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Frames Per Second, AA, Tearing etc...


The Mighty Ash
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Fluctuating frame-rate is by biggest pet peeve. It's what I really dislike about PC gaming: how you might hit that magic 60fps most of the time, but occasionally something over-complicated will happen, which will cause it to plummet. Triple-buffering is useful but when using a mouse to play it can still feel like wading through treacle. On the PC, I'd rather games provided a frame limiting option - like in Just Cause 2 - as I'd choose a consistent 30fps over an unguaranteed 60 any day.

This is one reason why I love consoles. At least there's a consistency there. Also, a gamepad being less accurate appears to gloss over any framerate drops.

+ 1 for more AA.

All of which can be easily resolved by the age old PC gaming adage of 'throw silly amounts of money at it'

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~layte/pics/fc2-results-1.JPG

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~layte/pics/new-bench/dirt2_game%202010-07-27%2019-09-55-11.png

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~layte/pics/new-bench/RE5DX10%202010-07-27%2020-05-54-20.png

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Jagged edges on shapes annoy me because I'm convinced it's a problem with my TV specifically because I refuse believe nobody else is as bothered by how jagged the edges of some 2D geometric shapes are on menus alone, let alone the edges of 3d ones.

Tearing is ridiculous.

I don't think I've ever even noticed a frame rate unless it's visibly stuttering.

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Everyone seems to have different reactions to framerate, I think it's down to retinal persistence. Tearing on the other hand, is something about which we should take to the streets with placards until someone sorts it out.

Sort of agree with Layte but you don't need to throw loads of money at it. As long as you can get 60 constant you don't really need an average framerate of 200.

RE: Frame update rates and FPS games.

Some people actually did some scientific research into this back in 2006, shame they only tested upto 60fps, but the conclusion was:

http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/fr/

I could have told you that! 60fps all the way. That study is actually really interesting, thanks. I especially like the chart where it shows exactly that the lower the frame rate, the more health lost in a given time. Interesting that the perceived jump between 30 and 60 is so small. I seriously think most people can't tell the difference, and I'm not being elitist. Whatever makes 30fps look jerky to me also makes me see phosphor trails where no-one else can and makes it nearly impossible to follow any kind of remotely quick movement on a cinema screen. It's rubbish.

Weirdly though, it appears that the subjects couldn't see the difference between 30 and 60, but still performed noticeably better at 60.

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But it's just not worth it at the end of the day, is it?? I mean, really?

I used to do the same thing, but now I think of it as being a time when I had too much time and money with the wrong sense of priorities. I think my 4870x2 which I bought almost 2 and a half years ago will be the last super expensive card I ever bother investing in for my PC. Thank god the market feels like it has saturated - I for one am pleased about the stall in the console cycle. Creativity/visual flair over polygons any day of the week.

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Everyone seems to have different reactions to framerate, I think it's down to retinal persistence. Tearing on the other hand, is something about which we should take to the streets with placards until someone sorts it out.

Sort of agree with Layte but you don't need to throw loads of money at it. As long as you can get 60 constant you don't really need an average framerate of 200.

The problem I have with it is even 56fps can feel a drag in some games compared to the magic 60fps, when you can reach it. Normally it's a case of turning on the bells and whistles and sacrificing framerate, or ignoring them and managing it. But neither is a win-win, and I'd rather not have the cookie jar presented to me in the first place and just enjoy the game.

For some reason I couldn't give much of a shit about tearing. It's annoying but not in a run for the hills kind of way.

(I also think I'm a bit biased against PCs as I grew up playing on them and now just enjoy the alternatives (plus that 4870x2 can kick out some serious heat).)

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I dunno, I've always bought carefully so I can get 60 in the games I want without overspending. If it's struggling at all, AA is the first thing I drop normally. I know what you mean though, when a game comes along with loads of options and no chance of banging everything on max (Crysis, Metro 2033 etc) I tend to spend an age fucking around in the options. It's the desire to avoid doing that which keeps me buying ahead of the curve. But the trick is to only just stay a couple of steps ahead, to maximise enjoyment. I'll never get why you'd want to spend money on squeezing superfluous performance out of something.

People probably think I hate consoles but I don't at all, I love the fact that "here is the game, get on with it, no settings to change here". Except when it runs like dogswater. It was really nice to play RDR for example, without constantly dicking around in the menus trying to tame that terribly raw engine.

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Surely with PC games being able to display games at higher frame rates, the game itself will only hard coded to poll the controller at a set frequency. So you might see the game at 120fps, but the controller input will only be checked 30 or 60 times a second.

So it might look smoother, but for actual gaming performance, not make the slightest difference.

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When the OS polls the mouse more often, I suppose when the game polls the mouse state, it's got a more accurate reading of how much the mouse has moved by since the last frame so it does count, but not as much as people think for these hardcore gaming mice imo.

It all counts though towards the overall experience.

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I've got a 3200DPI mouse, I put it up to max DPI and put the sensitivity in games/Windows really low, feels nice.

I only bought it because it has blue lights on which match my case though 8)

You can make Windows poll as many times a second as you want if you have the right drivers for your mouse installed. I assume the games look to Windows for the polling rate etc? Fuck knows. Boring topic. Change it!

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I didn't think the OS 'polled' the mouse at all, rather I thought it worked the other way around - the mouse creates an interrupt which makes the processor call the OS's mouse handling code, so the OS detects and responds to mouse movement practically instantaneously.

The game then finds the new mouse position every frame or whatever. I assume controllers work by the same principle.

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More boring than this whole thread? I don't think so. Anyway, games usually do a loop where they check input, update the game and then draw it. Sometimes some of these are done independently of each other and synchronised, but usually a game will poll input and update state at 30 or 60Hz

Am I right in saying that in most games the "tick" as they run their physics simulations, update the positions of objects in the gameworld and test for collisions is higher than the 60Hz rate at which they check controller inputs and update the screen?

Because presumably, in a racing game that displays times to 1/1000 of a second, if the game is only updating the cars' positions once per frame, the narrowest possible gap between two cars crossing the finish line will be one frame = 1/60s = 17ms. But if the simulation and the timer are genuinely both being updated 1000 times a second, two cars can cross the finishing line 1ms apart and the game will record their lap times correctly.

I remember when I used to time attack Burnout 2 on the PS2, which had a 1/1000s timer, a quirk of the game meant that when playing it in PAL 50Hz your lap times could only end in certain specific numbers after the decimal point, but in 60Hz, this was fixed. I suppose this was a case of the game employing both of the above methods of keeping track of the on-screen timer and end-of-race records, depending on which display mode you'd got selected.

Also, when stepping through Halo 3 recordings frame-by-frame, I noticed that when numerous objects are flying through the air (bodies, grenades, dropped weapons, sparks), some of these objects don't change position at all between frames. I took this as an indication that one of the developers' shortcuts to optimise performance was to update the less important objects and cosmetic effects less frequently than the important, collidable objects.

Have I got this right? :unsure:

theitcrowdmoss.jpg

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So does mine, I just pick blue :D

It's a Roccat Kone

kone-top.jpg

It's pretty shit tbh. Most exciting thing in the last page of this thread though!

NICE

I have this:

15401-5.jpg15401-1.jpg15401-4.jpg

It's called the 'Laser Gamer Mouse Elite GM-4800' but for some reason it has 'PREDATOR' written on it. It comes with 7 metal weights to customize your mouse weight, 3 DPI settings, 7 programmable buttons etc etc but the best thing is that the mousewheel glows either blue, red or green depending on which macro set you've selected, the DPI button also glows green, blue or red depending on its setting and the big fuck-off 'Trust' logo underneath the PREDATOR logo alternates between seven different colours whenever my PC is on :lol: The look on my girlfriends' face the first time she saw this beauty with all lights and stuff was priceless :lol:

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