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Ocarina of Time Versus Wind Waker


ubob
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In a fit of gaming boredom on Wednesday night - mainly induced by a lack of owning any decent adventure games on my Gamecube right now - I suddenly remembered that along with "Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker" Nintendo had lovingly given me a copy of "Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time - Master Quest", and promptly banged it in into my Gamecube.

The sun rose over the hill and once more Epona flashed across the screen, taking me in an instant back in time to a smaller lounge, a different TV and somewhat different controller. The N64 was my very first Nintendo. I'd been a Sega man until then (actually I was still a Sega man - proven out by the fact that I bought a Dreamcast when I got pissed off at Nintendo's ridiculous release strategy on the N64). Anyway, this is just context - fundamentally, whilst I enjoyed Ocarina back in '98 and was impressed by the gameplay I had no reference point, no control subject, against which to gauge this adventure. As a Sega man, I had never played "Link to the Past", nor the original.

Flash forward once again to last night. I'm running over Hyrule Plain. Death Mountain smokes away, off to my right. The sun starts to set and the Plain takes on an amber allure as the wolf howls begin.

Flash back. It's now May 2003. I was late to the Gamecube foray. I'd been tainted by my N64 mis-adventures and was still enjoying my Dreamcast, but now I had a Cube and in my grubby mitts I held a copy of "Wind Waker". It's all very familiar; the way Link interacts with scenery, the characters - I get it now. THIS is what Zelda is. Go here, get this, talk to him, take this to her, enter the dungeons, beat the boss, steal the trophy. "Ocarina of Time" is at this point a mere, over anti-aliased memory at the back of my gaming mind. I'm not comparing these games. I'm just playing "Wind Waker" - and I'm loving it.

Once more we time travel back to last night. I've got all 3 Spirit Stones and I'm in the Time Temple. One more keypress and I've played the tune. The doors open and the Master Sword is there for my grabbing.....walk.....press "A" - "Grab".

BAM. It hits me. There and then. Like lifting the clutch on a Dodge Viper, it's sudden and abrupt. There's no comparison. It's clear to see.

Whilst "Wind Waker" was great, "Ocarina of Time" is, frankly, second to absolutely no other.

Playing these two games in a relatively close timeframe makes it easy to draw the comparisons. Let's put aside for one moment the great debate on the graphics. You either liked the cell-shading or you didn't. You were either put out by Nintendo dropping the "mature" look, or you didn't give a shit. Either way let's ignore it for one day. Let's look beneath the veneer of these two games.

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Ah..the sailing...you've hit a point. Wind control. A nice idea, Ninty - but really, the sailing was kinda dull. And not dull in the way that I found running over Hyrule Plain dull back in '98 (a Hyrule Plain, which in comparison to the travelling required in "Wind Waker", now seems tiny) - it was dull because I'd sail and sail to get to the island, then spend two minutes on a tiny island only to have to sail, sail, sail again. Oh - and you don't want to go with the wind? Guess what - time to whip out that Wind Waker again. The sailing was a great idea, but poorly designed.

Certainly didn't make me feel like a pirate - that's sure.

(OOO-AR, matey)

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Flash forward once again to last night. I'm running over Hyrule Plain. Death Mountain smokes away, off to my right. The sun starts to set and the Plain takes on an amber allure as the wolf howls begin.

You didn't mention the clicking sound of the drawbridge as this happens.

Atmosphere in spades, an absolute peerless materpiece.

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Flash forward once again to last night. I'm running over Hyrule Plain. Death Mountain smokes away, off to my right. The sun starts to set and the Plain takes on an amber allure as the wolf howls begin.

You didn't mention the clicking sound of the drawbridge as this happens.

Atmosphere in spades, an absolute peerless materpiece.

We need more of this sort of thing around here. Less apathy and negativity and more of this, please.

I love the little piece of music as day breaks. Classic stuff.

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And there's the moment when link see Ganondorf through the window after first meeting Princess Zelda.

Another thing that comes to mind is the dungeons. Now, I was playing the Master Quest version of Ocarina, but the dungeon designs in Ocarina exceed those of Wind Waker by two-fold at least. Anyone remember walking into Dodongo's Cavern for the first time, seeing the massive head staring at you and immediately thinking "Somehow, I want to open the mouth of that thing and walk right in". And you know what? Whilst playing "Ocarina of Time", I died. I died several times over. And that was just in the Deku Tree. How many times did you die playing "Wind Waker"? Now, I'm not the kind of person who believes that a game has to be difficult in order to be a good. But a game does have to present a certain amount of challenge for it be anything more than a walkthrough-story. And it's the dungeons of any Zelda game that must provide this facet of gaming.

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..a Hyrule Plain, which in comparison to the travelling required in "Wind Waker", now seems tiny..

That's the only problem I see with the idea. They wanted to make the world seem HUGE, and they did. But as a result it took ages to get anywhere (until you leanr the Ballad of Gales).

Having said that, though, was it really any slower than running across Hyrule field? I seem to recall that taking ages too, until you get Epona.

And there's plenty to do whilst out on the sea, like getting those Rupees as they appear between the barrels, and hunting down the fish, and finding the island in each section. And the pirate ship!

Ooo-arrrr!!

The other problem I had with Wind Waker was the camera. OoT didn't need camera control, but as soon as it becomes available (by having a C-stick) is exactly when it is needed. It made some fights too awkward, but others were improved by it, like the Ganon shadow things at the end, where a side-on view is very useful.

Wind Waker - not perfect, by a long shot.

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The other problem I had with Wind Waker was the camera. OoT didn't need camera control, but as soon as it becomes available (by having a C-stick) is exactly when it is needed. It made some fights too awkward, but others were improved by it, like the Ganon shadow things at the end, where a side-on view is very useful.

Thing is, I never used the camera in Windwaker (except when switching to first person view) I played it exactly like OoT (pulling the left trigger to put the camera behind Link). So I saw it merely as a 'bonus' that wasn't integral to playing it.

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I need to go back to the Master Quest... I loved the Wind Waker.. sould and emotion in spades, but, TooT had so many more fantastic "gaming moments"... from the opening tune with the backdrop of Link on Epona riding over the plain... Navi's "hey!"... Leaving the village for the first time... Meeting Zelda for the first time...

There's just so many of them. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly it is that makes it so... so.... beautiful. It's about the only word I can use. It's almost the perfect game. There hasn't been a game yet that has generated the same emotions within me. Not one. Not Ico, Not TWW. TWW has moments where it came close, the first time I went back to Old Hyrule castle in black and white gave me the shivers, being on the boat alone in the middle of the sea during a storm... riding the waves with the wind in my sail and gulls in my slipstream...

but nothing..

nothing...

has matched TooT yet... and I'm not sure if anything will for a long long time.

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Playing OoT at the minute - have the master sword and Epona fr travelling.

I think both games are great in their own way. OoT thus far wins over though with better dungeons, better puzzles and an Ocarina rather than a baton. The fairy woman though that from time to time upgrades your magic is a scary woman (reviving your worst waking up after the night before memories) - sleazy, ugly and underdressed but at least she likes you.

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And there's plenty to do whilst out on the sea, like getting those Rupees as they appear between the barrels, and hunting down the fish, and finding the island in each section. And the pirate ship!

But didn't the repetition of these events take you to a new level of fustration ?

Sail the boat, use the telescope, find the fish, sail to the fish, feed the fish - map marked ! Bugger...how many more squares to go ?

Again, "Ocarina of Time" scores points in this area - the level of repetion was way lower (using memory here as I've not got to any repetition at all yet in my Masterquest replaying).

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The other problem I had with Wind Waker was the camera. OoT didn't need camera control, but as soon as it becomes available (by having a C-stick) is exactly when it is needed. It made some fights too awkward, but others were improved by it, like the Ganon shadow things at the end, where a side-on view is very useful.

Thing is, I never used the camera in Windwaker (except when switching to first person view) I played it exactly like OoT (pulling the left trigger to put the camera behind Link). So I saw it merely as a 'bonus' that wasn't integral to playing it.

I know, it's strange. I seemed to find myself using it just because it was there!

I don't recall ever 'wanting' to change camera angles in OoT. Perhaps a re-play is in order...

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I really shdouldn't read this thread as I have assignments to do and the Zelda OOT is sitting temptingly behind me waiting for me to start playing it.

OOT has a magic that Wind Waker lacked. Perhaps it was the way you actually saw the destrucion of Hyrule thanks to Ganon (look what he did to the beautiful Hyrule Lake) and the real way it affected the people living there. The bustling Hyrule Market was now the home of zombies (the shock of leaving the Temple of Time and seeing that was quite something) and you saw people around you getting better as you gradually faught back against him. In Wind Waker no one else seems to know what is going on and apart from one destroyed island and occasional monsters at sea the world seems at peace.

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And there's plenty to do whilst out on the sea, like getting those Rupees as they appear between the barrels, and hunting down the fish, and finding the island in each section. And the pirate ship!

But didn't the repetition of these events take you to a new level of fustration ?

Sail the boat, use the telescope, find the fish, sail to the fish, feed the fish - map marked ! Bugger...how many more squares to go ?

Again, "Ocarina of Time" scores points in this area - the level of repetion was way lower (using memory here as I've not got to any repetition at all yet in my Masterquest replaying).

Indeed.

I didn't do much of the extra stuff out on the sea until right near the end, so it became a bit of a chore. But because everything was 'gridded', I found I missed hardly anything, because it could be tackled sequentially. Compared to OoT where I found myself consistantly lost. Moreso with Majora's Mask as well.

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I really shdouldn't read this thread as I have assignments to do and the Zelda OOT is sitting temptingly behind me waiting for me to start playing it.

OOT has a magic that Wind Waker lacked. Perhaps it was the way you actually saw the destrucion of Hyrule thanks to Ganon (look what he did to the beautiful Hyrule Lake) and the real way it affected the people living there. The bustling Hyrule Market was now the home of zombies (the shock of leaving the Temple of Time and seeing that was quite something) and you saw people around you getting better as you gradually faught back against him. In Wind Waker no one else seems to know what is going on and apart from one destroyed island and occasional monsters at sea the world seems at peace.

Well spotted!

I hadn't considered that.

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Interestingly enough, as I'm playing OoT on my Gamecube I find myself repeating reaching for the C-Stick in an attempt to move the camera...only to find out I can't.

I reckon you never thought it necessary as the function wasn't there.

Once you have it you'd want to use it.

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OOT and Maj's mask are, imho, much more enjoyable than wind waker.

I played oot, then wind waker, then majs mask- so I dont have the rose tinted spectacles on.

OOT and majs mask had a much better sense of majesty and scale and much more variety. Protecting the dairy farm from ghosts at midnight is a superb , engrossing moment that wind waker doesnt have any of by comparison. Most of the island sub quests were incredibly tedious and souless.

Majs mask had a real sense of urgency and impending doom, didnt feel this in wind waker.

My main problem in wind waker was the lack of character back stories in comparison to OOT and majs mask. Pretty soon all i will remember of wind waker was the fantastic b&w section and endless sailing around

I also have no idea what was supposed to have happened anyway- Hyrule was flooded 100s of years ago?

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In Wind Waker no one else seems to know what is going on and apart from one destroyed island and occasional monsters at sea the world seems at peace.

Totally. You emerge from the Temple of Time seven years later in OoT and the beautiful world you left behind is utterly destroyed. I got a real feeling that something dark and sinister has decended upon the land.

Reminded me of when they announced on Blue Peter that the garden had been vandalised.

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OOT has a magic that Wind Waker lacked. Perhaps it was the way you actually saw the destrucion of Hyrule thanks to Ganon (look what he did to the beautiful Hyrule Lake) and the real way it affected the people living there. The bustling Hyrule Market was now the home of zombies (the shock of leaving the Temple of Time and seeing that was quite something) and you saw people around you getting better as you gradually faught back against him. In Wind Waker no one else seems to know what is going on and apart from one destroyed island and occasional monsters at sea the world seems at peace.

The story in Wind Waker was more about preventing Ganon from being able to do that to this world. The signs were a lot more subtle this time out, but a lot of people noticed that there was something going wrong, especially on Dragon Roost Island. I think it did a wonderful job of a sense of impending menace, rather like the sense of optomism that seems to spread when you start fighting back in Oracle of Time.

For me, the moments in Oracle of Time were just superior to those in Wind Waker. (Spoilers)Zelda's flight from Hyrule Castle was an event that was not rivalled, and the same applies to the death of the Deku Tree, and many more. These were the things that made OOT a better game for me.

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The Time Temple bit is superb! And everything from then on just keeps getting better and better!

Winder Waker is great, but doesn't quite compare. Liked the sailing though! Like a big (little) pirate adventure!

Yarrrrrr!

SPOLIER BELOW

The ageing sequence in the temple was stranglely moving, to a level that no other video game has ever reached.

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Surely nothing will ever match the initial impact that OOT had on most people. I know Wind Waker gave me a similar feeling (well, nearly...) the first time I wandered around its beautiful opening but it didn't last as long, as you've seen the same game mechanics and as soon as the familiarities kick in, its only excellent, not groundbreaking.

I regard WW as the best game on GC, and my favourite on any console this generation, but it will never be remembered as fondly as OOT.

Though I do prefer the Forest Haven to Kokiri :D and Windfall to Kakariko.

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Pfff. I hate these OoT love ins. The game is absolutely nothing on Majora's Mask, Lttp or even The Wind Waker.

Yup, I must be the only person on the planet that enjoyed WW more than OoT. I never got the "magic" of OoT, it singularly failed to recreate the magic I had with Lttp six years before. After 5 years of endless, pain staking waitng, it was a great let down. The Wind Waker I loved form go. It exudes charm, and I just had more fun. Gannon was the man in the game, he only made short appearances but, for me, stole the show. I really wish they'd give him his own game.

Obviously neither comes near Majora's or the daddy Lttp.

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Pfff. I hate these OoT love ins. The game is absolutely nothing on Majora's Mask, Lttp or even The Wind Waker.

Yup, I must be the only person on the planet that enjoyed WW more than OoT. I never got the "magic" of OoT..

There's no 'magic' there, just better designed dungeons, a less intrusive camera, and less wandering.

Obviously neither comes near Majora's or the daddy Lttp.

Can't say I enjoyed LttP anywhere near as much as Ocarina of Time. The combat is weak and for once I think the update to 3D actually had a clear positive influence, (complexity of the dungeons and the fantastic lock-on combat, etc.)

*shrugs*

Majora's Mask was genius though, but very annoying if you have loads of free time to put into it.

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I enjoyed Majora's Mask more than Ocarina Of Time, but I still think Ocarina Of Time is a better game. I also believe it is a better game than The Wind Waker.

I think Nintendo did exactly the right thing with The Wind Waker though. How could they expect to best Ocarina Of Time whilst retaining originality? With a miracle, and nothing else. As it is, The Wind Waker is different and innovative enough to be worth playing, even if it isn't as good as Ocarina Of Time.

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I think Nintendo did exactly the right thing with The Wind Waker though. How could they expect to best Ocarina Of Time whilst retaining originality? With a miracle, and nothing else. As it is, The Wind Waker is different and innovative enough to be worth playing, even if it isn't as good as Ocarina Of Time.

You are entirely correct.

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