Avatar 2 - The Way of Water Dec 2022

[pledge]

7 hours ago, jon_cybernet said:

Does anyone know if the BFI IMAX screenings at Waterloo are 3D and HFR? Helpfully it doesn’t seem to say on their website. 

It is defo 3D as I had to pay an extra £1 for glasses. Not sure about HFR.

[Loik V credern]

Critic impressions are in!

 

[PaB]

10 hours ago, Benny said:

I predict that this film will be an overwrought and relatively mediocre but enjoyable and lavish sci fi spectacle, like the first film, but that it will also do absolute gangbusters at the box office. But despite that it will also still not make anywhere near enough money to break even.

Conversely I predict  it’s going to be one of the top five highest grossing films of all time . It will easily make a profit 

[Sarlaccfood]

1 hour ago, Loik V credern said:

Critic impressions are in!

 

Haha nice inclusion of Bradshaw disliking it there. Looks like it’s gonna be a good ‘un!

[Bazjam]

Robbie Collin didn't seem keen either.

[IcEBuRN]

8 hours ago, PaB said:

Conversely I predict  it’s going to be one of the top five highest grossing films of all time . It will easily make a profit 

I think Cameron was quoted saying it needs to do 2 bills...I'm not sure it's gonna do that. 

 

I have my 4k 3d xplus tickets booked for 18th! 

[Benny]

"Sometimes I’d miss plot points because I’m staring at a Pandora fish".

 

To be honest, I don't see that as a positive.

[Loik V credern]

2 hours ago, Bazjam said:

Robbie Collin didn't seem keen either.

 

just this you mean? or something else? (while unlikely, you might know him and saw him down the pub yesterday or something)

 

All of Robbie Collin's reviews are behind a paywall so i've never read any of them. His ratings are at the top though i guess. Both him and Bradshaw really liked the Will Smith slavery film Emancipation (4 stars) which surprised me as it seems hokey.

 

All i'm doing is shitting on this, it's uncomfortable, i might be saying the same things over and over, i'm not sure. One last thing, i thought the visuals in Valerian were glorious, stuff like

 

 

probably because it's brief and the film contrasts so many different vivid environments rapidly and constantly.

[Benny]

I used that scene in Valerian to calibrate the colours on my TV.

 

Spoiler

So the film had some use I guess

 

Spoiler

 

 

[RubberJohnny]

I mean literally all the marketing has been, "you've got to see it because it'll be big", they're not even pretending it's something you want to see for it's story, just because it's a 'big' title that'll make lots of money, so I'm not exactly surprised by the reviews saying it's not very interesting, there's a reason they've not been focusing on it.

[Clipper]

That is the point of the event film isn't it. Noone really watches Titanic for the story do they?

 

I'm not keen on James Cameron as a director or creative visionary or whatever he is referred to as but he is a superb salesman and can produce an event movie like very few others can. Terminator is his best film with Aliens behind it a bit, after that the rest have been greater or lesser diminishing returns. Terminator was tight, thrilling, hokey and fun, Aliens was a good action take on the Alien mythos. Most of the rest of his films were bloated in one way or another and the stories got worse as they went on. The reason for that is despite what he says I don't think he is interested in telling stories, he is interested in the visual and the spectacle. The stories have felt bolted on since at least Titanic and possibly earlier. Technically he is a great director that can produce a great visual spectacle but he lacks something. He can make a lot of money however.

 

 

[DarhkFox]

9 hours ago, Clipper said:

That is the point of the event film isn't it. Noone really watches Titanic for the story do they?

 

 

The disaster aspect was a big appeal to me but I actually really enjoy the story aspect of it.

 

I've watched it many times over the years , if it wasn't I don't think I'd be happy watching it considering the "action" doesn't take place till halfway through the film.

[Stig]

22 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

Critic impressions are in!

 

 

I find myself disagreeing with Ehrlich on most things and Mike Ryan saying he couldn't concentrate on the plot doesn't bode well after the first films plot is its worst aspect.

[Loik V credern]

I tend to agree with Ehrlich on a lot of stuff actually though he adored the 2014 Godzilla and I can't not help use that as evidence he can't be trusted, he sees a lot in the film which i don't think is there but I guess that's the point of critics. Like poor characterisation and bland characters (because Edwards simply isn't good with working with actors) makes it the 'first post human blockbuster', 'a genuine spectacle of humility'. 

 

Avatar 2 is 14 minutes longer than LOTR Fellowship Of The Ring and 13 minutes longer than LOTR The Twin Towers, I'm kind of curious how it justifies it. Fellowship was paced so well the more it goes on I was gutted when it ended and would have to wait a year to see the journey continue. 

[IcEBuRN]

On 08/12/2022 at 13:06, Loik V credern said:

 

just this you mean? or something else? (while unlikely, you might know him and saw him down the pub yesterday or something)

 

All of Robbie Collin's reviews are behind a paywall so i've never read any of them. His ratings are at the top though i guess. Both him and Bradshaw really liked the Will Smith slavery film Emancipation (4 stars) which surprised me as it seems hokey.

 

All i'm doing is shitting on this, it's uncomfortable, i might be saying the same things over and over, i'm not sure. One last thing, i thought the visuals in Valerian were glorious, stuff like

 

 

probably because it's brief and the film contrasts so many different vivid environments rapidly and constantly.

Such an underrated film this. So many cool concepts and amazing visuals. 

[monkeydog]

26 minutes ago, IcEBuRN said:

Such an underrated film this. So many cool concepts and amazing visuals. 

 

It's rated about right. The cool stuff is dragged down by the stuff that isn't.  The Bowie backed opening is amongst my favourites though.

[Bazjam]

1 hour ago, IcEBuRN said:

Such an underrated film this. So many cool concepts and amazing visuals. 

Couldn't agree more. I've rewatched it many times, and always have a blast with it.

[Loik V credern]

Quote

"I walked in on the first day with the whole writer's room, and I plopped down 800 pages of notes, single-spaced," Cameron told ScreenRant in a new interview. "I said, 'Do your homework, and then we'll talk.'"

 

"The first thing I challenged them with was, 'Before we start talking about new stories, let's figure out how the first story worked. What were people keying into, what was working for them?'" He said. "We had a lot of discussions about that, and every idea we came up with as we went along had to measure up against that standard."

 

Of course, Cameron had a reason for assigning all that homework.

 

"[The story] had to hit the heart, had to hit the mind, had to hit the imagination, and it had to hit something even deeper, which we had a hard time quantifying," he explained. "Something you could call spiritual, or you could call subconscious. Some kind of connection that you can't even really describe in words. And I said, 'If we can't do that again, then we are going to fail.'"

 

"When I turned in the script for 3, they gave me a page of notes, so I was getting better," he said. "When I turned in the script for 4, the studio executive, creative executive over the films, wrote me an email that said, 'Holy f---.' And I said, 'Well, where are the notes?' And she said, 'Those are the notes.' Because it kind of goes nuts in a good way, right?"

 

Cameron also teased that the final film is one where "you think you know what it's about, and then, oh no, you don't," before adding, "I hope I get to make that film, is what I'm saying."

 

Cameron has a writing room? Films have writing rooms? I thought just tv shows with 10/15/20 hours to cover with lots of ideas for individual episodes to find. I can't think what any individual idea a writer could offer when it's driven by Cameron's broad storytelling. Says a lot though that his focus was on 'what were people keying into, what was working for them?' Maybe the room wasn't filled with writers but marketers, focus group researchers, psychologists. I wonder what's so incomprehensible about the story 9 hours in that leads to a holy fuck. That's not sarcasm, I do want to know. 

[Festoon]

9 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Cameron has a writing room? Films have writing rooms? I thought just tv shows with 10/15/20 hours to cover with lots of ideas for individual episodes to find. I can't think what any individual idea a writer could offer when it's driven by Cameron's broad storytelling. Says a lot though that his focus was on 'what were people keying into, what was working for them?' Maybe the room wasn't filled with writers but marketers, focus group researchers, psychologists. I wonder what's so incomprehensible about the story 9 hours in that leads to a holy fuck. That's not sarcasm, I do want to know. 

 

Wait until you hear about the MCU.

[Loik V credern]

22 hours ago, Festoon said:

Wait until you hear about the MCU.

 

That's the Marvel machine though. Though come to think of it I've never heard about any of the writers of those films. Only names I'm familiar with (not being that interested) is Kevin Feige and the directors, some who wrote their film as well. So looking, Christopher Markus and
Stephen McFeely wrote most of them? Then Chris McKenna and Erik Sommers for the more lighter humour filled mcu films (which I prefer). There's never anything truly brilliant or subversive about the scripts to get the attention like Lord and Miller or anything completely disastrous like Purvis and Wade. 

 

With Dave Spikey falling out with Peter Kay over his name being left out of the writing credit for Phoenix Nights despite him brainstorming ideas and researching (but Kay putting it all together), how does it work as when I see up to 3 names in 'written by' when a film ends I assume it's just those three (or 2, 1, there's not like 6-10 names though is there). With TV shows it's just the one name of the writer who like Kay put it altogether, or well specifically wrote the dialogue.

 

I always assumed everything Avatar was from Cameron alone and that was the point. He'd get scripts read of course and feedback, but writing rooms? No. I couldn't care less though. 

[Festoon]

6 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

That's the Marvel machine though. Though come to think of it I've never heard about any of the writers of those films. Only names I'm familiar with (not being that interested) is Kevin Feige and the directors, some who wrote their film as well. So looking, Christopher Markus and
Stephen McFeely wrote most of them? Then Chris McKenna and Erik Sommers for the more lighter humour filled mcu films (which I prefer). There's never anything truly brilliant or subversive about the scripts to get the attention like Lord and Miller or anything completely disastrous like Purvis and Wade. 

 

With Dave Spikey falling out with Peter Kay over his name being left out of the writing credit for Phoenix Nights despite him brainstorming ideas and researching (but Kay putting it all together), how does it work as when I see up to 3 names in 'written by' when a film ends I assume it's just those three (or 2, 1, there's not like 6-10 names though is there). With TV shows it's just the one name of the writer who like Kay put it altogether, or well specifically wrote the dialogue.

 

I always assumed everything Avatar was from Cameron alone and that was the point. He'd get scripts read of course and feedback, but writing rooms? No. I couldn't care less though. 

 

Right, but your assumption with Avatar is understandable as he's the 'face' of them but no one is writing and directing four technically monunental films.

 

It's a bit like 'Ed Sheeran writes his own songs' - yeah, maybe once he did, but there's a team now.

[monkeydog]

These are the named writers on Avatar 2: The Wetness

 

James Cameron 
Rick Jaffa
Amanda Silver  
Josh Friedman
Shane Salerno

 

One of them wrote Armageddon...

[JPL]

When are we expecting reviews for this? A friend of mine in Germany has said it's out tomorrow over there.

[sammy]

Should be dropping 5pm UK time

[Floyd]

I didn't really enjoy the first one much. It looked great visually but as soon as unobtainium was mentioned, i think my eyes started rolling. Not seen it in years!  I'll give the 2nd film a go though as i've still got a few free cinema tickets. 

[Ork1927]

My kids still haven’t watched first one and I dunno when we’d fit the 3 hours plus trip in over Christmas anyway so I was going to go to an early morning show Friday to get it seen.

 

But Cardiff Cineworld is shut due to heating issues plus train strike if it does reopen so I dunno now.

 

Want to go see it as I’ve seen pretty much everything else at the cinema this year, but that long runtime is a real pain especially as it seems pointless to not see it on a decent sized screen.

[Pob]

I've really no idea which way this is going to go. I'm not into Avatar but I'm fascinated to see how this turns out. It seems like it's got a clear run at the cinema with no competition so I'm sure it'll do well.

 

The 3hr+ runtime is the main thing that'll stop us going to see this. We watched Avatar a few months back, first time I'd seen it since the cinema I think, and it was just okay. Not like when you catch Titanic on TV at Christmas and think "this is a bit bloody good actually". My wife and son weren't particularly impressed - a stark contrast to when we watched Jurassic Park a few weeks earlier.

 

I asked my wife if she'd be up for going last night and she said "I'd be interested if it didn't have all those blue people". Bit racist but sums it up really.

[SpagMasterSwift]

I always thought that Avatar was the geeky sci-fi movie that the normals went to see because they were told they should due to Titanic. I'm not convinced they'll fall for the same shit again, but then they are pretty thick on the whole...

[pledge]

Do the general public check run times before they go to the cinema? I cant see the 3 hours putting them off as they wont be aware but may surprise them

[Loik V credern]

8 hours ago, Festoon said:

Right, but your assumption with Avatar is understandable as he's the 'face' of them but no one is writing and directing four technically monunental films.

 

Why not? It's always said the reason why this second film has taken so long to arrive is because Cameron was writing the scripts for all 4 of the films. I know scripts take a long time to write but it's been 13 years and not all scripts take long, and none of 

 

8 hours ago, Festoon said:

It's a bit like 'Ed Sheeran writes his own songs' - yeah, maybe once he did, but there's a team now.

 

It's just different though with music when a songwriter enters the studio and various producers throw in ideas because the singer might just have the melody and some basic piano playing to compliment it and the producer with his army of effects and samples and whatever will bring something else. Or they collaborate so often with other artists.

 

Rewrites were always a thing that was mentioned about films, an actor isn't happy to commit until the script gets reworked, or the situation with World War Z, an entirely different ending. Even when I watch a bad film, when it states it was written by one writer I'd like to think it was at least individual and personal to them. I watched Stay recently and hated it really then laughed when 'written by David Benioff' appeared at the end, I hope he at least got something from writing it because there was nothing in it for me. 

 

I mean it totally makes sense Avatar has been focus grouped to death, manufactured to within an inch of its life to make sure it appeals to as many people as possible as it exists to just hoover up money but it undermines the attention on Cameron being this single-minded auteur director who knows better than everyone else and couldn't be any more confident in his vision. He never gives the impression he cares about others opinions when it comes to ..anything really.

 

Literally him mentioning the writing room is framed like 'oh I had to let them know they had to educate themselves on the sheer depth of Avatar before even bothering to offer anything, are you fully comprehending what was achieved here guys??' As though he only brought them on board to marvel at his achievement. Because the wording is they were brought in for these sequels, there was no writers room in the same way before, unless he brought in a load of new writers. 

 

sorry I'm shit talking, I get why you'd want help on 4 films. It all seems a bit personal. Like when Ridley Scott read Pauline Kael's review of Bladerunner and was so hurt by how often she mentioned his name in the review he brought it up 40 years later as 'she hadn't even met me!' 

 

Family want to see this so I might as well. Sit in the dark and eat sweets.