We don't like waggle

[Smitty]

More fun than pressing a button, yes.

I'm serious, and I bet all you waggle fearing losers really hate that. Don't worry, no-one's going to stop making boring old button mashers just yet. But I'd love it if they did.

Personally I would find it pretty irritating eventually. Making a whipping motion doesn't help to immerse you in the game.

[Nate Dogg III]

Did you ever get round to playing Red Dead, Smitty?

[RubberJohnny]

Hardcore gamers are a 200-pound tumour on the neck of the industry.

[Smitty]

Many of them are; it's a fair comment.

EDIT: Added a semi-colon to annoy Nate.

No, it's just a horseshit fallacy designed to allow waggle pedants to wallow in the notion in the notion that people who aren't enamoured of motion controls are somehow intellectually deficient.

Some people don't like waggle, deal with it.

[Danster]

I thought this was gonna be like the song about cricket.

[Hawkeye]

Personally I would find it pretty irritating eventually. Making a whipping motion doesn't help to immerse you in the game.

He must have loved cutting the grass in Zelda!

[Kelthink]

I started off as a waggle wanter, but now I'm waggle free.

Bought a Wii at launch and couldn't wait for the revolution, but outside the Wii Sports games for a bit of multiplayer fun now and again there was nothing at all I thought was any better for motion controls, and quite a lot I thought was far worse for it.

I've since sold the Wii and don't miss it at all. Due to my experience with that I have no interest at all with Move.

I think it's barely been delved into, to be honest. Warioware Inc. on the Wii has a lot of good mini-games, but I think it suffers from a lack of exploitation (although this is my one gripe with Nintendo anyway - they don't expand concepts enough a lot of the time). It reminds me of rumble, which was done excellently in MGS games hasn't gone much further than that.

[Smitty]

It's weird coz I remember hyping the hell out of the Wii. Now I am told that little did I know that I had already decided that I hated it.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I had my doubts about the Wii, and got shouted down for it. A bit like this thread, only now there are only about 3 people who still believe in waggle rather than 300.

[Sprite Machine]

Some people don't like waggle, deal with it.

I can totally accept people disliking the implementation of motion controls. Even every single example of motion controls.

I cannot accept anyone disliking the entire concept of motion controls for any application, in any form, ever, full-stop.

You're a fairly open-minded chap, Smits. I wouldn't lump you in the with close-minded ones. But they do exist. Oh lordy, yes they do.

[Hawkeye]

I think it's barely been delved into, to be honest. Warioware Inc. on the Wii has a lot of good mini-games, but I think it suffers from a lack of exploitation (although this is my one gripe with Nintendo anyway - they don't expand concepts enough a lot of the time). It reminds me of rumble, which was done excellently in MGS games hasn't gone much further than that.

True, although as time passes I wonder about the concept. It's almost like they invented the controller and then thought about the games, rather than the two being something that need to work together.

It seems like the controller came first and then they went away to think about games, rather than an idea for a game or series of games and discovering they needed a new controller interface.

[Sprite Machine]

I had my doubts about the Wii, and got shouted down for it. A bit like this thread, only now there are only about 3 people who still believe in waggle rather than 300.

Oh man, you do NOT want to play the numbers game; I hear the Wii is quite... popular.

[RubberJohnny]

I'm amused by people backing down and providing the same old excuses in a thread that's designed to be a waggle hate on. That often happens when they can't back up their statements.

Shame those excuses about not liking it in practice are just lip-service though, as pointed out by numerous core titles and posts upthread.

I had my doubts about the Wii, and got shouted down for it. A bit like this thread, only now there are only about 3 people who still believe in waggle rather than 300.

There was a lot of shit before it launched though, we had six months of "I don't want to stand up" or "I don't have a big room", every so often someone bumps an old thread so we can have a bit of a laugh and a sneer.

Then again, maybe it hasn't gone, judging by "I don't want to have my arm sticking out for 12 hours."

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

True, although as time passes I wonder about the concept. It's almost like they invented the controller and then thought about the games, rather than the two being something that need to work together.

It seems like the controller came first and then they went away to think about games, rather than an idea for a game or series of games and discovering they needed a new controller interface.

One excuse for the lack of quality games and the huge amount of broken shovelware on the Wii was that 'developers need time to get used to the tech', but in the end it never really materialised. A couple of ambitious but failed experiments like Zack & Wiki or Red Steel, two shooters that work reasonably well (MP3 and RE4), a handful of lightgun games and a few ports of mouse-based PC games. Not too mention the complete lack of PS3 Sixaxis games.

I think that's pretty much what the last 4 years of widespread motion controls has brought us.

Oh man, you do NOT want to play the numbers game; I hear the Wii is quite... popular.

So is Jedward.

[Sprite Machine]

One excuse for the lack of quality games and the huge amount of broken shovelware on the Wii was that 'developers need time to get used to the tech', but in the end it never really materialised. A couple of ambitious but failed experiments like Zack & Wiki or Red Steel, two shooters that work reasonably well (MP3 and RE4), a handful of lightgun games and a few ports of mouse-based PC games. Not too mention the complete lack of PS3 Sixaxis games.

I think that's pretty much what the last 4 years of widespread motion controls has brought us.

So even a waggle-hater agrees that there are some worthwhile games that make good use of motion or pointer controls. Do you therefore accept that a world without these games would a less rich one, even if it's just slightly less?

If so, yay, progress!

So is Jedward.

Quite.

[mushashi]

Personally, I think part of the problem with motion controls is that the technology still isn't mature enough for demanding applications, M+ existing being a prime example of that fact or the inherent lag in Kinect.

That and developers still failing to think outside the box and come up with game concepts not rooted in existing templates, where motion control adds little of real value.

[Smitty]

So *are* Jedward.

Jesus, Nap. Jesus Christ.

[Sprite Machine]

So *are* Jedward.

Wrong. The word is singular.

[Talk Show Host]

Hardcore gamers are a 200-pound tumour on the neck of the industry.

Yeah, that's why Sony and Microsoft live and die by their buying power.

[Karzee]

It was great playing Wii Sports with my 8 year old niece, and amazing to see her and her father (a complete novice to gaming) really enjoying playing Lego Star Wars/Lego Indiana Jones together. However, regarding those Lego games, I should note that they found it easier to play by pushing buttons (i.e. to use light sabre) on the wiimote than it was to use motion control, and it's precisely this that won't see me adopting waggle over buttons/sticks. Waggle is fun when it has been implemented very well but imprecise and pointless when it's not. And the games that have waggle implemented well are not the types of games I like to play on my own or online.

Waggle has it's place in gaming.....just not in my home.

[Talk Show Host]

It was great playing Wii Sports with my 8 year old niece, and amazing to see her and her father (a complete novice to gaming) really enjoying playing Lego Star Wars/Lego Indiana Jones together. However, regarding those Lego games, I should note that they found it easier to play by pushing buttons (i.e. to use light sabre) on the wiimote than it was to use motion control, and it's precisely this that won't see me adopting waggle over buttons/sticks. Waggle is fun when it has been implemented very well but imprecise and pointless when it's not. And the games that have waggle implemented well are not the types of games I like to play on my own or online.

Waggle has it's place in gaming.....just not in my home.

Then you sir are a hypocrite!

[Sprite Machine]

Waggling to use the lightsaber in Lego Star Wars was awful, yes. Thankfully it wasn't mandatory.

I'm still waiting for a proper lightsaber game, though.

[RubberJohnny]

Then you sir are a hypocrite!

Hmm, yes, please explain how my post about someone being hypocritical by claiming that the games were built around the device and this was bad and then providing an example of the same that was good was somehow against HD or people against waggle.

Christ you make terrible posts.

[Vaya.]

I'm still waiting for waggle to be used in a non-frustrating way.

[Stolly]

Another thing the wii suffers from, with me any road, is that I only have time to play so many games. It doesn't really matter what that number is but, if its say 12 new games a year, I suspect that only 2 of them would likely to be Wii games. This year I think I've only bought half a dozen games all in and I haven't bought a single Wii game but last year I did buy two or three. So although someone might put that down to a preference of a HD console over an SD one or non-waggle over waggle, in reality its just that the games I've most wanted to buy haven't been on the wii.

I have played games on the wii this year by the way - Zelda TWW, Majora's Mask and another rerun of RE4 as well as a huge slice of super monkey ball

[Talk Show Host]

Hmm, yes, please explain how my post about someone being hypocritical by claiming that the games were built around the device and this was bad and then providing an example of the same that was good was somehow against HD or people against waggle.

Christ you make terrible posts.

This coming from the person that called the hardcore gamers a 200 pound tumor?

[Karzee]

Then you sir are a hypocrite!

How so? I don't believe it is hypocritical to say that waggle fills a gaming niche, that it is here to stay, and that it's a good thing if it can bring families/friends together, but that I don't personally wish to use waggle as a control method incorporated into my preference of games.

[Davros sock drawer]

Personally I would find it pretty irritating eventually. Making a whipping motion doesn't help to immerse you in the game.

I guess that's where we always have, and always will, differ.

[Stolly]

No smitty's right, making arse spanking movements with the wii remote to giddy up a horse would be utterly, utterly awful. Not far removed from spinning the remote around your head to lasso a horse or stabbing down with it to simulate skinning a cougar. That isn't emersion in the game, its looking a complete prat while sat on the sofa

[Davros sock drawer]

No smitty's right, making arse spanking movements with the wii remote to giddy up a horse would be utterly, utterly awful. Not far removed from spinning the remote around your head to lasso a horse or stabbing down with it to simulate skinning a cougar. That isn't emersion in the game, its looking a complete prat while sat on the sofa

You exaggerate, but that's what I like. I genuinely find it more immersive. I was out of my seat spanking those bosses in Zelda, all like "Take that ya cunt!". It's how I roll. Like a prat.