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Is Nintendo losing its magic??


yakumo
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Stop being a fool, EAD is not Nintendo's only team.  :D Silicon Knights is part of Nintendo now.

Stop being a fool, that doesn't mean that they are Nintendo, they're Silicon Knights.

Ah but what if they ditched the name and it came under EAD US or something.

It's like Westwood aren't Westwood they're part of the EA conglomerate, only difference is they couldn't keep the name.

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Luigi & Zelda were not made on\for N64.   ED was.

I said in the time of, not FOR. sighhhhh. Like they were being developed for the gamecube before the gamecube was out.

So what is your point?

Luigi is CLEARLY a tech demo for the GC. I suspect it only became a game at a fairly late stage.

Zelda WW engine is all new - it's way more than a 'filter'. The graphics engine is astonishing. Admittedly the game wasn't properly finished, same with Mario Sunshine.

It seems to me no coincidence that this generation is the only time Nintendo have rush-released not quite finished games. Both Zelda & Mario (more so) suffer from this.

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Imagine if you had never played  Z:OoT, or Majora's mask, or SM64, or MK64. You would think SMS, Z:TWW and MK:DD are absolutely fantastic games - As it is, most of have played Z:OoT, Majora's mask, SM64 & MK64. So the GC titles seem to have lost an indefinable something that made them so great. Instead we are left with what feels like "updates". The same game again, just prettier, and not quite as fresh and new as it was when we first played them on the N64.

i just think that Ocarina/Majora's and Mario 64 are much better games than their Gamecube counterparts. we could go into why but we've done it before so many times... still good games though. we still love Nintendo.

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Nintendo seem fine for me but I would like a 2D Mario platform game on Gamecube.

I don't know how it compare to Nintendo games in the past but I enjoyed Mario Bros 3 and Mario and Luigi as well as Mario Kart Double Dash.

I already got 7 N64 US version games at home and I can't play with them until my Jungle Green N64 is delivered. (Probably held in the Custom office, and they are having too much fun with it)

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Imagine if you had never played  Z:OoT, or Majora's mask, or SM64, or MK64. You would think SMS, Z:TWW and MK:DD are absolutely fantastic games - As it is, most of have played Z:OoT, Majora's mask, SM64 & MK64. So the GC titles seem to have lost an indefinable something that made them so great. Instead we are left with what feels like "updates". The same game again, just prettier, and not quite as fresh and new as it was when we first played them on the N64.

i just think that Ocarina/Majora's and Mario 64 are much better games than their Gamecube counterparts. we could go into why but we've done it before so many times... still good games though. we still love Nintendo.

Yes, they are, I agree. However, certainly in the case of SM64 we were spoiled with what is arguably (and generally accepted as being) the finest videogame ever made. That was some act to follow.

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Stop being a fool, EAD is not Nintendo's only team.  :D Silicon Knights is part of Nintendo now.

Stop being a fool, that doesn't mean that they are Nintendo, they're Silicon Knights.

That's like saying "that doesn't mean that they are Nintendo, they're EAD" about the team that make Mario. Nintendo is just a publisher.

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It seems to me no coincidence that this generation is the only time Nintendo have rush-released not quite finished games. Both Zelda & Mario (more so) suffer from this.

Yes, I agree, that's why I think it's a good thing that the next Mario is rumoured to be in development for the next Nintendo console. Nintendo has lost some of its magic this generation: the insane amount of gameplay tweaking that they did after a game was developed. The basic game engines are still a joy to play, e.g. Mario still controls better than any other character; it's fun to just run around jumping up trees and stuff.

What happened to Mario Club? Weren't they really strict on gameplay testing (other game companies don't seem to have ever really bothered with this)?

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This does not mean that Nintendo games are more suited tot a younger audience, it just means that the Nintendo Magic is alive and kicking to less jaded eyes.

I'm not buying this really, as I still see the Nintendo Magic in their GBA products, games like Metroid Prime (and indeed Luigi's, which is great) and in the old N64 products. When I got Zelda WW I spend more time on the OOT/Masterquest bonusdisc than on WW itself. Because it's brilliant, cinematic and atmospheric. Something Wind Waker lacked sorely in my eyes. I know a lot of people loved it to death, but I find it easily the worst Zelda game ever. And astonishing as the graphics engine may be, I thought it looked like flat, soulless crap. Not because of the cellshading, but because of design. I love the way Viewtiful Joe plays around with the cellshading for example.

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Nintendo need to buck up their ideas. Now they know that they can't forever rely on the likes of Mario, Zelda, Kirby etc. to keep themselves alive. The negative reactions to their latest projects only go to suggest that things will most definetely not remain peachy forever. And yes, I am talking about games like Zelda: Wind Waker and Mariokart: DD, because they both had problems with them. Some may dispute that MK:DD does not, but you can't argue that it is to everyone's taste (need I go on?).

Their attitude to hiring out 1.5 party support is, in my opinion, a very good thing. Allowing others to make new things out of old franchises but with the fresh perspective from another's eyes (Mario & Luigi, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX). However, they should create their own new content along the lines of Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin, as whilst these were ultimately flawed in a big way (length), it shows a more open approach as to what can be included in it's new games.

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Nintendo isn't in the position to delay their games for months anymore unfortunately. :D The competition's too tight, if they were still leading the industry then Mario and Zelda would've been a bit more complete (MK:DD is perfect though).

flyingxmas.gif

:D Love the Christmas hat you've put on him.

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And astonishing as the graphics engine may be, I thought it looked like flat, soulless crap.

Wow - I can't disagree more with this. Wind Waker may have lacked some gameplay elements to make it perfect, but being souless? I thought it was the most charming looking game I've seen in years, plus was able to express emotion better than anything I've seen. It also had some genuinely spine tingling moments, for example (SPOILER REMOVED)

As for Ocarina, I hate the ugly character design (all huge noses and big ears), and much prefered the look of Wind Waker which was much truer to the 2D Zelda games IMHO.

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1. And yes, I am talking about games like Zelda: Wind Waker and Mariokart: DD, because they both had problems with them. Some may dispute that MK:DD does not, but you can't argue that it is to everyone's taste (need I go on?).

2. Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin, as whilst these were ultimately flawed in a big way (length)

1. I think most people will take fault with Zelda being flawed, the only thing wrong with it was some people didn't like the sailing. I did it was like a proper adventure game.

2. Luigi's Mansion is the perfect length. It's not too short. I've finished it 3 times just because it is the length it is. Sure it should've retailed for £20 at first but it was wonderful.

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It also had some genuinely spine tingling moments, for example when you go to                  for the first time.

.

holster that spoiler private. Double time!

How long after a game's released do I have to worry about spoilers BTW?

PS: Darth Vader is Luke's father.

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It also had some genuinely spine tingling moments, for example when you go to                  for the first time.

.

holster that spoiler private. Double time!

How long after a game's released do I have to worry about spoilers BTW?

PS: Darth Vader is Luke's father.

The game was released this year, Star Wars in 1977. Many people will be getting one for xmas and some haven't got around to playing it yet. I myself bought it on launch but only got around to finishing it last week.

Besides it is a pretty huge spoiler, it would remove a lot of the magic.

This is a thread about Nintendo losing it's magic not to look back at Wind Waker so someone could stumble along it.

Please be courteous to your fellow gamers

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Wind Waker did what it did quite well, it just wasn't the direction I'd like the series to go. I would have prefered the art direction of a game like Ico for it. What I always liked about the Zelda games was the feeling that there was a secret behind every tree, wall or patch of grass. In Wind Waker I didn't have this feeling of mystery and atmosphere at all.

But it's just my pet hate, I don't say it's bad. Just that it didn't do it for me. To get back OT, when I'm playing Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga I'm really having old-fashioned fun and genuine laughing-out-loud moments. I'd like to see more of that super-well-crafted, surprising, highly polished, fresh and amusing moments in Nintendo's GameCube titles. Surprise me Nintendo, don't give me the stuff I've done so many times before!

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Well, Sunshine and Wind Waker left me very cold indeed. Though I have to admit not being the greatest Zelda fan in the world anyway, SM64 is still one of my favourite titles. I'm not too concerned about the various updates around at the moment, but I will pick up F-Zero simply because it's another of my long-term favourites, right from the SNES version. I would have said the established series and characters were starting to lack that particular element of fun.

But....I have just started playing Superstar Saga, and all the magic is there. I'm having a blast.

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Wind Waker did what it did quite well, it just wasn't the direction I'd like the series to go. I would have prefered the art direction of a game like Ico for it. What I always liked about the Zelda games was the feeling that there was a secret behind every tree, wall or patch of grass. In Wind Waker I didn't have this feeling of mystery and atmosphere at all.

Personally I don't think the grainy grey washed out look of ICO would have looked in place in Zelda at all, even though I love ICO. Zelda has never been about realism, it's a cartoony adventure game, even Ocarina is (look at the character designs).

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I think we're missing the central issue here: Is Marmite losing it's magic?

Well, really, Nintendo are either losing 'this' or losing 'that'. I agree that the rushing of games was not a good move, but Nintendo have learnt their lesson now, judging by the responses of the gaming community, so they're going to book the next 6 years for a new Mario and Zelda.*

*Could well be a lie, but you know what I mean.

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Mario & Luigi... Wario Ware...

Hmmm, maybe that's the thing.

Mario & Luigi and Wario Ware both came out of nowhere, both took next to no time to develop, use simple concepts and are hugely entertaining.

But Nintendo's GameCube content takes years to produce. They are long, often overcomplicated and often unfinished to fit in with demands of post-Sony release schedules.

It's the GameCube that is making Nintendo rubbish. It's too powerful. Nintendo are at their strongest when making relatively games which push hardware to the limit, but in order to make games like that for the GC would take years - years they just don't have.

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Mario & Luigi and Wario Ware both came out of nowhere, both took next to no time to develop, use simple concepts and are hugely entertaining.

Out of interest how do you know how long both these games took to develop?

OK Mario and Luigi wasn't publicised until recently, but it could have been in development for years for all we know.

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Well, for me, being an oldskool hardcore Nintendo fan, I can't shake this nagging feeling that the Gamecube is some sort of 'half-way house' between the N64 and its true hardware succssor. Lazy updates, the odd moment of fun, and rushed software simply not up there with the N64 greats.

Nintendo sort of remind me of SEGA now, great games, but something missing. Know wot I mean?

Hey, way to piss off Nintendo AND Sega fans. :D

Also, they aren't the powerhouse of innovation they once were. Are they playing things too safe?

It's odd that all the really quirky, original and innovation games seem to be coming from the Sony camp, whilst Nintendo seem happy to release 'safe' same old same (and not quite as good either). I've just seen PGR2 on X-box and it's bloody amazing, walking around showrooms - the whole 'live' thing - really, really next gen stuff. Don't even mention 'Eyetoy', let alone any sort of dancing family game.

The only 'innovation' Nintendo have had this generation is the incredibly cynical GBA 'link-up' which has never lived up to it's promise anyway (the whole concept being pretty much swept under the carpet now, 'cept for a once high profile title now being bundled with a full price release).

I'll just finish with this - My youngest son of 9, is playing, or has played through Z:TWW, SMS, MK:DD etc, and he thinks they are absolutley great - He played N64 games when he was younger, but was too young to appreciate them. This does not mean that Nintendo games are more suited tot a younger audience, it just means that the Nintendo Magic™ is alive and kicking to less jaded eyes.

Which is a good point. Perhaps when some moot that the 'Nintendo Magic' has gone, maybe they only mean for those who've been Nintendo gaming for a couple of generations or so? Not that that's any consolation for long-term Nintendo loyalists (and I'll even include myself in that description).

Nintendo: D+ Could, and can do much better. Perhaps brighter things are on the horizon?

All that said, I'm still keeping the faith.

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Imagine if you had never played  Z:OoT, or Majora's mask, or SM64, or MK64. You would think SMS, Z:TWW and MK:DD are absolutely fantastic games - As it is, most of have played Z:OoT, Majora's mask, SM64 & MK64. So the GC titles seem to have lost an indefinable something that made them so great. Instead we are left with what feels like "updates". The same game again, just prettier, and not quite as fresh and new as it was when we first played them on the N64.

i just think that Ocarina/Majora's and Mario 64 are much better games than their Gamecube counterparts. we could go into why but we've done it before so many times... still good games though. we still love Nintendo.

and i feel the opposite. i think the big N get better with each new platform they bring out. roll on GC2

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Mario & Luigi... Wario Ware...

Hmmm, maybe that's the thing.

Mario & Luigi and Wario Ware both came out of nowhere, both took next to no time to develop, use simple concepts and are hugely entertaining.

If you want to be really anal, Wario Ware (made by Tresure Inc.) was years in the making. Years to get together all those sub game ideas (maybe?). Years for such games to exist to pull little chunks from (the mini-Nintendo games). And, the game's premise is based upon quick bursts of what we've been playing all our lives.

Wario Ware: geeeenius.

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