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Halo 4 - It's the one before Halo 5


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The story really is a load of old cack, it always has been. Halo's story is like this to me:

Enter ancient gigantic structure

A magical floating key appears

Put magicial floating key into ancient old terminal

Watch some holographs float around in mid air while cortana talks incomprehensible shite

Uh-oh VIRUS/Self Destruct/Cortana has a headache

Vehicle dash to final

An explosion occurs

Can't wait for Halo 5!

Thank god the combat is fucking awesome as usual.

The only story I really enjoyed was the first one (what little of it there was) and Reach cus it had the balls to kill off your squad mates.

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Clearly everything - even the rubbishy forerunner grenades - have been turned over and considered far longer and by far more people than you or I.

Ah, I should probably stop criticising it - I had nothing to do with designing it, after all. That's a good one, I've got to remember that one.

So I'm prepared to run with it.

And of course, I just wasn't prepared to 'run with it' - despite seeing the game through to its conclusion. Stupid me, not running with things.

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Come on, can't he mention positives?

Of course he can, but a focus on the presentation is very telling to me.

And do you think telling me it's time to 'move on', because I have the sheer fucking impertinence to criticise the game, is fair? Is this thread only for uncritical reverence?

This is increasingly common on Rllmuk. Threads about subjects - electronics, trainers, tv shows - are dominated by people who shout down anyone who disagrees with the main vibe of the thread. Not just disagrees with them, but tells them to fuck off, shut up, calls them stupid or immature.

It's like you must accept THING X as your one true god or fuck off.

There's nothing sacred here. Halo is not sacred. Gameplay is king, and i'll take potshots at whatever I please.

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Of course he can, but a focus on the presentation is very telling to me.

And do you think telling me it's time to 'move on', because I have the sheer fucking impertinence to criticise the game, is fair? Is this thread only for uncritical reverence?

This is increasingly common on Rllmuk. Threads about subjects - electronics, trainers, tv shows - are dominated by people who shout down anyone who disagrees with the main vibe of the thread. Not just disagrees with them, but tells them to fuck off, shut up, calls them stupid or immature.

It's like you must accept THING X as your one true god or fuck off.

Nothing like that time you were a fucking Rottweiler in the Dead Space thread, then.

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Of course he can, but a focus on the presentation is very telling to me.

And do you think telling me it's time to 'move on', because I have the sheer fucking impertinence to criticise the game, is fair? Is this thread only for uncritical reverence?

This is increasingly common on Rllmuk. Threads about subjects - electronics, trainers, tv shows - are dominated by people who shout down anyone who disagrees with the main vibe of the thread. Not just disagrees with them, but tells them to fuck off, shut up, calls them stupid or immature.

It's like you must accept THING X as your one true god or fuck off.

There's nothing sacred here. Halo is not sacred. Gameplay is king, and i'll take potshots at whatever I please.

While I don't agree with your views on Halo, I think you're spot on here in almost every respect. I suggested something unpopular that i feel passionately about in the Resi 6 thread and was trolled out of the Topic for my troubles. Kind of disgusting behaviour on a videogame discussion forum.

That said, you do tend to be purposely flippant/sarcastic rather than respectful in your tone. I know that's all part of your schtick, and you probably don't mean anything by it, but it's easy to see how some people would take offence.

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Of course he can, but a focus on the presentation is very telling to me.

And do you think telling me it's time to 'move on', because I have the sheer fucking impertinence to criticise the game, is fair? Is this thread only for uncritical reverence?

This is increasingly common on Rllmuk. Threads about subjects - electronics, trainers, tv shows - are dominated by people who shout down anyone who disagrees with the main vibe of the thread. Not just disagrees with them, but tells them to fuck off, shut up, calls them stupid or immature.

It's like you must accept THING X as your one true god or fuck off.

There's nothing sacred here. Halo is not sacred. Gameplay is king, and i'll take potshots at whatever I please.

I just think you've done your grumbling tae f*ck mate. That's all really. You're just looking like constant contradiction for frictions sake. Also you're taking potshots at anything and everyone in here, which isn't much to do with Halo either.

Just because I didn't mention the gameplay doesn't mean I didn't appreciate it.

I'm not saying its sacred, nor am I saying that you shouldn't have voiced your opinion on said game. But you have. And then some. And then some more.

I know you love your opinion. We all know. Go find that landmine....

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I'm not saying its sacred, nor am I saying that you shouldn't have voiced your opinion on said game. But you have. And then some. And then some more.

Oh, is there a limit to the number posts you can make about a subject if your opinion isn't popular? I must have missed that memo.

Halo 4: Lensflare Evolved

Halo 4: Will This Do?

Halo 4: Electric Boogaloo

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That's the problem, isn't it? For anyone who's so enamoured of the (campaign) combat in CE that they describe it as 'perfection', any development is inevitably going to lead to its being tarnished: there will always be a downside, in terms of weapons, balance, feel, new enemies, adapted behaviour. On the other hand, sticking as closely to the original as possible - trying to recreate it but with new graphics - well, they've done that with Anniversary. So it's either move on - and change, and make things different from that 'perfection' - or make nothing new in the series at all.

I'm about 3/4 of the way through this campaign on Heroic, and for me it's striking a pretty decent balance: there's the new and the adapted (which there has to be to stop this being to 'been there, seen that', and there's also enough homage to CE to make it feel integrated. I actually agree with some of what Smitty says about the combat and enemies, but I don't feel nearly as bad about it. In fact I don't feel bad about it at all. I already know it won't replace CE as my favourite by far, but it's the best follow up so far. And that puts it second in the rankings, easily. Sure, I would (if I could) have done some things differently, but it's definitely got most of the CE feel to it, and in terms of atmosphere and exploration they've taken things back to that sense of alienness of CE, and that's wonderful. There are certain things I don't like but they're not game killers.

I think it's a great success, at least 3/4 of the way in on Heroic anyhow.

Oh yeah, I understand they've had to try new things and move the series on, but I'd love a brand new Halo game that uses exactly the same mechanics as the original. Everything from the enemy behaviour, to the weapon balance, to the grenade throwing trajectory and power, to the indestructible Warthog, to the static scenery. All it needs in my eyes is a new change of setting to freshen things up, as I've been through the original countless times. That to me would be perfection. They could even give some outsourced developer this job while they continue with the current Halo story if they like.
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Fair enough explanation, but you specifically said the gunplay and you haven't mentioned that once here. There's no way on earth the gunplay is better in Reach than the 'a perfect gun combination for every situation' that the original pioneered. And that's not taking into account grenades and melee either.

The balance of CE is so finely tuned that no matter what they did to introduce new elements it always unbalanced the stripped back purity of the original.

Yeah you're right. gameplay i should have said, not gunplay

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Oh yeah, I understand they've had to try new things and move the series on, but I'd love a brand new Halo game that uses exactly the same mechanics as the original. Everything from the enemy behaviour, to the weapon balance, to the grenade throwing trajectory and power, to the indestructible Warthog, to the static scenery. All it needs in my eyes is a new change of setting to freshen things up, as I've been through the original countless times. That to me would be perfection. They could even give some outsourced developer this job while they continue with the current Halo story if they like.

Even if your dream scenario was indulged - and I've often wanted the same thing, Halo CE with new levels - the reality would just never meet how great it is in our heads. Take the original setting and level design away and it's instantly not H:CE anymore and you'd find even more minute details to pick holes in than any of the sequels. I'd be the same. It's like those perfect debut albums or first films in a trilogy. 99% of the time the original is never bettered.

So embrace H4 for what it is and try to overlook some of the things that to you are flaws. It's just different. It has to be. Though I do agree that the weapon disappearing issue is a travesty and kind of makes me wonder if 343 really do get it as much as I thought they did.

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Even if your dream scenario was indulged - and I've often wanted the same thing, Halo CE with new levels - the reality would just never meet how great it is in our heads. Take the original setting and level design away and it's instantly not H:CE anymore and you'd find even more minute details to pick holes in than any of the sequels. I'd be the same. It's like those perfect debut albums or first films in a trilogy. 99% of the time the original is never bettered.

So embrace H4 for what it is and try to overlook some of the things that to you are flaws. It's just different. It has to be. Though I do agree that the weapon disappearing issue is a travesty and kind of makes me wonder if 343 really do get it as much as I thought they did.

I'm just dreaming, I'm quite happy with 4. It's certainly better than Reach (on first impressions at least), and it's a step in the right direction. I just got carried away imagining the original's mechanics in a brand new series of games. I don't agree it wouldn't be the same either. The one thing that the sequels did which made them feel different to the the original was change the mechanics and behaviour. I reckon if those were kept intact the scenery could be anything and it'd still play the same. Anyway... I need to stop dreaming and get back to 4.

Just imagine though...

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I've only played a few games of Infinity Slayer but I really like the MP so far. I've not played a multiplayer FPS for months but I love the way battles play out in Halo - there's so much strategy available because it's not Bang = Dead, and it almost always rewards thoughtful play and accurate shot placement over running around like a loon and being fastest on the trigger.

I've won numerous battles despite not firing first, because I've timed my shots and nailed the headshot after the shield pop, and it's that which makes every fight so potentially satisfying. Playing mind games on people by disappearing off the radar whilst they're hunting for you, and catching three people in a crossfire for a sweet triple kill makes even the basic gameplay hugely enjoyable.

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Whilst I absolutely adore what I've played so far, it definitely plays more like the sequels than the original. By that I mean how the majority of the combat as possible plays out over a medium/long distance with extremely accurate weapons, as opposed to CE where you were practically forced to go toe-to-toe by the nature of your arsenal. The dilution of Halo's combat, for me, is because the majority of the weapons are simply too effective.

Here's a hypothetical example; you spot across a group Covenant in the distance. Plenty of grunts, few jackals, few elites, a turret.

It's CE, you've got an assault rifle with a handful of either sniper or pistol bullets, which are sparing You use these whittle down a few priority targets, maybe one elite and a jackal or two, before you're forced to move in because everything else is useless over 20-30 feet. You ditch the ranged weapon for something plasma and mop up the rest by getting up close and personal, sticky on the turret, spraying the fuck out of the grunts, smash a few jackals in the face, intense cat and mouse game with that last pissed off elite who took your shield and is intent on chasing you down. There's neon blood fucking everywhere.

It's Halo 2/3/ODST/Reach/4, you've got an assault rifle and a battle rifle/covenant carbine. You pick off 80% of the bad guys from the distance, head-shotting every grunt and jackal with ruthless efficiency, occasionally dipping into cover to recharge your shield. You're never in any real danger unless you get too brazen. You stroll up afterwards, pick off the last two on their own, restock your ammo and move on. Rinse and repeat for 90% of the game.

Thing is, all these guns they've added, they're fun to use. You want to use them because they're so good, it feels great to headshot a whole squad of grunts from miles away. So that's what you do, every single time, because the game lets you play that way. And it's fun, but it's not showing off the full potential of their own combat engine, nor is it offering that sheer visceral thrill of pulling the trigger and watching something get blown away which pretty much only Halo and FEAR have managed (honourary mention for Max Payne 3 here).

Whenever you do decide to shake things up, run in and try and melee a few fools on Legendary like the good old days, by the time you've had your arse handed to you it's inevitable that you'll end up falling back and playing it safe again, because it's technically the 'best' way to play the game and has been ever since they introduced the battle rifle and its derivatives.

I'll reiterate though, that's not to say I'm not loving it. It's fantastic and the atmosphere is immense, something that's been lacking for me since Delta Halo back in 2. I also admire how the general sparseness of ballistic ammo has placed a much higher emphasis on mixing and matching the full range of weapons.

Excellent post. I've been so focused on other (equally valid, IMO) aspects of CE that this hadn't even occurred to me.

The medium-range weapons really did change the flow of the game, now I think about it. Even if the pistol in CE does more or less the same job as the BR/DMR, the small clip and limited ammo made picking off enemies at-distance something of a rare treat, in the grand scheme of the game.

It probably made it much harder too. In Halo 4, I used long-range weapons to keep stronger enemies at a safe distance from me, whilst still being able to chip away at their health. And since there's plenty of ammo lying around for these weapons, I almost never found myself wanting for more. If this had been CE, I would've been forced to get up in their faces with stuff like the plasma rifle or assault rifle. These weapons still have a purpose, but when you can play the long-range game for the duration, is there any point?

Again, good post. Very enlightening.

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Whilst I absolutely adore what I've played so far, it definitely plays more like the sequels than the original. By that I mean how the majority of the combat as possible plays out over a medium/long distance with extremely accurate weapons, as opposed to CE where you were practically forced to go toe-to-toe by the nature of your arsenal. The dilution of Halo's combat, for me, is because the majority of the weapons are simply too effective.

Here's a hypothetical example; you spot across a group Covenant in the distance. Plenty of grunts, few jackals, few elites, a turret.

It's CE, you've got an assault rifle with a handful of either sniper or pistol bullets, which are sparing You use these whittle down a few priority targets, maybe one elite and a jackal or two, before you're forced to move in because everything else is useless over 20-30 feet. You ditch the ranged weapon for something plasma and mop up the rest by getting up close and personal, sticky on the turret, spraying the fuck out of the grunts, smash a few jackals in the face, intense cat and mouse game with that last pissed off elite who took your shield and is intent on chasing you down. There's neon blood fucking everywhere.

It's Halo 2/3/ODST/Reach/4, you've got an assault rifle and a battle rifle/covenant carbine. You pick off 80% of the bad guys from the distance, head-shotting every grunt and jackal with ruthless efficiency, occasionally dipping into cover to recharge your shield. You're never in any real danger unless you get too brazen. You stroll up afterwards, pick off the last two on their own, restock your ammo and move on. Rinse and repeat for 90% of the game.

Thing is, all these guns they've added, they're fun to use. You want to use them because they're so good, it feels great to headshot a whole squad of grunts from miles away. So that's what you do, every single time, because the game lets you play that way. And it's fun, but it's not showing off the full potential of their own combat engine, nor is it offering that sheer visceral thrill of pulling the trigger and watching something get blown away which pretty much only Halo and FEAR have managed (honourary mention for Max Payne 3 here).

Whenever you do decide to shake things up, run in and try and melee a few fools on Legendary like the good old days, by the time you've had your arse handed to you it's inevitable that you'll end up falling back and playing it safe again, because it's technically the 'best' way to play the game and has been ever since they introduced the battle rifle and its derivatives.

I'll reiterate though, that's not to say I'm not loving it. It's fantastic and the atmosphere is immense, something that's been lacking for me since Delta Halo back in 2. I also admire how the general sparseness of ballistic ammo has placed a much higher emphasis on mixing and matching the full range of weapons.

Just like to say that this post is a great observation! Absolutely can see what you mean, really great post!

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Whilst there are more options at long range now, is everyone forgetting the death dealing pistol from the first game? You could take out entire legions from miles away with that as you could carry over a hundred bullets for it. For God's sake, you could pretty much noob combo the entire game.

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