Rip-off tossers

[Sledge]

No, I mean Idigicon's stuff has been cracked and if you search hard enough you can unlock the demos for free.

So? What does that have to do with me? (Except that I wish someone had told me and saved me a tenner.)

So what is it you're bitching about, exactly? You've accused me of over-reacting, yet now you say my actions won't do them any harm at all. Which is it?

Christ you're hard work when you want to be. You misunderstood and continue to misunderstand what I'm "bitching" about, probably completely deliberately too. I don't give a toss that you posted "their" game on your site... it's an inconsequential act due to (i) cracks already being available and (ii) sales "lost" to piracy being largely nothing of the sort (as you yourself have been arguing for yonks).

I'm just disappointed, basically, that you couldn't be more patient and less inflammatory. JPickford is very well regarded by 99% of Blitzers, if you'd just bothered to ask around, it's very likely that a quiet settling of your differences with Demon Star could have been arranged. Maybe, wanting to see small start-ups flourish in the right direction, you could have made a few suggestions as to what to change... how well received do you think that would have been? "Stu Campbell himself took the time to give us some pointers, fucking cool!"

But nah, fuckit. Let's hold them to the very letter of their world-famous response time, stoke up a baying mob and ride that "wild man of games journalism" ticket one more time, dragging this multinational (hey, it's the internet age) evil to everyone's attention in the process. It's so much more constructive that way.

You haven't learned, in all this time, have you Stu, that it doesn't matter how much research you do, how insightful you are, or how many salient articles you write for Indie... the games industry is never going to fucking listen to sense, much less express any open appreciation for your brutal honesty. The people that will pay attention and are willing to benefit from any guidance you can offer are the outfits like Demon Star (who, being barely professional, may very well make a complete and utter balls up of things from time to time). But that's not going to happen if you're too busy steamrollering over them, driving up walls of bad blood, to be of any use. I mean, you do want to be of use to folk, right?

This whole episode just gives me a great sense of an opportunity lost. Very sad.

EDIT: Changed Develop for Indie, seeing as I'm only 100% sure you've written for one of them.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

I'm just disappointed, basically, that you couldn't be more patient and less inflammatory. JPickford is very well regarded by 99% of Blitzers, if you'd just bothered to ask around, it's very likely that a quiet settling of your differences with Demon Star could have been arranged.

They're settled now, as far as I'm concerned. If you want a job doing, do it yourself.

How long would you have had me wait for these ignorant dicks to offer the basic courtesy of a reply to a serious allegation? (It's now been three days, despite their "24-hour" promise.) A week? A month? Armageddon? What's YOUR definition of "reasonable" here?

But nah, fuckit. Let's hold them to the very letter of their world-famous response time, stoke up a baying mob and ride that "wild man of games journalism" ticket one more time

This isn't journalism, though, is it?

As for "wild", you don't know what I put in the original email. It was short, mildly sarcastic, non-threatening and non-abusive. It was and continues to be ignored. As for what I've said here, so what? They obviously don't read this forum, so it doesn't matter. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone so half-arsed about their job that they don't check their email - their only given business point of contact - in three days (especially when they also go to the trouble of explicitly specifying a response time, which they then can't be bothered to uphold) doesn't deserve it anyway.

You haven't learned, in all this time, have you Stu, that it doesn't matter how much research you do, how insightful you are, or how many salient articles you write for Indie... the games industry is never going to fucking listen to sense, much less express any open appreciation for your brutal honesty.

Anyone who thinks I "haven't learned" that particular fact clearly doesn't know the first thing about me, and hence ideally wouldn't be spouting off about what I do and don't know. What does any of that stuff have to do with this situation anyway?

The people that will pay attention and are willing to benefit from any guidance you can offer are the outfits like Demon Star (who, being barely professional, may very well make a complete and utter balls up of things from time to time). But that's not going to happen if you're too busy steamrollering over them, driving up walls of bad blood, to be of any use. I mean, you do want to be of use to folk, right?

Not to ripoff merchants selling other people's free work for money, no.

[Dimahoo]

In fairness, Stu did do a poll.

Not only that, but option 4 has risen in number from last nights 30 odd (okay so has all the other options)

But he made the decision based on that.

Edit : to add, the softest option is the least favourable.

Also the decision to sue would be Codemasters, not Stu's.

He's acting as a messenger.

[Rin]

I'm a fence sitter on this. Whilst I think there's a strong point to be made about 'hobbiests' turning their effort into profit, it's definitely not right to rip off every aspect of a game and sell it as your own.

Taking Stuarts word for it that the game is nearly identykit, for these people take the credit for a game that isn't there's is clearly wrong. And they would be aware that they have copied this game and left it uncredited.

I'm not sure how it pans out legally, but I think it's fair enough to approach this publisher and ask them to make the game freeware and credited. I know if my own work had been blatently copied and sold uncredited for profit, I wouldn't be happy. I think Stuart's being perfectly fair about it.

[Rin]

When I released the demo of Sticky Balls a few people claimed it was ripped off from E-Motion on the Amiga (it isn't) based on a couple of similar game elements.

I only said it reminded me of E-Motion

I few people said worse. Like "I played this exact game 12 years ago".

Incidently, I was playing E-Motion a few weeks ago. It's nothing like Sticky Balls really. You can tell each game has different roots and aspects quite clearly. Only in screenshot form is there similarities. Like Tetris and Dr Mario... maybe...

[Alex W.]

Someone created a football game a while ago. You know what? Someone released one just like it a few months later! Isn't that terrible?

[Dimahoo]

Someone created a football game a while ago. You know what? Someone released one just like it a few months later! Isn't that terrible?

Yes but E.A. doesn't count. They're the same company.

Still a ripoff though.

[Alex W.]

You know, it's been about a decade. There's a chance that someone might have just come up with the same idea independently, by thinking down the same paths. It happens surprisingly often.

[Dimahoo]

I've not dl'ed (or payed for) the thing but its said to play very similar.

All i can say is, many of these small companies create games that rip off other titles, whether they're dead genres or not.

They never give credit to the original programmers and if your a programmer who's created something rather orignal (as the game was) then its painful to see your work being sold with you receiving no profit or even credit.

Whats worse is the price they charge for that game. A budget game is (generally) far better in quailty and cheaper so again we come around to the pricing argument too.

That game was brought to my attention by a train-game fan on another forum and having never seen the orignal game, posted the fact that as silly as it is, at least it was trying to be orignal. Seemingly.

Now the game has been posted on a forum on one of the biggest train-game site in the UK, and with train-fans being one of the fastest rising PC gaming fan bases, the programmers will get much credit, and will proberly extend the idea and make more cash.

But what of the orignal programmer?

Incidently - I can't rememeber what happened in the Great Ghana Sister case.

I think the game got pulled but was that it?

[Alex W.]

Has anyone figured out how it plays from anything other than the screenshots? Just out of curiousity.

[Dimahoo]

The comments about that elsewhere in the post.

[Alex W.]

So I see. Well, you can chalk it up to creative convergence (it's an amazingly simple concept, and about the most obvious one for a trainspotting game) or give yourself an ulcer and offend a few people trying to get some kid's intermittent income cut off. Take your pick, Rev, but you're becoming increasingly difficult to take seriously as the legal voice of gaming.

[The Liberal Elite]

In fairness, Stu did do a poll.

Not only that, but option 4 has risen in number from last nights 30 odd (okay so has all the other options)

But he made the decision based on that.

Edit : to add, the softest option is the least favourable.

Also the decision to sue would be Codemasters, not Stu's.

He's acting as a messenger.

Like some cretinous mob baying for blood.

I like Stuart's biased polls. he gets to say that the majority are in favour of X when it's so fucking obvious that they've been led their by weight of his 'arguements'.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

I like Stuart's biased polls.  he gets to say that the majority are in favour of X when it's so fucking obvious that they've been led their by weight of his 'arguements'.

Oh no! Persuading people with the weight of my arguments! What a bastard!

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Has anyone figured out how it plays from anything other than the screenshots?

Y'know, if you can't be bothered to even skim the basics of a thread, maybe you shouldn't start shouting the odds in it.

So I see. Well, you can chalk it up to creative convergence

If I was a braindead fuckwit and/or still believed in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, yes.

or give yourself an ulcer and offend a few people trying to get some kid's intermittent income cut off.

Oh, right, now it's "some kid". Anything else I should know? I suppose he's a tiny crippled orphan too? (As opposed to, say, five grown adults.) Broken home, maybe? Daddy didn't hug him enough? Fuck right off.

Several days later, I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how this is ANY different to someone on a market stall selling pirated games.

[NumberSix]

Several days later, I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how this is ANY different to someone on a market stall selling pirated games.

Well, what they've done is use your idea to make their own game.

World of difference right there.

[SeanR]

In fairness, Stu did do a poll.

Not only that, but option 4 has risen in number from last nights 30 odd (okay so has all the other options)

But he made the decision based on that.

Edit : to add, the softest option is the least favourable.

Also the decision to sue would be Codemasters, not Stu's.

He's acting as a messenger.

Like some cretinous mob baying for blood.

I like Stuart's biased polls. he gets to say that the majority are in favour of X when it's so fucking obvious that they've been led their by weight of his 'arguements'.

It has to be noted that it was I that added option 4 to the poll after it was aired by the rev and became a popular "non-choice" for some people (see first page)

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Well, what they've done is use your idea to make their own game.

That's not what they've done at all. We've been over this several times already.

[NumberSix]

That's not what they've done at all. We've been over this several times already.

Fair enough, I thought they had. I sort of switched off after five pages or so. Looked like that's what they'd done to me though.

If not, I say you should burn them. Burn them good.

[The Liberal Elite]

I like Stuart's biased polls.  he gets to say that the majority are in favour of X when it's so fucking obvious that they've been led their by weight of his 'arguements'.

Oh no! Persuading people with the weight of my arguments! What a bastard!

It should be pointed out that this is a one sided argument, of course. And even with your poll, and the one option tending towards leniency, you couldn't help but put in a little comment about how they've ripped you off.

No, they haven't responded yet, which is a bit silly, if I were them, I wouldn't bother. the decision has been made for htem anyway by this absurd kangeroo court.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

It should be pointed out that this is a one sided argument, of course.

Whose fault is that?

Anyway, we can always rely on obsessive Campbell-haters like yourself to put the opposite case. Even if my argument was "water is wet".

[marsh]

It should be pointed out that this is a one sided argument, of course.

Whose fault is that?

Anyway, we can always rely on obsessive Campbell-haters like yourself to put the opposite case. Even if my argument was "water is wet".

I don't think that's the case at all.

You've gone from 'Piracy is ace and hurts nobody' to 'how dare the steal my poorly conceived idea, execute it in a fashion worse than I did and make off with the paltry earnings gained from me buying the game'

Here's something to consider.

Why not buff up the original, add some more features, and then distribute it for nowt?. You really want to piss on their chips then that's the best thing to do I reckon.

As it stands I'd put money on it that they know all abouut this thread, and really could not give a rats about what it is you've done.

[Sledge]

If you want a job doing, do it yourself.

And end up with a less ideal outcome than would have otherwise been the case in all probability.

How long would you have had me wait for these ignorant dicks to offer the basic courtesy of a reply to a serious allegation?

Two weeks, in which time you would make several attempts to communicate. Should the case go the distance, this would benefit you as it's an absolutely reasonable period of time by anyone's definition, not just Demon Star's obviously optimistic promise. During this time the forum wouldn't hear about it, there would be no ridiculous rhetorical vote and no piracy (two wrongs don't make a right, I belive you state in your Friendly Advice... series).

you don't know what I put in the original email.

Which is why I'm not talking about it. I'm talking about the tenor you've adopted here, the way Demon Star is automatically an enemy to be conquered and not a misguided example of amateurish publishing that you could afford to chill the fuck out about and lend a hand to.

Anyone who thinks I "haven't learned" that particular fact clearly doesn't know the first thing about me

Which fact? I mentioned two facts. I know you're aware that the industry would generally prefer it if you kindly fucked off and stopped peskily making sense. That you're being so pissy about Demon Star clearly shows you haven't the faintest grasp on what you might achieve with them via a less abrasive approach.

Of course they might really be genuinely horrible and unappreciative... in which case you can always fall back on this watertight copyright infringement case of yours. Fact is, you can afford to be the bigger man, so why not be, eh?

Not to ripoff merchants selling other people's free work for money, no.

The idea is still to stop them being "ripoff merchants", if that's what they are. The question is do you want to create embittered and ostracised ex-ripoff merchants or encouraged and enthused ex-ripoff merchants?

I should mention also that I was under the impression that you could download the game from Idigicon but they don't appear to carry it, so a tenner "well spent" after all.

[The Liberal Elite]

It should be pointed out that this is a one sided argument, of course.

Whose fault is that?

Anyway, we can always rely on obsessive Campbell-haters like yourself to put the opposite case. Even if my argument was "water is wet".

Stop being so bloody paranoid. The problem with you is that your ego is the size of the moon.

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, in fact, you've said things that I've agreed with in the past. however, I'm not going to sit and read the bile pouring forth from your fingertips and say nothing and/or just take what you have to say at your word.

[DemonStar]

Hi guys,

This thread has been brought to my attention, so I will now respond to the best of my ability.

Firstly, about "Train Tracking". Strangely enough, a half-assed Blitz Basic homebrew game about trainspotting hasn't generated enough interest or cash to allow Demon Star staff to pay off their mortages and buy Ferraris. No one is getting rich from this. Two copies have been sold to date, and that was to my mum and my girlfriend.

Mr. Campbell, I propose a deal. You stop moaning about someone stealing your precious game design gem (after all, how many ways can you make a game about train spotting!?) and I'll avoid calling the authorities about the many thousands of ROMs and stolen software you no doubt have stashed at your home.

Kind regards

Demon Star

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Hi guys,

This thread has been brought to my attention, so I will now respond to the best of my ability.

Firstly, about "Train Tracking". Strangely enough, a half-assed Blitz Basic homebrew game about trainspotting hasn't generated enough interest or cash to allow Demon Star staff to pay off their mortages and buy Ferraris. No one is getting rich from this. Two copies have been sold to date, and that was to my mum and my girlfriend.

Mr. Campbell, I propose a deal. You stop moaning about someone stealing your precious game design gem (after all, how many ways can you make a game about train spotting!?) and I'll avoid calling the authorities about the many thousands of ROMs and stolen software you no doubt have stashed at your home.

Kind regards

Demon Star

Riiiiight.

[Dude Ranch]

If I hang around long enough will I see Campbell have a heart attack? I can feel the glow of his face from here !

Think of your blood pressure Stu, it's not worth it.

[SeanR]

Comedy poster?

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Comedy poster?

I reckon.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Mr. Campbell, I propose a deal. You stop moaning about someone stealing your precious game design gem (after all, how many ways can you make a game about train spotting!?) and I'll avoid calling the authorities about the many thousands of ROMs and stolen software you no doubt have stashed at your home.

Uh-huh. Sure.

You can call anyone you like, "Demon Star". I've got nothing to hide.