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9 minutes ago, b00dles said:

Strange. All of those 'got home' episodes were arguably alternate times and all that I thought, so the actual last episode is technically them still on the way. 

Then again, knowing it's goingto be seven series and also knowing what's going to happen with your actors and whatever else is another matter. 

 

I like that end game episode but I really don't think it really feels like an ending, all good things works better in that style because they don't have that goal of finally getting home. 

Interesting to hear though, cheers. 

 

Here's the interview!

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I'm taking issue with that whole article for suggesting that killing seven would have been bad because

Quote

Star Trek: Picard would have been denied one of its masterstrokes of adding Seven to its cast.

When that clearly wasn't anyone that you could recognise as being seven of nine in Picard, apart from being played by the same actress. 

 

Interesting article though, thanks and if anything it still seems like it was all over the place and pulled in many directions but strange to hear that was a totally intentional ending in a way. 

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3 hours ago, b00dles said:

Strange. All of those 'got home' episodes were arguably alternate times and all that I thought, so the actual last episode is technically them still on the way. 

Then again, knowing it's goingto be seven series and also knowing what's going to happen with your actors and whatever else is another matter. 

 

I like that end game episode but I really don't think it really feels like an ending, all good things works better in that style because they don't have that goal of finally getting home. 

Interesting to hear though, cheers. 

Should have got them home at the end of season six and had season 7 deal with the aftermath.

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After all the writer's fee nonsense around Paris and that episode of tng Robert Duncan macneil was in, I've always wondered what the deal with referencing other things is with star trek. 

 

Some stuff always gets brought back and referenced (klingons, romulans, cochrane, even Archer's dog in one of the recent movies) but so many things that you would think would be hugely monumental aren't. 

 

The return of voyager only gets a "voyager day" within a future episode of voyager itself and that captain of the Cardassian space station next to the wormhole that was crucial in the dominion war when we fought shape shifters that took over federation hq at one point who was also possibly a god,  or even the xindi (who I genuinely think were a very cool idea, got to love a race/ group(?) that includes insects and big fish creatures flying about in space aquariums) none of these things get even a nod.

 

But the captain Picard day Banner which would have burned when the enterprise crashed and exploded gets saved for a background gag.  The lore rules and usage is very strange at times. 

 

P.s. everything I've written here may well have been mentioned in series 3 of discovery somehow but get fucked if I'm watching that just to tickle some member berries.

 

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On 07/06/2021 at 08:30, Jg15 said:

Apparently the last series was made on an extreme budget with Paramount slashing the cost per episode from 1.3 Million to around 800K. Some of this was achieved by switching from film to digital cameras but I'm sure lighting etc probably took a cut as well.

 

Either way, last episode not withstanding, I thought the last season was actually pretty good and was sad to see it cancelled just as it was getting into its 'swing'.

Watched season 4 episode 2 where T’pol takes Trip back to Vulcan.  One scene she’s showing him the volcano which looked quite impressive, except theyhadn’t or couldn’t animate the smoke which just stayed where it was!

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6 hours ago, davidcotton said:

image.thumb.jpeg.f68873c299b9dd36c84f37f3ae47bd4a.jpeg
 

 

 

Anyone else seen this?!

That is actually from a flashback scene in the episode Violations, where Crusher and Picard are going to view her Husbands body in a morgue.

 

Not a particularly good episode featuring aliens that can mind probe people into reliving bad memories.

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Is there a good "essential episodes" list out there for the first couple of seasons of TNG?

 

Thinking of doing a rewatch of the show and seeing if I can get my son interested. Plan is to skip through the first couple of seasons watching only the good stuff, then do everything from S3 onwards. If I start working my way through every episode from the start then he is going to get bored before he gets to the good bits.

 

I'd like to include anything essential for later stories (like Datalore, Skin of Evil, Q Who) as well as stuff that's just plain good (Measure of a Man, obviously, but also decent but generic Trek episodes like Where No One Has Gone Before). I'd like to skip the racist ones, and the ones that are just plain shit. Not too much Wesley. For some reason I can remember most of the episodes in S1 but can't recall what half of S2 even is.

 

Can't find a list that suits my needs - anyone know of anything suitable?

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Encounter at Farpoint

Where no one has gone before

Datalore

11001001

Too short a season

When the bough breaks

Skin of evil

We’ll always have Paris
The Schizoid man

The measure of a man

The icarus factor

Q Who?
Up the long ladder

The Emissary

Peak Performance

 

 

 

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Good start! From S1 I think I'd probably add in The Neutral Zone (not a great episode, but ROMULANS) and maybe the two-part exploding head story as I remember that was quite good?

 

S2 - Elementary My Dear Data and A Matter of Honor are two I remember as being good, I might add those to the list.  I'll take your word on most of the rest of the episodes there though as I can't remember any of them apart from Measure of a Man and Q Who - for a moment I thought Up The Long Ladder was the terrible Space Irish episode but I'm hopefully wrong on that one!

 

EDIT: it IS the Space Irish episode! List invalidated.

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On 07/06/2021 at 08:59, Anne Summers said:

TNG is just so amazing though. So many great characters. And I really like how it moves with the times. With retrospect, the first couple of seasons really look like 80s shows - in many ways not really even that much of an upgrade from the original series in terms of how it's made. But then around season 3 or so it definitely becomes a 90s show, with CG and a different sense of pacing to the episodes. 

 

There's no CG space stuff in TNG at all (aside from the Crystalline Entity in Datalore) until season 4's Galaxy's Child, and that was a one-off. They persisted with model shots all the way to the end of the run.

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2 hours ago, Garwoofoo said:

Is there a good "essential episodes" list out there for the first couple of seasons of TNG?

 

Thinking of doing a rewatch of the show and seeing if I can get my son interested. Plan is to skip through the first couple of seasons watching only the good stuff, then do everything from S3 onwards. If I start working my way through every episode from the start then he is going to get bored before he gets to the good bits.

 

I'd like to include anything essential for later stories (like Datalore, Skin of Evil, Q Who) as well as stuff that's just plain good (Measure of a Man, obviously, but also decent but generic Trek episodes like Where No One Has Gone Before). I'd like to skip the racist ones, and the ones that are just plain shit. Not too much Wesley. For some reason I can remember most of the episodes in S1 but can't recall what half of S2 even is.

 

Can't find a list that suits my needs - anyone know of anything suitable?


I’m currently on a re-watch and now on S4. 
I watched all of S1, and yes so much of it’s so bad but I do have a lot of nostalgia for it. There’s only a couple of episodes worth watching but I watched it all and it was a bit of a slog. 
 

S2, I also went for a best episode list which is much like the one just posted. Half the Season I skipped and don’t regret it as when S3 kicks in, it’s about 85% greatness. There’s a couple of duffers but so many as so great. 

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2 hours ago, Garwoofoo said:

Is there a good "essential episodes" list out there for the first couple of seasons of TNG?


Thinking of doing a rewatch of the show and seeing if I can get my son interested. Plan is to skip through the first couple of seasons watching only the good stuff, then do everything from S3 onwards.

Thanks for asking that, BTW, as I was just about to ask the same. Great minds, eh?

 

(Did a selective DS9 rewatch a few years ago and it was great. Was choosy about the first season, missing a lot of it, and picked up more and more episodes from season 2 onwards. Even season 2 of DS9 picks up more in quality than is given credit for. Starting on season 3 or 4 is the wrong option for DS9 viewing!)

 

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7 hours ago, Eighthours said:

 

There's no CG space stuff in TNG at all (aside from the Crystalline Entity in Datalore) until season 4's Galaxy's Child, and that was a one-off. They persisted with model shots all the way to the end of the run.

Really? It seemed to me like CGI started to creep in around season 3 - perhaps not spaceship stuff but other spot effects, and little animations here and there. Can't remember any specific examples though. 

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On 17/06/2021 at 10:39, Garwoofoo said:

Is there a good "essential episodes" list out there for the first couple of seasons of TNG?

 

Thinking of doing a rewatch of the show and seeing if I can get my son interested.

 

So we watched Encounter at Farpoint this weekend.

 

Holy shit that has not aged well. The overly harsh TV lighting is obviously just a product of its time, and it seems churlish to criticise the characters for not being fully "themselves" given that it's the pilot episode: only Data seems to have arrived fully-formed, Picard's a right grumpy bastard in this and Riker's like an overly-enthusiastic puppy dog. But everything else is just awful. Troi's over-emoting terribly while wearing a miniskirt so short you can see what she had for lunch. Yar clearly can't act, at all: she stinks up the place every time she is on screen. Worf's head is the wrong shape. The pacing of the thing is all wrong: every scene seems to go on for about five seconds longer than it should, leaving the characters awkwardly mugging at the camera with whatever facial expression they finished with. There's an excruciating saucer separation scene that consists of the same terrified reaction shots repeated over again with VERY DRAMATIC MUSIC playing as two small model spaceships slowly move apart, it seems to go on for ten minutes. Then there's an excruciating saucer reconnection scene that... well, you get the idea. It all feels like an hour of TV squeezed into 90 minutes.

 

The boy claimed to enjoy it but mostly wanted to know whether Q would be back in every episode. A fair question given that Q was unquestionably the best thing about the whole sorry affair. 

 

To reassure myself that I wasn't going completely mad and misremembering the whole show, I stuck Darmok from S5 on later that evening after he went to bed - and it was, thankfully, brilliant. Every single scene. So it really is just a case of getting over that S1 hump. Whether or not I'll be able to hold the boy's interest, even with a heavily edited set of episodes, remains to be seen.

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2 hours ago, Garwoofoo said:

only Data seems to have arrived fully-formed

He develops more than you'd think. He's a bit more naïve and awkward at the start, and leans more into the "ah, you're doing that human thing that humans do" thing.

 

It's funny that you mention your kid enjoying it more than you though. When I started watching Star Trek I was obsessed with the technology of the show, and wanted to know everything about the ships and stuff. Stuff like a saucer separation was always an "event", a bit like those Thunderbirds episodes where Pod 4 was selected. :D I definitely didn't pick up on overacting back then either.

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I watched Insurrection the other day which I sort of enjoyed. There's far too much forced comedy though and the story is really no more cinematic than the average episode. I really don't think Frakes is a particularly good director either.

It's been so long since I watched anything from the film era of TNG that I'd completely forgotten things like the emotion chip and Geordie's new eyes. That was all a bit lame wasn't it? I wish they hadn't bothered with the TNG films in retrospect.

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23 minutes ago, Mogster said:

It's funny that you mention your kid enjoying it more than you though. When I started watching Star Trek I was obsessed with the technology of the show, and wanted to know everything about the ships and stuff. Stuff like a saucer separation was always an "event", a bit like those Thunderbirds episodes where Pod 4 was selected. :D I definitely didn't pick up on overacting back then either.

 

Yeah, it's a tough watch in some regards though for a modern 12-year-old brought up on Star Wars and Marvel. I get the impression he was being polite. I'm going to wait to see if he mentions it again, I'll be pleased if he wants to watch more but I'm not going to force it on him.

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25 minutes ago, JamesC said:

I watched Insurrection the other day which I sort of enjoyed. There's far too much forced comedy though and the story is really no more cinematic than the average episode. I really don't think Frakes is a particularly good director either.

It's been so long since I watched anything from the film era of TNG that I'd completely forgotten things like the emotion chip and Geordie's new eyes. That was all a bit lame wasn't it? I wish they hadn't bothered with the TNG films in retrospect.

Generations is the most competently shot of the TNG films, and even then it relies on having the lightning turned down the to hide the heavy reuse of TV show sets. First Contact and Insurrection look ‘television movie’ (or straight-to-video) with their harsh lighting and flat direction, and the darker visual design of the sets and costumes has aged worse than the brighter TNG style, to be honest. So very mid-late ‘90s…

 

Agree that the TNG films were a waste of time, and even doing them they shouldn’t have made the first one a sort of TOS (well, Shatner) crossover.

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The main problem with the TNG movies were that they were essentially "Data and Picard" movies, with the two main actors having a disproportionate amount of influence over the scripts and production. Then that nonsense flows through to the current day, with the plot of the Picard show being all about the relationship between the two characters, which was never a primary focus of TNG in the first place. Data cared more for his cat than he did for Picard.

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I don't think the focus on Data and Picard was the problem as such. Most TNG episodes would focus on a couple of characters, but due to the number of episodes in each season those characters obviously changed a lot. This format would have been hard to transfer to a movie series, or at least hard to sell I guess, so it probably made sense to centre plots around Picard as the captain, and Data as one of the more interesting characters. TOS never had this problem, as the show was always focussed on Kirk, Spock and McCoy, so I guess the problem here was more that TNG was far less suited to the transition to movies.

 

I wouldn't call that the main problem though. The problem was that they were trying to force TNG into a series of blockbuster movies, and didn't have a good idea about how to do it. First Contact had its problems, but I think it was by far the best attempt. Generations and Insurrection felt like stretched out episodes, and had their own problems on top, while Nemesis was just awful.

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Part of the problem for me was that they seemed to want these big action sequences which just didn't suit TNG. Even in Insurrection you've got the shuttle chase at the beginning and then later on Riker starts flying the Enterprise by stick(a pet hate of mine is when Star Trek switches to aircraft style combat instead of naval style combat)! They'd have been far better off going for a big sci-fi mystery thriller type story rather that an action blockbuster thing.

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2 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

First Contact is a great movie!

The Borg queen concept totally ruins the film for me - and it ruined The Borg for good. There are some nice sequences in the film and I agree it's the most successful of the TNG films but it pales against the quality of the TV show and even against most of the original crew films.

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