The Next Gen consoles

[Masu]

Also there is the price- the pad itself, the console streaming tech, the replacement / additional pads.. the batteries/charge times too.

Added to this is, assuming all three do go this route, the non-standard resolutions and different screen sizes. Development teams will be hit by costs for each format (more than usual, anyhow) and the last thing studios need in these tight financial times is additional expense.

The other thing I am a little worried about is the lag. I have briefly used a Wii U and didn't notice any, but I wasn't looking for it at the time. Is there any delay? And will Sony and MS fare better/worse?

It could be a great idea, and of course until we get them in our sweaty hands we wont really know for sure but to me, as we discuss this, it seems a bit of a Playstation Move.. Kinnect.. gimmick.

[Alex W.]

I would be really surprised if it was anything but a Move-style optional controller and a hedge against WiiU popularity. Sony had been working on Move for a while when the Wii came out and quite conspicuously did not announce it until they saw how people liked Nintendo's take.

WiiU lag is less than a frame I think.

[Alex W.]

(Vita as a WiiU-style controller is dead in the water as an alternative though. Nintendo and Sony's constant failure to get the idea to work with developers or the public, after countless iterations and even in the face of total ubiquity of the DS and Wii last gen, shows that.)

[esar]

This mock up of the DS4 has appeared:

Do people really think this is real? Someone has just Photoshopped the Vita sticks/dpad/buttons onto a Wii-U Pad and bodged the Vita screen onto it. You can even see the where the two pictures join along the bottom edge as its so badly Photoshopped.

[RubberJohnny]

People know that image is a mockup, but the Sixaxis is precedent of Sony ripping off Nintendos controller hastily and poorly, so the actual idea that they'd make something like that is oddly plausible.

[esar]

People know that image is a mockup, but the Sixaxis is precedent of Sony ripping off Nintendos controller hastily and poorly, so the actual idea that they'd make something like that is oddly plausible.

Ah, I must have got the wrong end of the stick.

I hope they do rip off the WiiU controller as its great, but I cant see them going down that route if they are producing a powerhouse console (which they will 'cos Sony need to be seen as being at the cutting edge of technology) as we'd all need to win the lottery to afford it and they wont sell any, as has already been mentioned.

[DocG]

Also there is the price- the pad itself, the console streaming tech, the replacement / additional pads.. the batteries/charge times too.

Excellent point. I've replaced four 360 pads over the years because of wear to the joysticks. Having to replace an expensive and still-fine touchscreen just because the stick has worn out would be most vexing.

[Robo_1]

The biometrics rumour is probably the most interesting part of the report. I struggle to think of what type of functionality a biometric controller would bring to games though.

[Alex W.]

Given Sony's current reputation I'm sure people are expecting per-user game DRM.

UNAUTHORISED PLAYER. ACCESS DENIED!

[b00dles]

The biometrics rumour is probably the most interesting part of the report. I struggle to think of what type of functionality a biometric controller would bring to games though.

There was a lot of chat in the Valve thread about biometrics doing stuff like making the game harder or easier depending on what it's detecting. Presumably heart rate or something, I'm not too sure what you actually 'get' from biometrics. What happens if you try to play when drunk?

[Uzi]

A controller like that would be awesome, but surely it isn't financially feasible? There were news stories going around that Nintendo wouldn't be making much profit, or even a loss on Wii U units despite the high retail price. Apparently this was due to the controller? Even if that was bollocks how could Sony push out the GDDR5, multi core etc powerful console and a screen controller without charging a silly amount or making a silly loss?

Also why copy the Wii U? A screen in a pad is a great idea, but so far sales wise, it hasn't really caught on.

[Smitty]

Not convinced by this whole screen-in-pad thing.

Anyway, it seems unlikely to me - a beastly spec console AND a pad with a screen in it? Sounds way, way too expensive.

The WiiU can do it because it's low spec with consequently cheaper internals. They've got more budget as it were per console unit to spend on the WiiU's big and presumably expensive pad.

Surely Sony cannot do both?

[Alex W.]

A recession-busting "three-jobs" console.

[Dandy_Sephy]

Putting a screen in the pad will just make the Vita an even harder sell that its proving and the extra tech needed to make it work will push the price up. For Nintendo they have basically moved some of the cost from the main unit to the gamepad, Sony's more power focused approach means they can't do that. Possibly some form of custom screen for status display perhaps, but I'm not sure what benefit that would have.

As for Biometrics, I'm sure I recall Sony applying for a related patent, but it strikes me as something that isn't necessarily for inclusion in a console and more a result of normal R&D (Eyetoy was in R&D for years before being turned into a working product)

[SMD]

A Sony screen controller is basically begging to stick the knife in the Vita, if they can manage a pricecut for the basic model in the run up to whatever the next console is, it might convince people it's worth the investment to have an upgraded Wii U experience that can go wherever you do (ish).

So yeah, not happening either way I think.

[Orbital2060]

I would be really surprised if it was anything but a Move-style optional controller and a hedge against WiiU popularity. Sony had been working on Move for a while when the Wii came out and quite conspicuously did not announce it until they saw how people liked Nintendo's take.

WiiU lag is less than a frame I think.

This has become something of an internet myth. After the success of the Wii, Sony claims to have been working on Move for a while, but all it seems to amount to are some short-lived experiments in 2001. You can not under-estimate the effort going into green-lighting a project like the Wii, and Sony once again seem to do what they do best; copy what innovations other companies make. They will probably try to do the same thing with the PS4, and perhaps use their recently purchased streaming software to fashion a similar setup to the Wii U.

The Wii U/Gpad lag is supposed to be exactly one frame.

[Alex W.]

This has become something of an internet myth. After the success of the Wii, Sony claims to have been working on Move for a while, but all it seems to amount to are some short-lived experiments in 2001.

They patented the Move controller's position tracking aspect the summer before the Wii Remote was revealed. I'm not arguing that Move wasn't reactionary, just that Sony is knocking out stuff like this and angling it to cover its bases against its competitors all the time. It's not always going to lead to an actual product.

[rgraves]

The WiiU can do it because it's low spec with consequently cheaper internals.

Apart from the fact that the tech to enable the pad to work as well as it does is anything but old and low tech really. I think people seriously underestimate what Nintendo have done with the Gamepad, it's a very solid implementation which could easily have been much less impressive than it actually is.

Bottom line: visuals ≠ total tech

[Ferine]

I suppose we could all have the wrong end of the stick. We're thinking of the supposed screen as an auxiliary display, but what if it takes the place of the face buttons?

Games would be able to adjust — and label — available inputs depending on its requirements, removing some of the intimidation factor of a traditional controller, whilst modern haptic feedback would still allow you to discern said inputs via feel alone. Such a device could trade on existing touchscreen literacy for simpler tasks/games whilst retaining the scope for complexity of a traditional controller and beyond; no more on-screen keyboards, your controller just turns into one when needed. You'd probably still want it to have physical sticks and triggers, but if the rest of the controller's face was adaptable it would be a very versatile device.

That said, I'm not really suggesting the above is a realistic proposition for the time being; there's a long list of more likely scenarios, so I'm certainly not putting money down. Not to say it's entirely baseless, but I'd guess such hardware isn't really commercially viable yet. I genuinely think it could make for a great, interesting controller, though.

[Alex W.]

No no no no no. Touchscreen controls actually work better for analogue sticks than buttons, because you can go by relative positioning so it doesn't matter if you lose track of the postion of your thumbs. With buttons you're either touching the right spot or doing it wrong. Also it doesn't matter if you rest your thumb on the screen for a stick, that's just centering the stick, but have to keep your thumbs away from the screen for buttons.

The best use of a dual-stick control scheme on a touchscreen was Dead Space and had no on-screen buttons to press. Touching anywhere did shooting, everything else was swipes and sticks.

[Smitty]

Apart from the fact that the tech to enable the pad to work as well as it does is anything but old and low tech really. I think people seriously underestimate what Nintendo have done with the Gamepad, it's a very solid implementation which could easily have been much less impressive than it actually is.

Bottom line: visuals ≠ total tech

Oh no doubt, but I was talking about the console innards, ie CPU/GPU.

[Orbital2060]

They patented the Move controller's position tracking aspect the summer before the Wii Remote was revealed. I'm not arguing that Move wasn't reactionary, just that Sony is knocking out stuff like this and angling it to cover its bases against its competitors all the time. It's not always going to lead to an actual product.

I would need some kind of citation to believe this was connected with the development of the so-called Move. As far as I know, Sony did not start developing the Move for commercial use until 2008. The positioning system sounds like something that may have worked for the EyeToy as well.

[Alex W.]

Move's positioning system is based around Eyetoy; the camera tracks the wand. That's only one component of course. New Scientist reported on the "coloured light for tracking the position of a cursor" patent in the summer of 2005, there's probably some blog reporting on it from that period.

This is all rather besides my point, which is that Sony develops stuff all the time and doesn't necessarily turn it into a product in a timely fashion or at all.

[Ferine]

No no no no no. Touchscreen controls actually work better for analogue sticks than buttons, because you can go by relative positioning so it doesn't matter if you lose track of the postion of your thumbs. With buttons you're either touching the right spot or doing it wrong. Also it doesn't matter if you rest your thumb on the screen for a stick, that's just centering the stick, but have to keep your thumbs away from the screen for buttons.

Well, one use of biometric sensors is to measure applied pressure. Presumably you could couple that with a haptic touchscreen to provide virtual buttons that need to be pressed, not brushed.

Realistically we aren't going to get anything so fancy, but it's fun to speculate.

[Orbital2060]

Move's positioning system is based around Eyetoy; the camera tracks the wand. That's only one component of course. New Scientist reported on the "coloured light for tracking the position of a cursor" patent in the summer of 2005, there's probably some blog reporting on it from that period.

This is all rather besides my point, which is that Sony develops stuff all the time and doesn't necessarily turn it into a product in a timely fashion or at all.

That sounds very much like the "Magic Duel" tech demo Sony presented in 2001. From the wiki entry :

Research on the PlayStation Move began as early as 2001, stemming from parallel development of the EyeToy which was eventually released in 2003. An early prototype version of the Move was demonstrated in a technology demo known as "Magic Duel" in 2001,^[41] in which developers experimented with color-based 3D controller tracking,^[42] including prototypes using spheres.^{[fn 3]} In 2008 Sony began work on developing a commercial product, integrating inertial sensors into the motion controller, and refining the device from an engineering and a design perspective.^[17]

Nothing in the period from 2001-2008. Further citation needed.

[SMD]

Or start another thread.

[mushashi]

Do we have any idea what sort of window we're expecting for announcements to be made? What is there before E3? GDC?

If you believe Game Informer (which is now (probably) the world's best selling games magazine, in the age of the internet and instant information aswell, who would of thunk it), around GDC, though other people say potentially earlier for Sony.

Sony and Microsoft are preparing "special Apple-style press conferences" to reveal their next-generation consoles "near the Game Developers Conference in late March", a new Game Informer report has alleged.

The magazine suggests that both platform holders will reveal the hardware around GDC, which takes place in San Francisco between March 25-29, before showing off next-gen titles at E3.

"We hear that both Sony and Microsoft are targeting special Apple-style press conferences to unveil their platforms near the Game Developers Conference in late March," reads the report in the magazine's February 2013 issue.

"E3 in June may be the industry's biggest event, but both companies want to give their systems their own limelight.

"That doesn't mean E3 won't be without its surprises. Next-gen games will be announced at the convention in preparation for the systems' release at the end of the year."

The magazine also suggests that PlayStation 4, rumoured to be codenamed Orbis, may be targeting a release ahead of Microsoft's next-generation Xbox.

"We hear that Sony in particular is determined not to come out last this time like the PlayStation 3 did this generation, so we'll have to see how soon it can get the PlayStation 4 out the door, and whether Microsoft is motivated to prevent this from happening."

[Smitty]

Showing stuff before GDC

Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true

[SMD]

Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true Please be true

If we're getting an announcement this year then I would expect to hear something around then. It makes sense if it's true that Microsoft are aiming for a Holiday release window.

Announce around March, unveil at E3, campaign after E3 till release in November.

Sony would have to unveil at the same time otherwise they'll lose ground on both companies and that's just too difficult for them, I reckon.

[Alex W.]

That sounds very much like the "Magic Duel" tech demo Sony presented in 2001. From the wiki entry :

Nothing in the period from 2001-2008. Further citation needed.

Not to derail the thread further but Magic Duel used giant foam objects which really should've been part of the Eyetoy experience.

Like I say, it doesn't make the actual Move controller any less reactionary. It just means that not every Nintendo-esque thing Sony has in the lab is going to lead to a Nintendo-aping product. Sometimes it's just research.

Fuck yeah, GDC.