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Just A Bit Of Harmless Fun?


Robo_1
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Quite surprised everyone here is disagreeing with the article. I think it's pretty much on the money. There's certainly no doubt that the portrayal of women in videogames could stand a bit of an overhaul.

I don't think anybody is arguing about that, it's just that Duke Nukem, a knowingly puerile game that's an over the top parody of an 80's alpha-male beefcake hero probably isn't the one to target. Here's a recent one he could have made a point about the portrayal of women in games and I wouldn't have said anything - Homefront. That game takes itself ever, ever so seriously; the devs have been banging on for months about how plausible their ludicrous scenario is (we consulted the CIA don't cha'know), it starts off real-life news footage, you get to watch various atoricities (parents getting killed in front of their screaming toddler for instance), then you get saved by the resistance... of course the token woman resistance fighter is wearing a midriff baring top and tight low-slung jeans, because obviously that's what you'd want to wear into battle, and everytime you have to crawl through a space when she's about (which is more often than you might expect) you're forced to wait for her to go first seemingly only so you can stare at her wiggling arse.

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I don't think anybody is arguing about that, it's just that Duke Nukem, a knowingly puerile game that's an over the top parody of an 80's alpha-male beefcake hero probably isn't the one to target.

I hear what you're saying, but a) I don't think it being obviously satirical is really any excuse at all, and b) no matter what game you target there's always gonna be a worse one. If they went on about Homefront you could say "why are they complaining about this when Battle Raper exists", etc.

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I skimmed through it this morning and was surprised that the comments section was over 300 pages.

Seems like he is only seeing what he wants to see.

It was okay to kill defenseless alien infested women in the original Duke 3D. This is a guy who took a shit down an enemies throat while catching up on the news. No one is taking a new Duke Nukem game seriously.

Also Day 1!

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Duke Nukem is quite obviously a satirical character in nature.

As for feminazis who don't give a shit while men who are all portrayed as muscle ripped alpha males slaughter thousands of other men, but scream sexist when there's a girl with a pair of tits in a video game,

The men portrayed as muscle ripped alpha males are primarily appealing to men :eyebrows:

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Didn't Gears of War 2 have a mode like this but instead of playfully slapping them on the bottom, you smash their face in and take them back to base? Capture the meat flag or something. I'd rather a butt slap from Duke than get knocked unconcious by the completely heterosexual duo.

Also, videogames aren't real.

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Quite surprised everyone here is disagreeing with the article. I think it's pretty much on the money. There's certainly no doubt that the portrayal of women in videogames could stand a bit of an overhaul.

Sure, but focusing his attention on Duke Nukem in order to reinforce that point is hopelessly misguided. Even he understands that this is a franchise that shouldn't be taken seriously, and that the game's sexism is ‘part of the appeal’. Yet for no apparent reason, this particular multiplayer mode is something that should be taken out of context and viewed in an entirely different light from the rest of the game.

The defence, already mooted very publicly by hugely popular webcomic and arbitrator of gaming taste Penny-Arcade, is that hey - in Call of Duty you slaughter thousands, so how is slapping a girl to calm her down in Duke Nukem Forever "offensive"?

It's a persuasive argument. It's also stupid and disingenuous. The slaughter of thousands by an improbable super-soldier is pretty blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy. Slapping women? That's something which, sadly, happens every day in countless households around the world.

Somewhere along the line, he seems to have forgotten that Duke Nukem is also 'pretty blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy'.

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I dunno I regulary play capture the flag with my mate's girlfriends and thanks to this game the boundaries are now getting blurred, do I slap them if they complain as I'm hauling them back to camp? Is it acceptable, I mean the Duke's a pretty cool guy... What do I do? :unsure:

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A deeper question here is: why should videogames have to be restrained to realistic portrayals of groups? Even those in this thread who disagree with this Eurogamer idiot say that games need to "do better" in how they portray women, but why?

It strikes me that games aren't meant to represent average people, for the same reason that films and literature aren't meant to represent average people: average people are boring, and art is designed to be exciting. James Bond, Solid Snake, Super Mario, JC Denton... all of the best characters don't realistically portray men, and thank fuck for that.

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It strikes me that games aren't meant to represent average people, for the same reason that films and literature aren't meant to represent average people: average people are boring, and art is designed to be exciting. James Bond, Solid Snake, Super Mario, JC Denton... all of the best characters don't realistically portray men, and thank fuck for that.

This, actually.

Is a man no longer allowed to slap a girl's bottom on a movie, for example, or should this be outlawed too?

How about the new American pie sequel? I bet that has an arse slap or two.

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In Black Ops there's an interactive torture section where you beat a man tied to a chair before smashing a window, placing the broken glass in his mouth as he tries to resist, then punching him the face and watching as his mouth gushes blood. This is not presented as a horrific scenario (at least No Russian, no matter how ham-handed it was, obviously wanted you to be disturbed by it), it's just another sequence in a long scenario of America saving the entire world through ultra-violence as the user-base presumably cheers on the Forces of Freedom taking it to those Godless Commies. Indeed the torture is conducted by a character the devs clearly expect you to find 'cool'. This got 8/10 on Eurogamer.

In God of War III, there's a bit where you force a clearly terrified, virtually topless, innocent teenage girl around a bunch of corridors as she whimpers and tries to resist, before tying her to a large wheel which then crushes her to death in a gory fashion. This got 9/10 on Eurogamer and didn't even warrant a mention by the reviewer.

Why this rather corny sounding scenario from Duke Nukem has raised their ire over these examples is one to ponder.

I can see the point Eurogamer is making (but let's face it, I'm too old at near 40 to be interested in the Duke).

However to add to the above I was recently playing God of War 2 and there was a bit where you feed a terrified man into some nasty grindy machinery that almost stopped me right there. No Russian was enough to stop me even being interested in CoD, Manhunt as well.

Despite all this I'm still surpised that no-one batted an eyelid at Shadow Hearts:Covenant on the PS2 which had you collecting gay porn trading cards to trade with camp shopkeepers for doll dresses for the doll a rather creepy old man in your party used.

Oh and the wrestling match with The Great Question which pretty much ends with

one well oiled male wrestler giving another well oiled male wrestler a celebratory blow job. In public. On member of which is a member of the Russian Royal family. Who was twelve.

If those can get past the moral police I'm sure all this will achieve is more sales for the Duke.

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I often seem to find stuff like this more objectionable when it's presented in a way that deliberately draws attention to itself. Yes, you can bang a prostitute in GTA to regain your health and then shoot her and get your money back

That actually led to the Australian version having the prostitutes removed from the game due to pressure from the right (who don't like sex in videogames) and the left (who felt it glorified violence against women.)

Mind you at the time there had been a string of sexual assualts/homicides in Australia so the country was probably less tolerant of that at the time.

No Russian of course got through as being appropriate for 15 year olds without a hitch.

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It's a persuasive argument. It's also stupid and disingenuous. The slaughter of thousands by an improbable super-soldier is pretty blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy. Slapping women? That's something which, sadly, happens every day in countless households around the world.

Ok, please tell me why "the slaughter of thousands by an improbable super-soldier is pretty blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy"? Oh right, because of the inclusion of the phrase "an improbable super-soldier". Because "The slaughter of thousands by [soldiers] is pretty blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy" doesn't make much sense.

Now if we apply the same logic when talking about "slapping women on the arse", we can talk abouy how "slapping women on the arse by an improbable super-soldier is blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy". It's clear that it is the incl. of "an improbable super-soldier" that determines whether the statement belongs to the "realms of utter fantasy" or not. Deciding that "the slaughter of thousands" belongs to fantasy and that the slapping of a woman's arse clearly doesn't solely based on the fact that the author (completely subjectively) decides that one of them is done by "super-soldiers", and the other isn't, doens't make much sense imo. And where does that leave Duke Nukem? Is he an improbable super-soldier only when slaughtering thousands (of aliens), and a very real misogynist when slapping women's arses? Hmm.

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...Oh and the wrestling match with The Great Question which pretty much ends with

one well oiled male wrestler giving another well oiled male wrestler a celebratory blow job. In public. On member of which is a member of the Russian Royal family. Who was twelve.

Amazing!

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A deeper question here is: why should videogames have to be restrained to realistic portrayals of groups? Even those in this thread who disagree with this Eurogamer idiot say that games need to "do better" in how they portray women, but why?

Film casts tend to be entirely made up of highly attractive people, that's something of a given. That doesn't mean they can't portray those characters with a sense of verisimilitude and respect.

A female character in a game having a perfectly formed arse isn't an issue, the problem is when that's all they are. It's pretty off-putting and tiresome, regardless of gender, when a character is so shallow an inclusion.

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Film casts tend to be entirely made up of highly attractive people, that's something of a given. That doesn't mean they can't portray those characters with a sense of verisimilitude and respect.

To carry forward the film analogy there's a difference between the portrayal of women in, say, Austin Powers where it's clear the filmmakers are trying to portray a comedically heightened archetype from a specific time period and Transformers where you get the distinct impression that the director does actually believe that women are tits n' arse that aren't good for much beyond draping themselves sexily over vehicles and slobbing the knob of the male protagonist. Duke Nukem is much closer to the former than the latter.

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I can see the point Eurogamer is making (but let's face it, I'm too old at near 40 to be interested in the Duke).

However to add to the above I was recently playing God of War 2 and there was a bit where you feed a terrified man into some nasty grindy machinery that almost stopped me right there. No Russian was enough to stop me even being interested in CoD, Manhunt as well.

Despite all this I'm still surpised that no-one batted an eyelid at Shadow Hearts:Covenant on the PS2 which had you collecting gay porn trading cards to trade with camp shopkeepers for doll dresses for the doll a rather creepy old man in your party used.

Oh and the wrestling match with The Great Question which pretty much ends with

one well oiled male wrestler giving another well oiled male wrestler a celebratory blow job. In public. On member of which is a member of the Russian Royal family. Who was twelve.

If those can get past the moral police I'm sure all this will achieve is more sales for the Duke.

Fantastic game. Wasn't the wrestling against men named after curry dishes called the "Man Festival" too?

And as for realistic portrayal of women in games, people need to check out Deadly Premonition.

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Fahey's already covered that:

The slaughter of thousands by an improbable super-soldier is pretty blatantly within the realms of utter fantasy.

Wars, especially ones in which Americans kill a large number of foreigners through highly superior weaponry, never actually happen. Whereas slapping women on the bum happens every day.

To be fair, slapping a womans arse is also in the realms of utter fantasy for shitloads of gamers :hat:

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A female character in a game having a perfectly formed arse isn't an issue, the problem is when that's all they are. It's pretty off-putting and tiresome, regardless of gender, when a character is so shallow an inclusion.

I disagree. There are plenty of male characters in games who are just muscled thugs. Like the perfectly formed woman, their inclusion is only shallow if it's one of the few games in which narrative is a major element. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter. No-one plays Contra and wishes that their character had more depth -- they just want a character that looks cool and fits the general aesthetic.

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