Jump to content

Star Trek Into Darkness - Full Trailer Post #256


Recommended Posts

Having Uhuru in the final damp squib showdown was a pretty bold move, but they should really have had her say "translate this!" or something sassy like that.

It would have been a good complement to her characterisation otherwise in this film, which was to play a shrew.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason for Praxis being blowed up ahead of schedule is something to do with the Klingons mining the living fuck out of it far faster for some reason or other.

There's fan speculation that the burnt-out hulk is Praxis, but it's not confirmed. The destruction of Praxis removed Qo'noS's ozone layer in the original timeline, which clearly isn't the case in STID. Although it may have been intended to be Praxis, it could equally have been another moon or near planet object.

Here's a question: What did old Spock tell young Spock? It's implied that old Spock tips him off on how to defeat Khan, but his defeat in Space Seed is pure luck (McGivers frees Kirk and he hits Khan with a space spanner thing) and TWOK is the result of Khan's inexperience in space combat. Although it's a logical thing to do (use old Spock as an information source), it doesn't really help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So.. went to see this... Is anyone else bummed out by the last omg how is that even logical sodding miracle they said fixed the you know what . Argh. I was cursing in the theater, it upset me that much. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think about it too much - just accept that there can be a worse Trek movie than Insurrection and ST5 combined, and swear never to pay to see a movie scripted by those chucklehead fucks ever again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's fan speculation that the burnt-out hulk is Praxis, but it's not confirmed. The destruction of Praxis removed Qo'noS's ozone layer in the original timeline, which clearly isn't the case in STID. Although it may have been intended to be Praxis, it could equally have been another moon or near planet object.

Here's a question: What did old Spock tell young Spock? It's implied that old Spock tips him off on how to defeat Khan, but his defeat in Space Seed is pure luck (McGivers frees Kirk and he hits Khan with a space spanner thing) and TWOK is the result of Khan's inexperience in space combat. Although it's a logical thing to do (use old Spock as an information source), it doesn't really help.

Not that I want to defend the movie particularly but...

Khan wasn't defeated in TWOK because he was an inexperienced starship captain. Well he was. But you have to look as to why he was even in the Mutara Nebula to see the real reason for his defeat - his er, wrath. Khan could have left with Genesis but didn't because Kirk taunted him.

Old Spock probably filled his younger self in on Khan's character flaws that made him beatable in the past - in particular he was remarkably easy to trick due to his overconfidence. The scene where Spock beams the torpedoes aboard his ship was clearly intended as a mirror to the scene in TWOK where Kirk disables the Reliant's shields (ship is damaged, playing for time e.t.c). You also have Spock's exaggerations ("by the book" e.t.c). And was probably inspired by the information he had received from Old Spock.

Honestly it is probably one of the only things in the movie that made sense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree with the Bond analogy, but I think I agree that the relationships between Spock and Kirk and Kirk and Harrison would have had more resonance if they'd had an intervening film to breathe in.

Edit -- or, y'know, three seasons of a TV show. I'm not convinced Trek can really work as a one-movie-every-other-year thing. There's just not enough of it to convey the sense of richness and variety we associate with the TV shows.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trek is so burdened with history now. The first Abrams film made things feel fresh briefly by casting off a lot of the weight and being a bit of fluff. I thought maybe they'd continue in the same vein of pastiching the sillier elements like green women and Kirk in topless arena fights, but for the second outing but we already seem to be absolutely mired in stolid lore and confused writing.

This series should be like a palate cleanser for a few years before it's time for the Next Next Generation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only just saw this tonight.

I'm a pretty big Trek fan and I LOVED it.

Yes, there are plot holes, but they are FAR smaller than anything in the Avengers or Iron Man 3 - both of which I liked a lot - though probably not as much as Into Darkness.

Yep, I'm pretty much in the same boat. I thought it was frigging awesome.

Well, I'd not really say I was ever Star Trek fan, but my brother was, so we had to watch it all the time, and so I know the characters and stories pretty well.

I thought I'd come in here to find a big love in of the film. How wrong I was.

I don't remember noticing any plot holes at the time, the only thing a didn't quite like was just how obvious it was what was going to happen with Kirk.

But yeah, I thought it was awesome. Felt quite exhausted afterwards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So last week I watched Star Trek 2: Into Darkness. And this weekend I watched Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan. I'm not convinced the earlier film held up as well as I was expecting, to be honest. It had many of the same issues that bothered me about STID e.g. "Only the under-equipped Enterprise can deal with this emergency because apparently StarFleet has no other ships". It had two instances of characters spouting exposition that they shouldn't have known about [1] and a big emotional reveal

ZOMG! Kirk has a son! Who hates him! But now he's earned his respect!

that felt just as flat as

ZOMG! Spock is dead!

Hmmm. It's not like I disagree with the criticism of STID; I thought it was a solid enough three-out-of-five popcorn movie but no more. It's just that The Wrath Of Khan wasn't nearly as good as I remember.

[1]

Checkov starts to say that Khan blames Kirk for the death of his wife after being marooned; Kirk interrupts him saying that he "knows what Khan blames me for" but there was no way he could have known about Khan's wife. It happened after Space Seed.

I can't remember off-hand what the other instance was, but it was similar.

Has anyone else seen tWoK recently? Do you agree?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw it the other night. It's definitely a far superior film to this new one, but I wouldn't put it in my top ten of all time or anything.

I guess Kirk just assumes that

he's talking about the marooning thing, and doesn't particularly care about the details because he's got his fight on. Either that, or Khaaaaaan told him in a deleted scene.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think about it too much - just accept that there can be a worse Trek movie than Insurrection and ST5 combined, and swear never to pay to see a movie scripted by those chucklehead fucks ever again.

See, I don't hold Insurrection as being that bad. It's basically a TV movie with the terrible tropes of the TNG films patched on top (Picard being an action hero, Data being off-character most of the time, the rest of the crew being reduced to bit parts, etc) but at least it is recognisably Trek. The plot is based around a moral dilemma of the week, there is a bit of space exploration and discovery of a plot device based on an fairly unoriginal sci-fi concept, it's Star Trek basically. Couldn't really say the same of STID.

(Still, the original plans for Insurrection that Patrick Stewart nixed would have lead to a much better film, let's be honest.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought in 2 they were on a training voyage, then they get a distress call from the space station (not necessarily anything too serious) and Kirk then takes command, en route they get ganked by the Reliant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every week the crew of the Enterprise run into some new subspace virus or something that nearly wipes them all out, and the only reason they escape by the skin of their teeth each time is because the flagship has the finest crew in Starfleet. Bearing that in mind, along with the fact that the ships sent to stop the Borg cube in Best of Both Worlds lasted approximately five seconds, it's pretty obvious why you never get other starships flying out to sort things out. They'd just end up being destroyed by four dimensional alien intelligence trapped in the Warp Core or something.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought in 2 they were on a training voyage, then they get a distress call from the space station (not necessarily anything too serious) and Kirk then takes command, en route they get ganked by the Reliant.

Exactly that. From the wiki: The Enterprise embarks on a three week training voyage under the command of Captain Spock. Kirk assumes command of the Enterprise after the ship receives a distress call from Regula I and goes on active duty. En route, the Enterprise is ambushed by the Reliant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure. It's on a training jaunt around Pluto with a crew of not-yet-graduated cadets and old geezers. So why is it answering distress calls around some other planet in some other star system? Is it really the best ship to be doing that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So last week I watched Star Trek 2: Into Darkness. And this weekend I watched Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan. I'm not convinced the earlier film held up as well as I was expecting, to be honest. It had many of the same issues that bothered me about STID e.g. "Only the under-equipped Enterprise can deal with this emergency because apparently StarFleet has no other ships". It had two instances of characters spouting exposition that they shouldn't have known about [1] and a big emotional reveal

ZOMG! Kirk has a son! Who hates him! But now he's earned his respect!

that felt just as flat as

ZOMG! Spock is dead!

Hmmm. It's not like I disagree with the criticism of STID; I thought it was a solid enough three-out-of-five popcorn movie but no more. It's just that The Wrath Of Khan wasn't nearly as good as I remember.

[1]

Checkov starts to say that Khan blames Kirk for the death of his wife after being marooned; Kirk interrupts him saying that he "knows what Khan blames me for" but there was no way he could have known about Khan's wife. It happened after Space Seed.

I can't remember off-hand what the other instance was, but it was similar.

Has anyone else seen tWoK recently? Do you agree?

I watch The Wrath of Khan at least once a year, usually two or three times. It is a go-to movie for me and in my view up there with Raiders of the Lost Ark as the 'perfect' adventure movie.

I've never really got why people get so worked up about the Enterprise being the only ship close enough to assist. It is a coincidence yes but you have to allow for it otherwise you wouldn't have a plot besides coincidences to happen (that's why we have a word for it), it is only bad writing when you keep using them, you're allowed to use one or two to set the story in motion.

There is so much more to the movie than niggly details. It is well directed, it is economical, it is well paced, it has interesting and meaningful themes (remember those?), the acting is inexplicably good for something with William Shatner in (apparently on the hundredth take exhaustion reduces the overacting), a brilliant score and some neat design choices. Everyone involved was at the top of their game.

But because the aspies always get hung up on the Enterprise answering a distress call consider this: Genesis was being worked on in a remote part of space, far away from the federation the scientists don't completely trust and presumably far away from Klingons or Romulans or any other space empire. When asked for a heading Sulu is instructed to indulge himself - it figures that Sulu would choose to go a place relatively safe for a training voyage - but also remote enough to fulfil his sense of adventure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never really got why people get so worked up about the Enterprise being the only ship close enough to assist. It is a coincidence yes but you have to allow for it otherwise you wouldn't have a plot besides coincidences to happen (that's why we have a word for it), it is only bad writing when you keep using them, you're allowed to use one or two to set the story in motion.

Oh, I don't mind it. It's just I was quite hard on STID for it, but in hindsight it's essentially baked in Star Trek's DNA so I should have given the latest film a break.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a distress call. Dr Marcus gets in touch with Kirk spacifically and the call is disrupted by interference partway through. Kirk checks in with Starfleet Command, who presumably grant his request to check it out personally because its his ex and also because his name was invoked. The only mistake is that they don't try to contact the Reliant, the ship that is on assignment to Regula 1, first.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what bothers people is that they discuss it with Starfleet (supposedly, it happens off screen - Kirk could have lied and wanted to investigate because of his personal ties with Marcus) and they instruct them to investigate as they are the only/closest ship in the quadrant.

I suppose they could have put a scene in where they try and contact the Reliant before heading there - but they don't show the communication with Starfleet why show that? This is kind of the issue - if you want a perfectly explained movie then you have to sacrifice things like pacing and entertainment value. After The Motion Picture I think Meyer understandably wanted to keep Khan right the fuck away from that.

Into Darkness by comparison actually quite likes to have scenes of pointless exposition to handwave their plot decisions. Those grate far more than some stuff not being fully explained in Khan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.