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Nintendo to launch hetero gaming product


Jack
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You know.. id fecking believe that.. nintendo are twats, instead of having the GC online from scrach, they'll go half assed at it

Yeah, they should have gone at it the MS way and just thrown loads of money they were never going to see back at it. I mean, why wait until the next generation of hardware when you can spend millions on a service that won't reach full potential right now.

Nintendo will go online when they can make cash out of it, not before. If anything the lack of commercial success for Live! does nothing but justfy the decision Nintendo made this gen.

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So you're happy to accept that those consoles don't exists yet because they can't

Correct.

but you're not happy to accept the same with the 10 speed GameCube handheld thingy?!

Incorrect.

I DO accept that the same thing is also true of the next Ninty handheld as well. I never said that I didn't.

Of course as Mr. Pickford has quite rightly pointed out, it would be stupid and impractical to release a new system just because you can, however, in spite of this, I still don't believe it is possible or practical technologically just yet. Not because the big N haven't done it yet, but because nowhere anywhere has anywhere near that level of technology available that cheaply and that efficiently on the market yet. If you consider the PSP to be pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes then I find it hard to imagine something that is ten times as powerful being equally possible so soon after it.

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So you're happy to accept that those consoles don't exists yet because they can't

Correct.

but you're not happy to accept the same with the 10 speed GameCube handheld thingy?!

Incorrect.

I accept that the same thig is also true of the next Ninty handheld as well. I never say that I didn't.

No, but you said it was surely not going to exist, as otherwise it would exist already:

"Yeah, but realistically, factoring in battery life, energy efficiency, overheating, size, etc., it just wouldn't happen... otherwise it, erm.. would have."

If you consider the PSP to be pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes then I find it hard to imagine something that is ten times as powerful being equally possible so soon after it.

I don't consider the PSP to be "pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes" at all.

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No, but you said it was surely not going to exist, as otherwise it would exist already:

Well yes, that's true IF (like I initially did) you ignore financial and marketing reasons for not releasing it.

I don't consider the PSP to be "pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes" at all.

Why's that then? Just interested, like.

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No, but you said it was surely not going to exist, as otherwise it would exist already:

Well yes, that's true IF (like I initially did) you ignore financial and marketing reasons for not releasing it.

What, so ignoring sales and marketing stratergies and what-have-you, if a product could exist in 6 months time it instantly would exist, now, just like that?

I don't consider the PSP to be "pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes" at all.

Why's that then? Just interested, like.

Because I find it very unlikely that a consumer device would be pushing technology to it's extremes.

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You know.. id fecking believe that.. nintendo are twats, instead of having the GC online from scrach, they'll go half assed at it

Yeah, they should have gone at it the MS way and just thrown loads of money they were never going to see back at it. I mean, why wait until the next generation of hardware when you can spend millions on a service that won't reach full potential right now.

Nintendo will go online when they can make cash out of it, not before. If anything the lack of commercial success for Live! does nothing but justfy the decision Nintendo made this gen.

Fair enough, but given a choice in the next generation of consoles of who I would want to go online with then it will be MS all the way. The reasons being they have shown me they can do it, they have delivered everything they promised in spades, and they've put the gamer first and foremost, IMO, by getting all this running whilst taking a probably huge financial hit. Nintendo, and fair play to them, say they won't do anything unless it makes them some money. This is fair enough, but it still amazes me that given the online argument of this generation, Nintendo are still seen as the people's friend whilst MS are the evil empire. T'other way round as far as online gaming is concerned, IMO.

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What, so ignoring sales and marketing stratergies and what-have-you, if a product could exist in 6 months time it instantly would exist, now, just like that?

;)

No... it would exist when it can exist.

I don't consider the PSP to be "pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes" at all.

Why's that then? Just interested, like.

Because I find it very unlikely that a consumer device would be pushing technology to it's extremes.

I said realistic and usable. Of course there is better technology than the PSP, but could you get any more practicality out of it? (ie. without the cost, size, battery life, etc. suffering as a result?)

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What, so ignoring sales and marketing stratergies and what-have-you, if a product could exist in 6 months time it instantly would exist, now, just like that?

;)

No... it would exist when it can exist.

Well, I'm glad we finally agree on that. So, your initial argument - that a hypothesised product Nintendo are going to unveil in 6 months time (or 4 or 5 or whenever - in the future), couldn't be going to exist, as otherwise it would exist already - was nonesense. Thank you.

I don't consider the PSP to be "pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes" at all.

Why's that then? Just interested, like.

Because I find it very unlikely that a consumer device would be pushing technology to it's extremes.

I said realistic and usable. Of course there is better technology than the PSP, but could you get any more practicality out of it? (ie. without the cost, size, battery life, etc. suffering as a result?)

I think cost is the only one of those that would prevent it having a commercial release. And as Microsoft have proven, companies are sometimes willing to make a BIG loss on hardware.

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So you're happy to accept that those consoles don't exists yet because they can't

Correct.

but you're not happy to accept the same with the 10 speed GameCube handheld thingy?!

Incorrect.

I DO accept that the same thing is also true of the next Ninty handheld as well. I never said that I didn't.

Of course as Mr. Pickford has quite rightly pointed out, it would be stupid and impractical to release a new system just because you can, however, in spite of this, I still don't believe it is possible or practical technologically just yet. Not because the big N haven't done it yet, but because nowhere anywhere has anywhere near that level of technology available that cheaply and that efficiently on the market yet. If you consider the PSP to be pushing realistic and usable handheld technology to its extremes then I find it hard to imagine something that is ten times as powerful being equally possible so soon after it.

The cube itself is cheaper than a GBA. A 10x speed increase (obviously just a figure I plucked out of the air) is not hard to imagine. The GC is something like 100x as powerful as the N64.

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No... it would exist when it can exist.

Well, I'm glad we finally agree on that.

I never disagreed with that.

So, your initial argument - that a hypothesised product Nintendo are going to unveil in 6 months time (or 4 or 5 or whenever - in the future), couldn't be going to exist, as otherwise it would exist already - was nonesense.

It would be nonesense(sic) if that was my argument. But it wasn't.

Right then, to reiterate, again, one last time, to make myself clear about this:

Factor out marketing strategies (like I said I did in the first place - naively or otherwise, irrelevant for the moment) and focus just on the technology, the price, the practicality, etc.

If the technology was available to create a new '10xGCpower' handheld then it would exist. It doesn't, meaning (again ignoring the other bit) that it cannot.

If it exists in a year's time then it will be because it can exist. It doesn't now because it cannot now, otherwise it would.

However, because all the marketing malrky does (obviously) play a part in such things, one cannot say for sure that technology/price/practicality of the hardware is the only reason for it not existing, as Mr. Pickford pointed out. Like with the GBA which was purposely held back because it was a sensible business move at the time.

Despite this, however, I still believe that such a device that would be ten times the power of the Gamecube and portable simply cannot realistically exist yet, given that I consider to PSP to be pushing what is realistically and practically possible.

Clear now?

I think cost is the only one of those that would prevent it having a commercial release.

And battery life.

That's pretty much being pushed to its limits all the time. It would be royally stupid for any company to purposely hold back on battery technology, so you can probably safely assume that battery life and energy efficiency from any handheld device is pretty much as good as it can be right now. Not to mention the size of the thing. And the overheating - which isn't a problem is a normal console because you can have a great big fan to cool the whole thing down.

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then we would (most likely) already see some evidence of that sort of technology elsewhere, or around somewhere.

What exactly do you think they're LOTR on?

What do I think they are Lord of the Rings on?

Sorry? ;)

Rendered. Edited in.

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Take poly count:

The N64 was doing less than 2,000 polys at 60fps.

The cube can do 250,000.

I see!

Then perhaps I've just been looking at this differently, (i.e. from a processor/memory/capacity perspective), which would make it nowhere near 100x as powerful, nor the non-existant new handheld '10x that of a GC'.

Perhaps some extra perspective is needed... I would assume that the PSP would be 'quite close' to the capabilities of the PS2 (even if that is a stretch), so thereby making it roughly the power of Gamecube for argument's sake. So a new handheld that is 10x the power of the GC would be 10x the power of the PSP right? To be released when? The same time as the PSP? Before it? Just after it?

I just can't see it happening somehow. Sony are pushing the technology to its extremes (if what they're saying is true - ha!), I just can't see that much of a difference being possible quite so soon after/before/same time.

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So, your initial argument - that a hypothesised product Nintendo are going to unveil in 6 months time (or 4 or 5 or whenever - in the future), couldn't be going to exist, as otherwise it would exist already - was nonesense.

It would be nonesense(sic) if that was my argument. But it wasn't.

Right then, to reiterate, again, one last time, to make myself clear about this:

Factor out marketing strategies (like I said I did in the first place - naively or otherwise, irrelevant for the moment) and focus just on the technology, the price, the practicality, etc.

If the technology was available to create a new '10xGCpower' handheld then it would exist. It doesn't, meaning (again ignoring the other bit) that it cannot.

Umm, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone claimed the technology was available now. The product is scheduled for worldwide release at the end of 2004, in a years time.

If it exists in a year's time then it will be because it can exist. It doesn't now because it cannot now, otherwise it would.

Yes - that's the point. Spot on. Well done. Pat yourself on the back!

Your first statement was claiming that something due to be released in a years time couldn't happen as otherwise it would exist now - clearly (as you pretty much confirm yourself) nonsense.

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Umm, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone claimed the technology was available now. The product is scheduled for worldwide release at the end of 2004, in a years time.

Which is why it doesn't exist now, because it can't.

Your first statement was claiming that something due to be released in a years time couldn't happen as otherwise it would exist now..

No, not specifically.

Firstly, I said if that level of technology was available then there would be 'some evidence' of it now.

Secondly, if it could exist now, then it would exist now.

It doesn't because it cannot, and I don't believe it can in a years time because of the first point (ie. lack of comparable technology anywhere).

Again, sorry if the whole 'everything that can exist does' thing got out of hand, that was obviously very silly, even if it did make perfect sense on a totally irrelevant level.

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Your first statement was claiming that something due to be released in a years time couldn't happen as otherwise it would exist now..

No, not specifically.

Firstly, I said if that level of technology was available then there would be 'some evidence' of it now.

Secondly, if it could exist now, then it would exist now.

When discussing a possible product to be released in a years time you said:

"Yeah, but realistically, factoring in battery life, energy efficiency, overheating, size, etc., it just wouldn't happen... otherwise it, erm.. would have."

It wouldn't happen otherwise it would have.

A product, to be released in a years time, wouldn't happen, in a years time, as otherwise it would have happened already.

Nobody at that point, as far as I'm aware, claimed it could exist now. We were discussing a product to be released in a years time.

Oh - and for the record, I find it pretty unlikely it could happen, I'm just arguing against your nonsensical argument.

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When discussing a possible product to be released in a years time you said:

"Yeah, but realistically, factoring in battery life, energy efficiency, overheating, size, etc., it just wouldn't happen... otherwise it, erm.. would have."

I didn't mean specifically Nintendo, nor did I mean specifically that it would happen 'right now'.

I meant that there would be 'some sign' of that sort of technology being possible - and I didn't realise it was a year either, until you said it.

I was basing this on the PSP, and how the technology which exists now will be powering it next year when it is released.

With that in mind, the technology doesn't exist now, the handheld of that power cannot exist even in a years time given that fact.

Admitedly this is all a bit jumbled, but there you go.

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Well, I think you've backed out of that one pretty well then - though it would all have been a lot simpler if you'd just admitted you were wrong.  ;-)

Bah!

Just because I said 'wouldn't' instead of 'doesn't'!

It's a matter of perspective, man.

You assumed too much! ;)

Or possibly, you didn't pay enough attention.

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