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Black Mirror

Nick R

By Nick R,
in Film, TV & Radio

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CrichStand

CrichStand

Posted
Posted

This is like watching a walking talking persecution complex taking a stroll through a hall of mirrors and screaming incoherently at the "monsters".

You've had a pop at me, insulted me, tried to wind me up, ignored facts etc. It comes across as being socially dysfunctional. Do you act like this in the pub?

You now seem incapable of saying, "fair enough, i just didn't know that". Its like your brain would implode if you so much as thought of doing such a sensible thing.

You'd sooner decide, the plot analysis on a book itself is wrong. The plot analysis on the film is wrong. All the people associated with making them were wrong. The intellectuals who wrote all the papers were wrong.

Then of course, you post another thinly veiled insult, that has no relation to the thread topic or 1984, which i was discussing with other people. You just try to get another reaction out of me.

You are clearly what i'm led to believe is known as a "troll".

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CrichStand

CrichStand

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Posted

Talking street from 2002 really doesn't help dissuade the masses that you aren't actually a moron.

I was just being a daft lad. No need to prang out on me bruv!

I've already said, i couldn't give two shits about what the "masses", or anybody at all thinks about me in the real world, nevermind on the matrix. Fuck em. They're free to think what they want. Its their crossword puzzle.

I've nothing but love for them.

Stand up, be an individual, have a bit of a say, put ya glasses on, tek em off, shout "death to the infidel"!........'cause the end is nigh motherfuckers, and Isa's a'comin back!

Did ya know ya can get to heaven on a motorcycle? That's how to live a life right there.

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rumblecat

rumblecat

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Posted

Just watched these. Pretty good stuff, probably prefer the National Anthem over the second one, but it's been a while since I saw any TV that stayed with me after the programme finished.

I'm saying that Brooker is laughing and having a pop at things that he sees beneath him. Look how the characters in this that watch the X-Factor style show and enjoy watching mindless programs are portrayed as total fucking idiots. It makes fun of things it deems to be above. I sort of agree with Stewart Lee, that comedy should really be aimed upwards at things above. I just sat watching bits of this thinking Charlie Brooker is a very bitter man.
As for superiority complexes, Charlie Brooker's entire career seems to be based around acting superior. That's exactly how is whole persona and 15 Million Merits itself comes across. "the X-Factor is for morons! Mainstream pop culture is for idiots! The world is full of tossers"! That seems to be all he's got to say really.

I didn't get that at all- I didn't think it was specifically taking a pop at the X-Factor style shows, rather it was about consumerism as a trap and how rebellion can be co-opted, packaged and marketed and become part of the system it's meant to be rebelling against. If anything he was ultimately having a pop at people like himself- people who take the "angry dollar". I didn't think the people watching the programs were meant to be displayed as 'fucking idiots'- they all had different reactions to it. Yeah, one of them was clearly a moron, but that doesn't mean they all were.

What overall comment was this supposed to be making? The X-Factor is shit?

But that wasn't the point of it at all. The X-Factor part was just a vehicle to tell the story, not the point of the story. I can't help think- and I genuinely don't mean this to sound patronising- that maybe you made a decision early on about what you assumed the story was about, which skewered you're reading of it. Because I honestly don't see how any could watch that and think that was the point it was making. I could understand if you were saying "Well, that was just a massive steal from Network", which I think it is a more valid criticism. Although it reminds me that Network is still as relevant today as it was thirty plus years ago. It's like that great speech William Holden gives to Dunaway when he's breaking up with her-

You're television incarnate, Diana: Indifferent to suffering; insensitive to joy. All of life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer. And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. You even shatter the sensations of time and space into split seconds and instant replays. You're madness, Diana. Virulent madness. And everything you touch dies with you. But not me. Not as long as I can feel pleasure, and pain... and love.
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Moz

Moz

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Posted

You've had a pop at me, insulted me, tried to wind me up, ignored facts etc. It comes across as being socially dysfunctional. Do you act like this in the pub?

You now seem incapable of saying, "fair enough, i just didn't know that". Its like your brain would implode if you so much as thought of doing such a sensible thing.

You'd sooner decide, the plot analysis on a book itself is wrong. The plot analysis on the film is wrong. All the people associated with making them were wrong. The intellectuals who wrote all the papers were wrong.

Then of course, you post another thinly veiled insult, that has no relation to the thread topic or 1984, which i was discussing with other people. You just try to get another reaction out of me.

You are clearly what i'm led to believe is known as a "troll".

Dude, you're actually mental. (Keep it up, it's funny)

Episode three tonight, looks to be about memory and the importance of impermanence.

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rubyrox

rubyrox

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I was just being a daft lad. No need to prang out on me bruv!

I've already said, i couldn't give two shits about what the "masses", or anybody at all thinks about me in the real world, nevermind on the matrix. Fuck em. They're free to think what they want. Its their crossword puzzle.

I've nothing but love for them.

Stand up, be an individual, have a bit of a say, put ya glasses on, tek em off, shout "death to the infidel"!........'cause the end is nigh motherfuckers, and Isa's a'comin back!

Did ya know ya can get to heaven on a motorcycle? That's how to live a life right there.

what?

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SqueakyG

SqueakyG

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From the back of 2 of my copies of 1984 -

Oh Fully Aspie :wub: This says everything about you. You slip in the fact that you own more than two copies of the book (to suggest that you're a greater authority than someone who merely owns one copy), but then you use the customer-grabbing back cover blurb to argue your points!

I've personally only read 1984 once, but I recall that it's an incredibly deep and sophisticated text. I would argue that the book is all about love... but deals with love on such complicated levels that you could never call it a traditional "love story".

But anyway. People in this thread aren't really arguing with you because they care deeply about this issue -- they're arguing because you've made it fun to disagree with you. You've presented yourself like a troll, and this encourages people to wind you up to see what you'll type next. You have no need to explain again that 1984 is a love story, we heard it the first 10 times.

Isn't the compliance drink just taking the piss out of people who enter the X-Factor etc and will seemingly do anything they're told to in order to achieve fame? Its just bashing the X-Factor.

Your perspective is off. It's a decent observation that the "cuppliance" drink relates to people complying and obeying the X-Factor judges so that they may be moulded into pop fodder. But why do you think Brooker is taking the piss out of the people who comply? It's so much more likely that he's observing the system, and looking with sympathetic pity on those who feel compelled to comply with the system. Why don't you see that?

I see the whole show as just Charlie Brooker basically saying "look at all these mindless twats, enjoying their twatish entertainment". He's taking the piss out of people like us,

Then he's also taking the piss out of himself, because he's absorbed in these entertainments too. I don't even think he's taking the piss out of people who watch such entertainment, I think he's exploring how and why it gets made, and how and why people watch it.

Your persecution complex is rather extreme. For example, I could feel offended because I've spent some time crafting my Xbox Live Avatar, and Mean Old Charlie Brooker's programme suggested that you're a stupid twat for dressing up your avatar! But no, I don't feel offended. I nod wryly at the observation, because I know he's right about the pointlessness of purchasing clothes for your avatar. He's not calling me a twat if I enjoy dressing up my avatar -- he understands that the activity is compelling -- but he makes a comment on its pointlessness.

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CrichStand

CrichStand

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Posted

Oh Fully Aspie :wub: This says everything about you. You slip in the fact that you own more than two copies of the book (to suggest that you're a greater authority than someone who merely owns one copy), but then you use the customer-grabbing back cover blurb to argue your points!

I've personally only read 1984 once, but I recall that it's an incredibly deep and sophisticated text. I would argue that the book is all about love... but deals with love on such complicated levels that you could never call it a traditional "love story".

But anyway. People in this thread aren't really arguing with you because they care deeply about this issue -- they're arguing because you've made it fun to disagree with you. You've presented yourself like a troll, and this encourages people to wind you up to see what you'll type next. You have no need to explain again that 1984 is a love story, we heard it the first 10 times.

Your perspective is off. It's a decent observation that the "cuppliance" drink relates to people complying and obeying the X-Factor judges so that they may be moulded into pop fodder. But why do you think Brooker is taking the piss out of the people who comply? It's so much more likely that he's observing the system, and looking with sympathetic pity on those who feel compelled to comply with the system. Why don't you see that?

Then he's also taking the piss out of himself, because he's absorbed in these entertainments too. I don't even think he's taking the piss out of people who watch such entertainment, I think he's exploring how and why it gets made, and how and why people watch it.

Your persecution complex is rather extreme. For example, I could feel offended because I've spent some time crafting my Xbox Live Avatar, and Mean Old Charlie Brooker's programme suggested that you're a stupid twat for dressing up your avatar! But no, I don't feel offended. I nod wryly at the observation, because I know he's right about the pointlessness of purchasing clothes for your avatar. He's not calling me a twat if I enjoy dressing up my avatar -- he understands that the activity is compelling -- but he makes a comment on its pointlessness.

Er, i mentioned i own a few copies because, well, i do. You're the one who's reading something in to it. You're the one who said the X-Factor numbs the intelligence, and the music is "not real". Which is elitist horseshit. You're the one who's telling me what i should and shouldn't be doing. You're the one saying i'm a "troll" which is bad, but then continually ignoring the other people who are acting like "trolls".

For those who choose to ignore the plot analysis of the book, film, and countless papers written by intellectuals, then how about these few quotes taken from the text of the book itself -

Winston to Julia -

"They can't change my feelings, they can't stop me loving you"

Winston after being tortured -

"I have not betrayed Julia"

"He had not betrayed her. He had not stopped LOVING her".

"Julia! Julia! Julia! MY LOVE! Julia"!

Its not until he shouts that out, that he's taken to Room 101.

"Do it to Julia!" Up until this point the spark of love had kept him going. Faced with his biggest fear, he betrays all he has left to hold on to, his love for Julia. Its turning his back on the person he truly loves that finally breaks him.

From the moment Julia gives Winston her note saying "I LOVE YOU", the main "story" focuses on the love affair and forbidden meetings of Winston and Julia. The book is not all about love. Just the main story between Winston and Julia.

I've not got a persecution complex. I like things to be based on fact and truth. To be fair and equal. So i occasionally have a hard time understanding this place.

Oh, and nobody is winding me up. I've got nothing but love for everyone.

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Moz

Moz

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It felt much smaller than the other two, and had less to say. But I found it more compelling somehow. Less 'try hard' and soapbox, and more content to explore the idea on a personal scale. It made me think of later Cronenberg. Why did everyone have such a big house though?

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SMD

SMD

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It felt much smaller than the other two, and had less to say. But I found it more compelling somehow.

It was a much more intimate story. I think you only really had three major characters, despite the loneliness of the second one it felt more populated.

I think I give this series slack because as far as mainstream TV goes, it's pretty great.

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Moz

Moz

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It's Peep Show innit, except those 'hilarious' first person shots are now projected onto every screen for all to see and obsess over. It felt a lot more 'grown up' than Brookers efforts, though I enjoyed those a lot. Unlike the other two, I think you could actually make an interesting miniseries from the premise. I admired the restraint in the third act (where it could easily have gone off kilter) but I agree the denouement was too neat and simple, and not entirely dramatically satisfying. I'd rather have seen the guy go off the deep end unable to tell what was and wasn't real, instead of simply having his suspicions confirmed and removing his 'grain' as a result.

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Stanley

Stanley

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Nothing happened? The guy's whole life changed in 24 hours, including a very conscious decision to alter his place in society.

well, we don't really know how my h it changed. My guess is that he'd getting more and more jealous and paranoid anyway.

Remove the sci-fi aspect and it's just a jealous guy going mental at his wife and laying into her ex. There was no real conclusion to the piece.

I was gripped by the idea of it though.

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squirtle

squirtle

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Posted

That was quite sad, all told. The scene where he made her replay the sex with Jonas was quite horrible, as was the subsequent scene with his son which just turned out to be a memory. I was reminded of the scene from Robocop where he walks around the empty house that used to be his. On the whole though, smaller in scale than the first two but probably the best one.

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