Black Mirror

[bradigor]

I think Bing's..well...howl of a rant at the end was electrifying, powerful stuff. I was quite breathless just watching it.

To have those feelings articulated so clearly...incredible.

But then he went against that entire speech instantly, when those in 'power' gave him the offer.

He continues with his soap box, but does so under control and in turn promoting more useless crap for others to buy.

Look at the ginger lad at the end, buying a replica piece of glass for his avatar while Bing rants on screen.

He sold out his ideals, everything he stood for as soon as it was offered.

That was the powerful bit for me.

[Moz]

I don't understand what they were pedaling for. Some future horror world where the environment is sucked dry of resources and people need to pedal for power? That's a lot of TVs for one miserable future-man to generate though. Maybe it's just pointless toil for nothing at all other than control I guess. Who does the merits they were spending benefit? Is that just another control device to apply fake worth to things? Or maybe it doesn't matter because that wasn't the point.

Someone help my shit mind get the point. Smitty?

Because they've become so obsessed with screens, and so catered for, that they don't exercise anymore. So it solves two problems with one stone - pedal for fitness and to power all those screens they've become obsessed with.

Has anyone seen Microsoft's 'future home' lately?

[CrichStand]

The more i see of Charlie Brooker's stuff, the more it becomes clear that he desperately wants to be Chris Morris. A poor mans Chris Morris.

Surely this was meant to be nothing more than a throwaway dark comedy? A terribly unfunny one.

If it was meant to be more than that, then good god, it was the shittest, most vapid, shameless, fashionista style rip-off, of classic works of art such as Brave New World, Brave New World Revisited, 1984 etc i've ever seen. Only massively dumbed down, and made for, and aimed at, people who like Tool Academy and I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here. And people who think they're cool as fuck 'cause they don't like mainstream music and the X-Factor. Yawn! It had nothing of any merit to say whatsoever.

George Orwell, and Aldous Huxley will be turning in their fucking graves.

[joffocakes]

I thought it was good.

[CrichStand]

I thought it was good.

Have you read Brave New World Revisited or 1984?

Viewed as throwaway entertainment, then yes it wasn't too bad. Not very funny though. Brooker only seems to be any good at being sarcastic. The point is though, some people see this as seemingly making a comment about modern day society etc, but its actually part of the stuff its commenting on and taking the piss out of. Its a watered down, dumbed down version of classic literature, for the X-Factor generation.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

The point is though, some people see this as seemingly making a comment about modern day society etc, but its actually part of the stuff its commenting on and taking the piss out of.

If it is - and I don't think it is really, although you can definitely make the argument about Brooker himself has become what he hates - then it is very conscious of it. The whole thrust of the story is about dissent being co-opted and commodified.

[CrichStand]

If it is - and I don't think it is really, although you can definitely make the argument about Brooker himself has become what he hates - then it is very conscious of it. The whole thrust of the story is about dissent being co-opted and commodified.

The whole thrust of the story IS 1984.

People are living in a never ending life of drudgery (check), telescreens broadcast endless streams of meaningless drivel (check), man finds chance of escape and freedom in his love for a woman (check), romance is doomed (check) powers that be trample the hopes, dreams and spirits of doomed couple (check), man becomes just another cog in the machine (check).

How is ripping off a classic book, doing away with all the important interesting stuff, such as examining human nature, how societies and governments function etc, then dumbing it down further still, even remotely original, creative, clever or daring? Channel 4 should have binned this, and just put the 1984 film on instead.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Yes, I've read 1984. I imagine a lot of people in this thread have.

This isn't a rip-off and only the most reductionist reading of both 1984 and 15 Million Merits could possibly lead you to that conclusion. Fair enough you didn't like it, but stop nursing such a superiority complex about it.

[KRP]

Plus it was only an hour long, it's not like it was a 6 part series.

[CrichStand]

Yes, I've read 1984. I imagine a lot of people in this thread have.

This isn't a rip-off and only the most reductionist reading of both 1984 and 15 Million Merits could possibly lead you to that conclusion. Fair enough you didn't like it, but stop nursing such a superiority complex about it.

As i've already pointed out, the story, and main plot points are straight out of 1984. Its a bit like a modern re-telling..........only thoroughly shit.

As for superiority complexes, Charlie Brooker's entire career seems to be based around acting superior. That's exactly how is whole persona and 15 Million Merits itself comes across. "the X-Factor is for morons! Mainstream pop culture is for idiots! The world is full of tossers"! That seems to be all he's got to say really.

[cantonarv]

The pedalling may be a comment on how pointless and demotivational most occupations are in the 21st century. Nobody has a craft any more, nobody takes pride in their work any more. So why don't we all just pedal a bike all day to power the national grid? It's about as fulfilling as what most of us already do. It's the extreme example of people toiling all day in a shoe shop whilst dreaming of "meeting the judges" and elevating themselves out of their shitty lives. Take away the shoe shop and you've got bikes... a literally meaningless grind.

I took the "merits" system as a reference to the Gamerscore on Xbox consoles, where some people will honestly work their arses off to get all 1000 achievement points for each game they play. And what have they really done? They've pushed light around on a screen to see a number go up higher. Unlike a game's hiscore - which can at least be valued against other players - the Xbox Gamerscore is a useless arbitrary number. Mine is around 50,000 -- but can you tell whether I played 50 games expertly, or or 80 games averagely? Or whether I have played Xbox intensely for a couple of years or leisurely for nearly a decade? The gamerscore is pointless nonsense, yet there are people right now grinding in games to get that last Achievement.

I think Brooker took this to its logical conclusion: at least if they were pedalling an exercise bike, they could be generating some electricity! And what can the electricity power? More entertainment!

great post

[cantonarv]

The more i see of Charlie Brooker's stuff, the more it becomes clear that he desperately wants to be Chris Morris. A poor mans Chris Morris.

Surely this was meant to be nothing more than a throwaway dark comedy? A terribly unfunny one.

If it was meant to be more than that, then good god, it was the shittest, most vapid, shameless, fashionista style rip-off, of classic works of art such as Brave New World, Brave New World Revisited, 1984 etc i've ever seen. Only massively dumbed down, and made for, and aimed at, people who like Tool Academy and I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here. And people who think they're cool as fuck 'cause they don't like mainstream music and the X-Factor. Yawn! It had nothing of any merit to say whatsoever.

George Orwell, and Aldous Huxley will be turning in their fucking graves.

Kinda agree but in an odd way it could be said that it having no merit was deliberate like the peoples lives had no merit, and Bing even when he tries to do something ultimately is just another show.

[LittleJoe]

*Messy brain dump follows*

I would say it's definitely a lot more like Brave New World than 1984.

1984 is your straight dystopia: the majority live a miserable existence; people know it's shit but are coerced with the threat of force and, obviously, surveillance.

Brave New World is an ostensible Utopia that only looks dystopian to us in the present because we value things like individual agency, liberty and equality. The Alphas, the Betas and what have you are completely content with their Soma and what not, while the lower castes simply don't know any better - they can't. Their society is happier than our own, but they aren't free.

There's a cross between the two when you take into account the role of the proles in 1984 and the Savage in BNW. The proles in 1984 are the largest group in society who are, in theory, uncontrollable and hold tremendous revolutionary power, but simply don't have the interest, education or intent to make a change. The book is often championed by right-wing interventionists because it damns left-wing authoritarianism - The Soviet Union etc - but, like most of Orwell's work I'd say that, while it's concerned with the dangers of orthodoxy and authoritarianism, he's still very much of the left 'every word I have written has been for Democratic Socialism as I understand it' etc and the hope in 1984 lies in the proles choosing to put aside simple base pleasures and smashing the power of the Party someday. There's a similar hope with the Savage in BNW, but the reflexive 'soft power' of having a society where freedom is exchanged for happiness makes it a regime that is will never suffer a downfall like The Party in 1984 would if the Proles were ever pushed to far. In 1984, Winston puts up a fight and is broken, reprogrammed, brainwashed etc - he has to be taken on, but in BNW the savage simply commits suicide, there's nothing to fight so the only response is to reconcile with the prevailing power or get out of it, so to speak. Isn't that what Bing does at the end? He wasn't forcibly coerced - they didn't have to throw him in a gulag - he just learned to love Big Brother, sincerely.

Brooker's dystopia in 15 million credits isn't really one featuring CCTV in every room, stromtroopers etc , it's one where mindless work and endless screens crowds out thought, one that's moreabout pacifying the masses with that kind of soft power. As with The National Anthem, he's gunning at culture, but where TNA seemed more narrowly focused on mass-media hysterial - I'd say this is more broadly - and forgive the pseudy-ness - about capitalism's relationship with culture. The cycles and the credits are clearly a metaphor for work - or at least an ideal of work, in the idea that the longer you cycle, the more you earn - and, as someone's already pointed out I think, like the depraved mass-frenzy of TNA being an echo of many Twitter trends, Bingham's sincere outrage being re-couperated by that system - to garner a profit- isn't any different to Che Guevara T-shirts or those 'The Students Are Revolting' t-shirts Topshop sold shortly are their place was stormed and smashed up by students. You can't protest capitalism - and hope to win - because protesting against capitalism can be made edgy, subversive, 'cool'. Capitalism can offer a solution to any problem capitalism causes. Staggering inequality? We'll have a charity drive with celebrities. Third-world faminie? Let's do a gig at Wembley broadcast across the world with U2 headlining. Environmental catastrophe caused by ever-increasing consumption? Get Disney to make an environmentally-conscious film (that will turn a very tidy profit). I think in the film Brooker sells that idea a bit short by having Bing doing the jokey, self-deflating 'this is the end... until next week' singing off. The point of recuperation as a concept is that his violent rage against the system would be able to be completely sincere, urgent and necessary, but the only way to access it would be through the system he was protesting.

Plus, on the cycles and credits. Doesn't Rupert Everett's judge character push Abi into pornstardom by brow-beating her with the idea that she's going to turn down an opportunity that others would jump at, and that others have sweated and paid for her to have? That kind of idea that you're free to do as you please, as long as it makes financial sense really chimed with me. How dare she waste other people's money by choosing the economically wasteful option. How dare students expect wider society to pay for them to go to university? How dare we not make the NHS more economically competitive by privatising it?

Brooker's been reading some the Frankfurt School, I reckon.

Also, if it is about capitalism, capitalist culture etc. Talent shows are a perfect example for this kind of critique. The idea that, if you are talented, your talent will be found and rewarded is the central aspect of something like the xfactor. And it's something that you'll often hear proponents of de-regulation and free market practices go on about, because it seems like a lovely idea. Your background, your class, your sex, your race - it doesn't matter: Work hard and you will be rewarded with success. The invisible hand of the market will take care of it, etc. The flip side to that is the kind of rhetoric you hear about the underserving poor. Why should I pay taxes to feed poor people who are obviously poor because they didn't work hard enough? They didn't have the x factor, clearly, or they wouldn't be where they are. Anyone who works hard enough wouldn't be where they are. It's less ostensibly aspirational rhetoric, but all of that ideology is also present in shows like the x-factor - it's a dog-eat-dog world, there can only be one winner etc.

1984 is a lot more of the first half of the 20th century - or the Middle East right now. Authoritarian regimes that are ostensibly authoritarian and nasty and do horrible things like spy on their citizens and cling to power with the army. If you were going to go a little Noam Chomsky and get your Marxist thinking cap on, you would say that Huxley's idea of dystopia in BNW is much more of our time. It's the places that achieve the same extent of control over their citizens by making them feel like they're free to choose. It's us.

tl;dr - I really enjoyed it. Much meatier than last week but perhaps less engaging - it was really slow at the start - though he fell into the same trap as last week by completely overselling the ending. I could've done with the shout-y rant at the end, but it did feel more necessary than the shots of doctors somehow finding that time to watch someone fuck a pig for an hour.

[CrichStand]

I didn't get any of that from watching 15 Million Credits. What i watched was a programme with about as much to say as an episode of Total Wipeout. A show made by a sarcastic, elitist, "Indier than thou" bloke, that allowed him to rip the piss out of stuff from modern culture, that he believes himself to be above. Then loads of other "Indier than thou" folk buy into it as some kind of amazing statement and call to arms against popular culture, or modern society. This despite the fact that, its no better than the kind of stuff its taking the piss out of. What overall comment was this supposed to be making? The X-Factor is shit? I'm just seeing it as a dark comedy that wasn't very funny at all, and relied on lowest common denominator humour to try and get a few laughs. A bloke farting in a toilet. Comedy genius.

I don't think its got any real sensible comparisons with Brave New World at all, outside of the fact that 15 Million Credits is the kind of mindless entertainment, used to entertain and distract the masses that Huxley talks about in Brave New World Revisited. Fucking awesome book that.

Seriously comparing 15 Million Credits to classic books is laughable. Its just a disposable bit of entertainment, along the lines of X-Factor and Big Brother.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

If you didn't get the anti-consumerist stuff from 15 Million Merits then, with all due respect, you're thick as shit.

edit: Maybe that's uncalled for. Oblivious, at least.

Great post LittleJoe.

[Smitty]

Not sure what it's worth but I've read 1984, Brave New World and Yevgeny Zamyatin's We (I include as the originator of the 'dystopian trilogy, check it out - http://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Introduction-Will-Yevgeny-Zamyatin/dp/0099511436/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1323904729&sr=8-3). loved them all, and I feel you're being really hard on what was a well-written, well-performed, interesting and thought-provoking drama with a fresh angle on a template we've seen before. It might be familiar but it does have new things to say.

On that last note, there is nothing new under the sun blah blah. And how often do we get telly of this quality these days?

Come on.

Great post LittleJoe.

Yeah, I enjoyed that.

[CrichStand]

If you didn't get the anti-consumerist stuff from 15 Million Credits then, with all due respect, you're thick as shit.

edit: Maybe that's uncalled for. Oblivious, at least.

Great post LittleJoe.

Consumerism is bad! Is that it? This from a guy who's playing the system like a fiddle, and making huge wads of cash from what he does in the process. Damn you consumerism! That just paints him as a total and utter hypocrite, as well as a bit of a whiny cock.

[Smitty]

Consumerism is bad! Is that it? This from a guy who's playing the system like a fiddle, and making huge wads of cash from what he does in the process. Damn you consumerism! That just paints him as a total and utter hypocrite, as well as a bit of a whiny cock.

Hmmm I don't see that Brooker having a successful career as a writer really contradicts him (or anyone) being able to make a criticism of a society obsessed with overconsumption, celebrities and all the rest of it.

I mean, we could live in a society which consumes less, is more equal and egalitarian, offers its people better jobs and careers, natures its industries (and so on) and Brooker could still have a job as a successful writer in it.

It's not like Brooker is a bloated plutocrat or something.

[The Grand Pursuivant]

Consumerism is bad! Is that it? This from a guy who's playing the system like a fiddle, and making huge wads of cash from what he does in the process. Damn you consumerism! That just paints him as a total and utter hypocrite, as well as a bit of a whiny cock.

The only person coming off as a whiny cock is you.

[CrichStand]

Not sure what it's worth but I've read 1984, Brave New World and Yevgeny Zamyatin's We (I include as the originator of the 'dystopian trilogy, check it out - http://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Introduction-Will-Yevgeny-Zamyatin/dp/0099511436/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1323904729&sr=8-3). loved them all, and I feel you're being really hard on what was a well-written, well-performed, interesting and thought-provoking drama with a fresh angle on a template we've seen before. It might be familiar but it does have new things to say.

On that last note, there is nothing new under the sun blah blah. And how often do we get telly of this quality these days?

Come on.

Yeah, I enjoyed that.

People keep saying its really clever and is saying something. What exactly is it saying that is so clever?

There have been loads of shows on TV this week, all of them far better than this. Heavenly Creatures was on last night for starters.

[CrichStand]

Ok I'll bite, but this is going to be a stream-of-conciousness response:

Merits.

15 Million Credits might have had nothing to say, but 15 Million Merits had plenty to say that really has absolutely nothing to do with either Brave New World or 1984. It's set in a future dystopia. That's it. There is no need to compare it to either of those classic texts. It isn't anything like them in any other respect, and arguing with others in this thread about which elements of which of those texts it pilfered from and which comparisons are apt is a pointless exercise. It's a 60 minute TV show, it isn't trying to compete or replace or retell either of those books. It would be like me saying it ripped off Blade Runner because it was set in the future and had an origami bird. I would be incorrect, although clearly the nod was there with the plastic bird at the end, which, brace yourself, is an example of the programme "saying something" - the image of that bird which looked more life-like but which was still fake served to remind us not only of the love he had lost, but that his escape from the drudgery of the bikes was only into another kind of drudgery, one that afforded him orange juice, and space, and screens which presented the illusion of a real outside world, but which were still fake. The fact that most people now spend their lives looking at computers at work, watching TV's at home, studying their iphones in between and even socialising on them is a development of our time not addressed in either Brave New World or 1984 but which is addressed in 15 Million Merits. The characters in this programme live in rooms where every wall is a screen. Even if you see no value in this comment (however you interpret it) you cannot deny the authenticity and quality with which the show was produced. The idea that they are penalised for not watching ads is also a pertinent one given the state of channels like ITV or commerical radio where every programme is an advertisement for another programme or product.

People have complain it started slow but I was in awe at the lack of dialogue in the opening 20 minutes. It introduced the viewer to that enclosed environment and routine perfectly.

It doesn't matter who made it. Separate the artist from the art, or if you won't grant him that title, the sarcastic, "indier-than-thou" bloke from the piece of intelligent science-fiction he got commissioned by the same Channel that ran Big Brother for ten years.

These are your preconceptions, not based in any real fact. I suspect that you seem to think people claiming 15MM to be amazing aren't familiar with BNW or 1984, and want to stress that you are? And that therefore you're smarter? Or that appreciation of one or the other is somehow mutually exclusive? Irrelevant, really.

It clearly wasn't a comedy, so arguing that it failed as a comedy is an argument you're having with yourself and no-one else. It was certainly a hell of a lot better than either Total Wipeout or X Factor (though TW is a harmless bit of slapstick), but I'm not going to waste my finger muscles explaining to you why.

Yeah, it's an alright book. Whilst I wouldn't draw comparisons with 15MM someone else in the thread has, and made a case for it, they clearly know the book so they're not one of these "indier-than-thou" sheep you're referring to so why try and pull apart what they've taken from the programme? Provocation of ideas is valuable even if you dislike the source text. Compared to what pours out of our TV screens these days Black Mirror is far from mindless entertainment. They don't make shows like The Twilight Zone any more, that deal with subversive and philosophical ideas, so why strive so hard to shit on one that does?

Really:

That's you, from a page ago.

To you maybe. But who are you to criticise what other people take away from it?

I have at no point, said i'm smarter than anybody else on here, i just want to make that clear.

What i really don't like about this show is that its slagging off stuff like X-Factor, elements of modern pop culture, mass market consumerism etc, yet its part of the system its slagging off. Its bollocks. You can dress it up as much as you like but its hypocritical. Its no better than the stuff its mocking. People seem to be getting the impression that i'm elitist. These people are championing a programme that's riddled with elitism.

Its a consumerist, anti-consumerist drama, for people who are consumerist, anti-consumerists, and elitist anti-elitists. Makes perfect sense.

So the moral of 15 Million Merits is - consumerism and celebrities are bad, but make sure you buy my new DVD and follow me on Twitter, and don't forget, anyone who enjoys mainstream stuff (just like this show) is thick as shit.

[Made of Ghosts]

Why is this consumerist? Because it's on TV? Anti-consumerism doesn't mean you're against anything ever being sold. Is 1984 hypocritical because Orwell didn't give it away for free?

[Professor Puzzles]

Dear Michael, 15MM absolutely is not the same as X-Factor or Big Brother, for the simple reason that there has been care and attention put into the creation of this programme in an effort to provide the audience with something interesting to think about afterwards rather than simply filling time and selling records. It's a programme that features talented actors playing a fine (IMO) script as opposed to 12 specially-selected talentless idiots bundled into a house for six months, and it's a programme created around dramatic ideas rather than callously designed as a promotional tool to sell music.

Whether it succeeded in its efforts is up to us, and personally I think it does; there is certainly an interesting warning here about spending too much of your time engaged with virtual worlds instead of real life, and in co-opting the dreams and aspirations that the mass media depict as worthwhile rather than creating your own. So it has content, it has worth as a piece of fiction, and yes it is a part of the system it is criticising but that does not mean that Brooker cannot question and criticise aspects of television that he personally finds distasteful.

You may see hypocrisy in Brooker biting the hand that feeds him but he's never been shy in stating that he sometimes finds his status as arch media commentator a bit uncomfortable; in several of his columns and TV shows he has often cracked despairing little quips about his own compliance with the media machines he's ranting about, he's obviously aware of his own precarious position within the industry. If he wasn't so aware of himself then he would probably have given Bing a happier ending rather than the purgatory he is forced into, but looking at it from Charlie's point of view even though he is in many ways the Bing of the ending, spouting his rage into camera with a shard of glass pressed to his throat even as he accepts gewgaws and doodads from the system he claims to hate, the alternative - a world in which nobody ever questions or stands up against the bollocks that passes for entertainment, a world of blank-eyed compliance - is unbearable.

[SqueakyG]

Fully Aspel: stop trolling. Every time I see your name pop up in threads you're saying something contradictory, ill-thought, irritating and pointless.

Not only was 15 Million Merits one of the more thoughtful and interesting pieces of television I have seen for a while, but this thread has also been quite thoughtful and interesting. Even Smitty has relatively behaved himself! Several people have expressed their thoughts about the episode in an intelligent and productive manner. Many interesting meanings and ideas have been raised. It's clear that the episode contained a level of depth and stands up to critical scrutiny.

Nobody is saying it's a masterpiece, but it had "about as much to say as an episode of Total Wipeout"? Fuck off. Total Wipeout makes me think, "Hurr durr the man fell in the water!" 15 Million Merits made me think about: the dangers of popular entertainment totally defining our culture; the death of art; the death of the last generation who will know the difference between popular entertainment and art; the death of personality when you lose the choice to avoid popular entertainment; the deconstruction of meaningful human expressions when packaged into empty non-nourishing popular entertainment; the death of all skill, craft and industry in a world where TV fame is considered the escape goal from real life. And this is just what I can be bothered articulating to you right now... I feel that I took many other meanings from the episode too. The fact that I'm still thinking about it means I was quite deeply affected by the piece.

"Hurr durr the man fell in the water!" Fuck off, Fully Aspel. Actually fuck off.

[CrichStand]

Why is this consumerist? Because it's on TV? Anti-consumerism doesn't mean you're against anything ever being sold. Is 1984 hypocritical because Orwell didn't give it away for free?

I'm not fussed if it is or isn't.

I don't like the fact that he's mocking people who buy pointless shit. Yet he fully expects these people to rush out and buy his dvds. He's mocking people for watching the X-Factor and mindless tv shows, yet this is not any better or any more entertaining, and he relies on people watching these shows to make his money. He's mocking celebrity culture, yet he expects people to follow him on Twitter etc. Its hypocritical. If he hates consumerism and modern society why doesn't he live as a self sufficient recluse somewhere? I'll tell you why. Its all elitist fashionista posturing.

1984 isn't about consumerism. Its a love story.

[Made of Ghosts]

I don't like the fact that he's mocking people who buy pointless shit. Yet he fully expects these people to rush out and buy his dvds.

That's only hypocritical if he thinks his DVDs are pointless shit.

He's mocking people for watching the X-Factor and mindless tv shows, yet this is not any better or any more entertaining

If the show's entire criticism of the X Factor was that it's not entertaining, then that would be a fair point. But it was saying more than that.

He's mocking celebrity culture, yet he expects people to follow him on Twitter etc.

Again, not really the same. Twitter isn't the sum total of celebrity culture. Following someone on Twitter because he says funny things is not incompatible with thinking that it's a bit pointless to spend all your time reading about what the Kardashians are up to.

If he hates consumerism and modern society why doesn't he live as a self sufficient recluse somewhere?

Is that the rule? If you don't like one aspect of society you have to reject it entirely?

[CrichStand]

Fully Aspel: stop trolling. Every time I see your name pop up in threads you're saying something contradictory, ill-thought, irritating and pointless.

Not only was 15 Million Merits one of the more thoughtful and interesting pieces of television I have seen for a while, but this thread has also been quite thoughtful and interesting. Even Smitty has relatively behaved himself! Several people have expressed their thoughts about the episode in an intelligent and productive manner. Many interesting meanings and ideas have been raised. It's clear that the episode contained a level of depth and stands up to critical scrutiny.

Nobody is saying it's a masterpiece, but it had "about as much to say as an episode of Total Wipeout"? Fuck off. Total Wipeout makes me think, "Hurr durr the man fell in the water!" 15 Million Merits made me think about: the dangers of popular entertainment totally defining our culture; the death of art; the death of the last generation who will know the difference between popular entertainment and art; the death of personality when you lose the choice to avoid popular entertainment; the deconstruction of meaningful human expressions when packaged into empty non-nourishing popular entertainment; the death of all skill, craft and industry in a world where TV fame is considered the escape goal from real life. And this is just what I can be bothered articulating to you right now... I feel that I took many other meanings from the episode too. The fact that I'm still thinking about it means I was quite deeply affected by the piece.

"Hurr durr the man fell in the water!" Fuck off, Fully Aspel. Actually fuck off.

You really need to get yourself a copy of Brave new World Revisited and take it on board. It deals with how great it is to be an individual, and have free will and free thought. You don't seem to be able to grasp that i've got my own mind and opinions. I see it as shallow and vapid, no better than the things it mocked. I see it as elitist hypocritical nonsense. You seem to see it as a work of immense art, that challenges your very perceptions of modern day life. Nothing wrong with that at all. Remember though, don't buy that downloadable content, click on that + or - button, or enjoy Lady Gaga's latest single, or you'll no longer be too cool for school.

[SqueakyG]

As for superiority complexes, Charlie Brooker's entire career seems to be based around acting superior.

A show made by a sarcastic, elitist, "Indier than thou" bloke, that allowed him to rip the piss out of stuff from modern culture, that he believes himself to be above.

So the moral of 15 Million Merits is - consumerism and celebrities are bad, but make sure you buy my new DVD and follow me on Twitter, and don't forget, anyone who enjoys mainstream stuff (just like this show) is thick as shit.

These are bad arguments, Fully Aspel. You make yourself sound like you have a very personal grudge against the man who co-wrote this piece of television, and it makes you sound quite immature. "Indier-than-thou"? "Fashionista"? Get a grip.

You should be able to watch this episode without having a pre-formed grudge against the artist who wrote it. As it happens, I think Brooker is an intriguing man because he is almost sheepishly aware of the position he is in: he's a guy who could spin a funny column out of misanthropic ranting, then he became part of the TV machine he ranted against. Hell, this is even built into 15 Million Merits as one of its most crushing points: Bing is Brooker at the end, taking the deal, making the mediocre comedy panel show with a boyband haircut. The great thing about Charlie Brooker is that he is rather self-deprecating about it all. It doesn't look like he considers himself "above" anything. He doesn't have a twitter account for the fame... he has it because he likes to tweet. He doesn't try to shovel his DVDs into your christmas stocking (and what DVD's does he even have out? Dead Set, probably Black Mirror soon. But Screen Wipe and News Wipe? I'd love to have those on DVD, where are they??)

And he does have excellent points to make about how popular entertainment is a danger to our culture and our personal identities. So what if he has a hypocritical relationship with the very system he critiques? If anything, that makes his points all the richer.

I don't think Brooker suggests that people who watch The X-Factor are "thick as shit" (well, maybe he has directly insulted them, but if so, it's the humour of his columns). His point is more that entertainment like The X-Factor has a numbing effect on the intellect and it sedates the population, and if it takes over our lives it will lead to a loss of identity and culture. If anything, a piece of work like 15 Million Merits sympathetically explains why shows like The X-Factor are so intoxicating and why we cannot avoid them.

And by the way, it's totally possible to see the dangers of something intoxicating and then get intoxicated anyway. I know alcohol poisons my body and turns me into an obnoxious dullard, but I sometimes like to get drunk. Brooker knows that The X-Factor/Big Brother/I'm A Celebrity/Etc pollute culture and numb the intellect, but he also watches them. Who says you have to rise above something to critique it? Who says you have to be so principled?

[CrichStand]

These are bad arguments, Fully Aspel. You make yourself sound like you have a very personal grudge against the man who co-wrote this piece of television, and it makes you sound quite immature. "Indier-than-thou"? "Fashionista"? You sound like a twat, mate.

You should be able to watch this episode without having a pre-formed grudge against the artist who wrote it. As it happens, I think Brooker is an intriguing man because he is almost sheepishly aware of the position he is in: he's a guy who could spin a funny column out of misanthropic ranting, then he became part of the TV machine he ranted against. Hell, this is even built into 15 Million Merits as one of its most crushing points: Bing is Brooker at the end, taking the deal, making the mediocre comedy panel show with a boyband haircut. The great thing about Charlie Brooker is that he is rather self-deprecating about it all. It doesn't look like he considers himself "above" anything. He doesn't have a twitter account for the fame... he has it because he likes to tweet. He doesn't try to shovel his DVDs into your christmas stocking (and what DVD's does he even have out? Dead Set, probably Black Mirror soon. But Screen Wipe and News Wipe? I'd love to have those on DVD, where are they??)

And he does have excellent points to make about how popular entertainment is a danger to our culture and our personal identities. So what if he has a hypocritical relationship with the very system he critiques? If anything, that makes his points all the richer.

I don't think Brooker suggests that people who watch The X-Factor are "thick as shit" (well, maybe he has directly insulted them, but if so, it's the humour of his columns). His point is more that entertainment like The X-Factor has a numbing effect on the intellect and it sedates the population, and if it takes over our lives it will lead to a loss of identity and culture. If anything, a piece of work like 15 Million Merits sympathetically explains why shows like The X-Factor are so intoxicating and why we cannot avoid them.

X-Factor has a numbing effect on the intellect? It sedates the population? You having a laugh or what? You've bought into this shit big time. Your entitled to your opinions of course, but...........what a load of monumental bollocks. The music that comes out of X-Factor is just as valid as anything else. I'm an indie musician, by the way. The show is just entertainment. You'll be telling me that Bullseye was a covert government mind control operation next.

I used to really like Charlie Brooker, and enjoyed Screenwipe, but started to realise he was very one note. Just ripping the piss out of stuff he saw as being beneath him, and his whole tv persona and his sarcasm started to grate. He was also clearly knocking off Chris Morris, the Day Today in particular. I was looking forward to this show though, thought the guys rant at the end was a top bit of acting, but outside of that, well, i just thought it was rather shit. Not sure why you can't accept that really.

[KRP]

Seriously comparing 15 Million Credits to classic books is laughable.

Wasn't it you that started this anyway?