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Dishonored - Definitive Edition - now 60fps on Xbox Series


The Sarge
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I'm having more and more fun with this the more I let my hair down and just play it. It's very tempting to reload and reload again when you don't get something exactly right, but unless I'm experimenting I just let it play out now. So be it stealth, armed combat, sword fighting, whatever. I won't deliberately get into a scrap but I've found the game gives you more than enough tools to deal with any given situation. It's really very solid and satisfying.

This, this, this.

I was gradually falling in to the reload trap unless things played out as I envisaged/wanted but that is just boring in the end and begins to chip away at your enjoyment imo. Just see how it plays out and this then forces you to use different abilities on the fly and really enhances your enjoyment of the game. This also solves the issue Morrius highlighted of throwing lots of 'abilities at you without explaining why you wouldn't just shoot the bad dudes' as you have to start using them. There's plenty of time to go back and replay each of the missions for that ghost or total psycho run after.

Just finished Sokolov's mission on the bridge and it just gets better and better. Wonderful stuff. :)

Gonna start with this tomorrow! :) Looking forward to it. One question though: is the game as grey as most of the screenshots I've seen are making this out to be? The characters look really colourful thankfully, both visually and character-wise, but the world does come across quite depressive, despite the impressive art style.

Absolutely not. Drenched in subdued colour, looks beautiful. So many stunning views. :)

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Glad to hear that :) This is sounding better by the minute.

But bear in mind that you'll be exploring a world ravaged by plague; a place full of perverts and drug addicts - and they're the lucky ones. The rest go around puking blood.

It is beautiful though in its decaying opulence.

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I agreed wholeheartedly with Rab. Quantity is never as important as quality. For instance, bungy jumping cost me 80 euros last year. According to your logic, it would've been the ripoff of the century since the actual experience was really damn short.

No, because you're taking something I said about games and applying it to something completely unrelated, unless you're telling me you'd pay £80 for a 30 second long videogame. It's a total red herring. A £40 price tag carries certain expectations because we're no longer living in a time when all games cost £40, and even £40 games drop steeply after a couple of weeks. The all about the games man (mang) attitude is misguided because it implies people who take value into account care less about their games, which isn't true at all. Play one 4-hour* blockbuster game for £40, or play ten inventive struggling indie games for the same amount? How about contributing a fiver to eight exciting-sounding Kickstarter projects instead? You see my point. 'Value' doesn't have to be a selfish proposition.

*I know Dishonored is not 4 hours long

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Anyone that rushed through this in 4 hours is a fucking idiot.

RE: no kills etc - fuck that. My motto for this game is 'By any means necessary'.

My Pattern of play seems to be

Enter new area

Use the farsight type power to scout out enemies

creep around exploring and collecting trinkets

get a couple of stealth kills

get spotted

get mobbed by bunch of guards

<flurry of swords>

Walk out with 4 dead bodies strewn across the floor.

I do try to be a silent ninja but, when the shit hits the fan, its not overly difficult just to butcher everyone

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Just running through the High Overseer missions is taking way longer [than 4 hours]. But I'm trying for a no kills/stealth mission, and I'm making a lot of use of the autosaves when spotted, which is niggling me.

I think I should have played it like I played the first Deus Ex - non-lethal unless spotted, then it's them or me, reload only on my untimely demise. Ah well, I'll see how it pans out.

Although I wish I hadn't seen that extra request from Granny through to the end.

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I just finished my third mission and it wasn't as good as the previous two. The main problems were the A.I. and the lack of any proper challenge.

A.I. was really, really stupid in almost everything. I dispatched soldiers who were previously having conversations and their alive comrades didn't find it curious. The "important thing" they were guarding just "stopped" working and no one gave a shit. They found a body and were like "what? who?", searched a bit and then didn't care (they didn't even revived him while he was unconsious!). Their general curiosity as to what's going on was really limited and their line of vision just messed up (you can't see me when I'm RIGHT beside you because you are looking at the front? Really?)

By lack of proper challenge I mean... there was no challenge at all. Everything just seemed to be there for experimentation, nothing more. There's literally no need to stealth in this other than just discovering what the design offers. Corvo is such a strong character that he doesn't need to stealth. He can just use his powers to dispatch everyone in a couple of seconds. The A.I. placement/variety also doesn't tie with the design. Why do I need to discover a more dangerous path, when I don't have to avoid a more dangerous enemy? Yeah, you do it just for fun, sure, but I want something more when I'm doing stealth. In the Splinter Cell series, for example,you needed to be stealthy because you were so vulnerable. You made a mistake and enemies were vesting up and became more aware. In this, you make a mistake and you can completely get away with it (except when you are too close and enemies just... rush you). If it wasn't for some random changes in the patrolling paths and some "opening of doors" the A.I. would be completely boring. I get it that this is not a proper stealth game but it's clearly designed to be more stealthy than actiony. it's unacceptable that the A.I. is less advanced than a previous gen game.

On a positive note, the sense of scale in the mission was fine and the dumping of bodies in the river never gets old.

But GOTY? 9s and 10s? I don't know. There are times that this feels like such a game but there are more times that it doesn't. So I'm hoping that I'm still at the start and it hasn't thrown in my face its best weapons yet.

Generally though this certainly feels like something that the press scored more just to help it make more sales so we can have more games like it. If that's the case, that's fine by me. :)

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Game seems to be doing well. Best new IP opening of the year in the UK, topping Sleeping Dogs, according to the GfK chart. Considering almost anybody that I know who bought the game is playing the PC version (which is not tracked), this is good news for Arkane.

Anyway, I'm really loving this. Decided to start on Very Hard and switch off the entire UI, with health and mana contextual. Makes for a brilliant game of exploration, in particular when you're trying to ghost your way through. The AI is rather deadly as well, which is nice. They spot you fairly easy if you're not careful and can kill you in abnout two hits.

It's taking me ages to get through the first real chapter, but I'm loving that. Exploring every crook and nanny, fucking up and trying again and discovering something new each time, from books and treasures to little scripted events and even entirely new places. I made a monumental fuck-up by

killing the Overseer and working my way back to the start, only to find out I forgot to loot his journal

, but it doesn't bother me. It's wonderful to just explore the world, try new stuff, find new things, listen to the NPC conversations (which are very good most of the time) and learn more about events in the world. As RJ said, it does navigation really well. You can blink to almost everywhere and the climbing is very well done. It's almost unfortunate that I play it stealthy as I love that slide he does after a sprint.

I might go for the 'don't load save after fucking up and fight my way' approach as well, not sure yet. But yeah, excellent game. And considering I just completed Mark of the Ninja, Walking Dead Episode 4 and still playing Sleeping Dogs and Borderlands 2, it's not a bad time to be a gamer. And The Unfinished Swan is almost out as well...

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No, because you're taking something I said about games and applying it to something completely unrelated, unless you're telling me you'd pay £80 for a 30 second long videogame. It's a total red herring. A £40 price tag carries certain expectations because we're no longer living in a time when all games cost £40, and even £40 games drop steeply after a couple of weeks. The all about the games man (mang) attitude is misguided because it implies people who take value into account care less about their games, which isn't true at all. Play one 4-hour* blockbuster game for £40, or play ten inventive struggling indie games for the same amount? How about contributing a fiver to eight exciting-sounding Kickstarter projects instead? You see my point. 'Value' doesn't have to be a selfish proposition.

*I know Dishonored is not 4 hours long

Is it still the case that ICO proves all complaints about game length wrong?If its good enough its worth the money. But of course that's a subjective opinion.

Anyway, on to Dishonoured and I'm liking, it, really liking it. But not loving it. There's somethign missing. I'm not sure what it is. I think the AI is a little bit broken. Plus, you scout around, see one City watch or thug alone. Fuck up stealthing to him, he shouts and then from out of nowhere come 5,6 or 7 thugs. I mean where did they spawn from?

Blink doesn't work as I expceted either. It is promoted as "teleporting" But it still sets off wire traps if you "blink" through them.

That said, I'm pretty early on in the game. And the environment is really really well done. So I'll reserve final judgemnt until I'm more qualified to give it.

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I'm in two minds about this, the stealth seems awful in its execution compared to Deues EX HR (which I only finished a few weeks back) and the as mentioned above guards spawn in from nowhere once the alert is raised (which happens far too eaily IMHO). In fact, its probably the worst stealth game I have played in years for actually making the stealth work. Luckily everything else about the game is amazing.

If the stealth wasnt so broken this would be a 9, but its more like a 7 or maybe an 8 so far. Its also too easy to get your powers muddled up.

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Its also too easy to get your powers muddled up.

Oh man, this. I cannot tell you how many times I have press L1 thinking I was about to use Dark Vision, and instead used blink and "blinked" myself right into the path of 2 guards, under a spot light.
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I get the feeling the game really wants everyone to do a stealthy lethal playthrough. So many of the powers and basically all of the weapons are lethal - I thought windblast would be a nice nonlethal one, but it's pretty easy to kill people with it. Whereas with stealth you're limited to knockouts and sleep arrows - and the latter you can only have 10, never upgrade capacity and they feel like they're there for plot sensitive NPCs you need to subdue more than anything. And if you get spotted you're limited to running away and waiting for the timer to run down. Swordfights, counters, drop executions, so many of the upgrades and powers you'd never touch otherwise. I'd actually recommend that as a first playthrough rather than pure nonlethal stealth.

Also I found out that you can't hold onto corpses and climb down ropes at the same time, which made my rooftop abduction of a plot critical NPC inadvertently hilarious. I guess the chain was for getting up.

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Just started playing this last night. It's no Thief but it is very impressive. In terms of moral compass; If I hear someone say nice things about the empress I'll knock them out or avoid them completely. Otherwise I stick something very sharp in their skulls and laugh menacingly while I do it.

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I'm in two minds about this, the stealth seems awful in its execution compared to Deues EX HR (which I only finished a few weeks back) and the as mentioned above guards spawn in from nowhere once the alert is raised (which happens far too eaily IMHO). In fact, its probably the worst stealth game I have played in years for actually making the stealth work. Luckily everything else about the game is amazing.

If the stealth wasnt so broken this would be a 9, but its more like a 7 or maybe an 8 so far. Its also too easy to get your powers muddled up.

The stealth really isn't broken though after finishing it on my Hard playthrough. Everytime I got caught it was my own fault and I can't really put any blame on the game, everything worked as I expected it to. It's not like say Thief were it's all about shadows, or even Deus Ex with it's blatant pathways for each type of playstyle. It's about using your various powers in different ways, it's much more of a sandbox. It's called Dishonored, it's not called Thief or Deus Ex. It does it's own thing to a very big extent. It has some things in common with those games but also does its own thing too. I'd consider stealthing in this to be just as much about quickly blinking behind or in front of a guard and then choking them/taking them out rather than just hiding behind a box.

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The stealth really isn't broken though after finishing it on my Hard playthrough. Everytime I got caught it was my own fault and I can't really put any blame on the game, everything worked as I expected it to. It's not like say Thief were it's all about shadows, or even Deus Ex with it's blatant pathways for each type of playstyle. It's about using your various powers in different ways, it's much more of a sandbox. It's called Dishonored, it's not called Thief or Deus Ex. It does it's own thing to a very big extent. It has some things in common with those games but also does its own thing too. I'd consider stealthing in this to be just as much about quickly blinking behind or in front of a guard and then choking them/taking them out rather than just hiding behind a box.

OK. But the controls are just not accurate enough to allow that sort of finesse IMHO.

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The stealth really isn't broken though after finishing it on my Hard playthrough. Everytime I got caught it was my own fault and I can't really put any blame on the game, everything worked as I expected it to. It's not like say Thief were it's all about shadows, or even Deus Ex with it's blatant pathways for each type of playstyle. It's about using your various powers in different ways, it's much more of a sandbox. It's called Dishonored, it's not called Thief or Deus Ex. It does it's own thing to a very big extent. It has some things in common with those games but also does its own thing too. I'd consider stealthing in this to be just as much about quickly blinking behind or in front of a guard and then choking them/taking them out rather than just hiding behind a box.

Deus Ex: HR was pretty sandbox as well but using powers or other routes actually gave you different advantages, thus justifying the stealth. This doesn't happen with Dishonored though, because it's really not a stealth game. You can use stealth but just because you feel like it, there's no real danger to avoid by being stealthy. I think that's the bad kind of sandbox (edit: when we're talking about stealth obviously).

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I get the feeling the game really wants everyone to do a stealthy lethal playthrough. So many of the powers and basically all of the weapons are lethal - I thought windblast would be a nice nonlethal one, but it's pretty easy to kill people with it. Whereas with stealth you're limited to knockouts and sleep arrows - and the latter you can only have 10, never upgrade capacity and they feel like they're there for plot sensitive NPCs you need to subdue more than anything. And if you get spotted you're limited to running away and waiting for the timer to run down. Swordfights, counters, drop executions, so many of the upgrades and powers you'd never touch otherwise. I'd actually recommend that as a first playthrough rather than pure nonlethal stealth.

Also I found out that you can't hold onto corpses and climb down ropes at the same, which made my rooftop abduction of a plot critical NPC inadvertently hilarious. I guess the chain was for getting up.

I was looking for a nice way into his house and found a roof entry, so I nipped in there and almost literally bumped into the bloke I was meant to be nabbing. Thanks to some funky blinking I was in the boat within about 15 seconds from there.

I also managed to get through the whorehouse without killing anyone, although I murdered most of the city population before I went in. I forgot that was part of the mission.

Corvo: Occasionally awesome, usually not quite as good as people say he is.

The stealth (and particularly killing) is definitely something you've got to decide on yourself. It's fairly easy to just wander through killing everyone if you're even vaguely clever about it.

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The only control issue I've had is that I've often blocked behind someone rather than choke them out because I'm just before the prompt, and blocking makes noise that alerts them - bit poor that.

I get what you mean though, I know every stealth game has to have the ability to play it as an action game nowadays to "widen appeal", but here that inclusion feels like it works to the detriment of the game. Your character is so powerful and combat so easy that it actually trivialises the whole reason to be stealthy in the first place - avoiding confrontations where you'd be unmatched taken them on frontally. I mean, the potential for sandbox stuff is there - you can stick a springmine to a rat, possess it and run it at a guard, but there's no real point when there's far easier and more efficient ways of killing that guy at range.

The difficulty level just seems to affect HP and damage values - I feel it'd be better if it actually vastly reduced the resources at your disposal (amping mana costs, far less ammo and stuff) because even going in full force and deliberately wastefully, I'm still passing over a shitload of ammo and stuff.

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Deus Ex: HR was pretty sandbox as well but using powers or other routes actually gave you different advantages, thus justifying the stealth. This doesn't happen with Dishonored though, because it's really not a stealth game. You can use stealth but just because you feel like it, there's no real danger to avoid by being stealthy. I think that's the bad kind of sandbox (edit: when we're talking about stealth obviously).

I guess for me, I don't need justification for using stealth. I'll do it or other styles of playing because they are fun for me and that's it. At least with Dishonored you can actually play it as a shooter/melee game if you want. It IS harder than a stealth playthrough as you can get killed a lot more easily, as I found out last night :lol: It's completely dependant on the powers that you pick. My problem with Deus Ex HR was, as an amazing game as it was, it was an illusion of choice between a shooter or stealth. Main reason being that as a shooter, it was basically shit so stealth/stealth lethal was the only way to play that game.

The only control issue I've had is that I've often blocked behind someone rather than choke them out because I'm just before the prompt, and blocking makes noise that alerts them - bit poor that.

I get what you mean though, I know every stealth game has to have the ability to play it as an action game nowadays to "widen appeal", but here that inclusion feels like it works to the detriment of the game. Your character is so powerful and combat so easy that it actually trivialises the whole reason to be stealthy in the first place - avoiding confrontations where you'd be unmatched taken them on frontally. I mean, the potential for sandbox stuff is there - you can stick a springmine to a rat, possess it and run it at a guard, but there's no real point when there's far easier and more efficient ways of killing that guy at range.

That's probably why I'll get a lot from a game like this. If you give me the tools I'll mess with them in various different ways just for fun.

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I think some of it depends on whether you play a game for efficiency or not. Combat definitely seems like the easiest way of getting through the levels, but I would never play it like that because I enjoy finding the stealthy routes and the alternative ways of dealing with the missions. Like the end of the first proper mission. I could have just killed the main target the second I saw him and it would have been easier, but I went to the trouble of avoiding that and got a much longer and narratively satisfying conclusion.

It's rather like complaining that in Hitman it's easier in some levels just to kill all the guards than to set up elaborate kills. True, but missing the point of the game.

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The levels in Batman are narrower, the solutions to problems less varied and more prescriptive. It's not a comparison that even begins to stack up.

I love the Batman games. They are muscular, confident, tight. The combat is good. But the Batman games are not in the same stratosphere as Dishonored.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a great game and great fun. I love the world design and the art design, and I think a lot of the gameplay systems are "done right". It's definately going to be "up there" under my GOTY, even if it doesn't quite reach the standards of the 90s games that it's clearly influenced by (same with Xcom).

I'm enjoying my stealthy playthrough, I was just a bit disappointed that even on a harder difficulty, even hampering my character by not buying any powers, my combat playthough was basically far easier. Yes, you can die quickly when getting into melee with half a dozen guys, but with instant-kill bullets and bolts and firebolts and sticky grenades and prox mines and ease with which enemies will shoot each other and the ability to simply warp to higher ground and come at it again, there's basically no need for you ever to be in that situation. And again, that's with me deliberately reducing the options at my disposal to get an achievement.

Gamers naturally play for efficiency, if it's a shooter then you want the most powerful gun, if it's an MMO you want the correct build, if it's an RTS you want the correct army queue. Games are systems, and system mastery is what happens over the 8-10 hours they go on for - improving the skills of the player at playing within the games systems. Noble sentiment is nice, but in reality people will play with what's most effective, even if it is less fun to do so. I've seen plenty of blogs on the topic from boardgame or CCG designers that say this is a trap that design can fall into. The best way to make people play for fun, or for creative solutions, is to make everything equally feasible, even if you wish the design to be assymetric (like it is in DE:HR).

Dishonoured being as much an action game as it was a stealth game would be fine, but that's not actually the case, the action element overshadows the stealth. The powers are mostly focused around killing, except for Blink, which is useful in traversal, stealth and combat. A few more powers like that, a blackjack for swordfights that disable, rather than kill, a knockout gas mine, etc - these would have made things a bit more balanced.

VV I felt the same way at the start with my stealthy playthrough, it's something that becomes apparent with a second, different playthrough. I didn't understand the complaints of that RPS blog mentioned until I started again. Oddly, that's a similar problem to Deus Ex 3, in that it got a bit weaker on a second playthrough because you ended up playing a largely similar character anyway and realised how limited the customisation was.

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