of the game but it was the plot that kept me going.

Yeah, I avoided hard because it looked like the kind of game where you'd want to be a tourist for the first run through it; like Dishonored.

Hopefully nothing spoiling, im sure youve already seen the quantum mechanic stuff going on with tears and so on.

No, no real spoiler there; I know that these threads can't help but leak some information about the game; I know to keep out of them if I want to approach the game fresh.

But one good thing about rllmuk is that we're all pretty good about avoiding all except really minor spoilers.

And like you said, stuff like the tears have been trailed well in advance by just about every preview and review of the game, and the banter of the 'twins' kinda sets up the scenario, anyway. It has broadly panned out as I expected, although there are still some intriguing details to be fleshed out - like the significance of the choice of cameo for the choker...

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Ooooooh, now that is what I call an ending.

Bravo, chaps; bravo. And indeed, bravura.

Credits are scrolling - that 'From the team' section is a nice touch.

Now to read the rest of the thread...

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Interesting to read through the other comments.

Not a huge amount of discussion on the game mechanics - plot and ending discussion all the way. Some people commenting it wasn't a great shooter - well, of course; it's not about the gunplay, it's about combinations of gun, and Vigors, and Gear and how they interact, especially with the added layer of the tracks and their influence on combat.

Playing it on Normal, you can just gun your way through, and it's not that engaging; wasn't until the last third that I was beginning to mix it up a little and actually use the Vigors (don't think I actually used Bucking Bronco once until I had collected all the rest, for example).

So I started off running up and shooting people in the face with the shotgun. Then I started to use Undertow to pull targets directly towards me, then I shot them in the face. Then I realised that this was even better if I laid down an electro-trap first before I dragged them onto it, stunning them for longer so I could shoot them in the face in a more leisurely fashion. Then I found Gear that multiplied the damage for every person I killed with a weapon. Then I upgraded Undertow to pull three targets to me, have them zapped by the electro-trap, blow their heads off with the shotgun, charging up the damage x3, then walk out and take out pretty much anything in a shot or two.

That's just one weapon and two vigors.

And the ending was great, too. As for the journey, well...

I am so glad I left the credits running until the end.

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