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The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads


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Good call on Lower Decks. :D

 

TNG season 7 has a fair bit of meh to get through, but it still has some very good episodes mixed in. Looking at the list, there's Paralells, The Pegasus, Lower Decks, Pre-emptive Strike and of course the amazing All Good things. The story of the week format was the same as it had always been, with the show being made with serialisation in mind from the start. The fact that you could watch most episodes in any order was entirely by design, although there was obviously still some character development threaded into the mix. 

 

Also while it may not have had the build up of Deep Space Nine, I think All Good Things is probably the best finalé of all the Star Trek shows. It's absolutely the big send off you're hoping for.

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On 27/11/2021 at 22:26, Mogster said:

 

 

Also while it may not have had the build up of Deep Space Nine, I think All Good Things is probably the best finalé of all the Star Trek shows. It's absolutely the big send off you're hoping for.


Okay, just finished TNG. Overall, loved it. Some ups, some downs but on the whole really positive. However, I disagree with your point here. All Good Things didn’t feel like a big finale, it didn’t even feel like a finale at all. It felt like it could have easily slotted into any point in any series and worked. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s very similar to a number of other episodes, even. 
 

s7 really felt like they were scraping the barrel for some stories, though. Breaking out loads of random family members we’d never seen or heard of. Geordie’s mom! Troi’s sister! Riker’s double! Crusher’s nan! Data’s mom! Worf’s son from the future! Picard’s (fake) son!

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5 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

However, I disagree with your point here. All Good Things didn’t feel like a big finale, it didn’t even feel like a finale at all. It felt like it could have easily slotted into any point in any series and worked. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s very similar to a number of other episodes, even. 

Fair enough, but I'm surprised. I think it's an incredible finalé, rounding off the Q arc that started it all, bringing back old characters and showing a possible future. Plus there's the whole Enterprise D Refit being awesome thing. 

 

The end, with Picard finally joining in the poker game just felt like the perfect place to end things, to the point where I think it was almost a bad thing that we ended up with four movies and (shudder) Picard.:ph34r:

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Anyway, time to start deep space 9. According to Netflix I’ve already watched nine episodes but I don’t remember doing so or anything about them, so just starting again. 
 

Immediately the gulf in picture quality between lovingly remastered Next Gen and 90s smear o vision DS9 is off putting! 

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2 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

Anyway, time to start deep space 9. According to Netflix I’ve already watched nine episodes but I don’t remember doing so or anything about them, so just starting again. 
 

Immediately the gulf in picture quality between lovingly remastered Next Gen and 90s smear o vision DS9 is off putting! 

First time (not counting those 9) or a rewatch?

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3 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

First time! 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

 

And you bothered to watch any of discovery?

 

Wow you're in for a treat and if your opinion on average Brooks doesn't change, I'll be amazed. 

He's right up there for me, I genuinely wonder if I prefer sisko as a character to Picard given the stuff with Jake and his relationships that are way more interesting than almost anything Picard got to deal with. 

I obviously realise that a lot of that is to do with the serialised TV of TNG against the new world order of having on-going storylines.

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I watched one or two episodes of Discovery, not much more.

 

I guess it's like any time you switch series set in the same universe and all the characters you know and love are no longer in it - TNG is special to me because I used to watch it after school with my mom in the 90s so it has a sentimental value which I don't have for any other Trek series.

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14 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

I watched one or two episodes of Discovery, not much more.

 

I guess it's like any time you switch series set in the same universe and all the characters you know and love are no longer in it - TNG is special to me because I used to watch it after school with my mom in the 90s so it has a sentimental value which I don't have for any other Trek series.

Oh yeah I'm very similar with TNG, that post neighbours spot on a Tuesday at 6 got me right into it and subsequently rented vhs from the library (the very concept!) for ds9 and voyager because the scheduling on UK terrestrial was all over the place. 

 

But genuinely, after re-watching everything (apart from TOS, never really got on with that as a series) I think ds9 is the best one of the lot. Although it's also only the best if you've already seen tng in a strange way, the things they do really only "work" if you're familiar with the universe and setting.

 

As a novel little aside though, keep in mind just HOW MANY O'brien episodes there are in the early seasons, which I can only assume is done as a "you know him from tng, right?".

 

Colm is great of course but it's amazing some of the shit he goes through in comparison to the rest of the cast.

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The first season of DS9 is a bit of a slog, it feels like they genuinely have no idea what to do with the concept and pretty much every episode is "something has come through the wormhole and now everyone is acting strange". Then it casually throws in an all-time classic Star Trek episode right near the end like it's no big deal and you can almost hear the sound of the writers' brains clicking into gear.

 

Season 2 and 3 are better and then from season 4 onwards it's just about the best thing ever.

 

FWIW as well I found the picture quality improves a bit as you go on (assuming you're watching it on Netflix). And you'll adjust to it of course (when was the last time you watched anything in SD?) The first episode is really jarring though, it's like they uploaded a third-generation VHS copy or something.

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14 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

All Good Things didn’t feel like a big finale, it didn’t even feel like a finale at all.

 

Massively hard disagree. Not only is it an epic story, but it bookends the series in terms of plot with Q and the trial, and also seeing the crew in their Farpoint selves and old uniforms. It's the very definition of a series finale.

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Nope. That episode, everything about it, could easily have fit in comfortably half way through the series and no one would have batted an eye lid. Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed the episode, but it wasn't a big, grand, show ending finale whatsoever.

 

Think about it: we'd had loads of Q, we'd had relationship building between the Captain and the crew and between the crew, we'd had time travel, we'd had two-parters, we'd had epic storylines, we'd had past/present/future colliding...we'd had literally all of it before at some point or another - multiple times, in some instances. As a big send off for the show, as a fond farewell, it didn't go anywhere. It didn't lead to anything. There was no epic conclusion, just a feeling that tomorrow things will carry on just as before. It wasn't much of a send off for these characters you'd come to know and love over the past seven seasons. I guess the 'real' finales are the movies.

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2 hours ago, Garwoofoo said:

FWIW as well I found the picture quality improves a bit as you go on (assuming you're watching it on Netflix). And you'll adjust to it of course (when was the last time you watched anything in SD?) The first episode is really jarring though, it's like they uploaded a third-generation VHS copy or something.

 

Good to know. The first episode, at the start where the ship is being destroyed, the combination of shaky cam and blurry vision made me get a right headache.

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We're not going to agree on how good AGT works as a finalé, which again is fine, but it's worth bearing in mind again that every episode of TNG, including AGT, was designed to stand alone and potentially be watched out of order. So yes, it could technically have slotted in everywhere and was never going to end with the ship being destroyed or something as final as that. However, within those restrictions I think it works tremendously.

 

That may sound like I'm damning with faint praise, but I really do think it's an incredible episode and a perfect end to the show, for all the reasons I gave before.

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1 hour ago, Doctor Shark said:

Nope. That episode, everything about it, could easily have fit in comfortably half way through the series and no one would have batted an eye lid. Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed the episode, but it wasn't a big, grand, show ending finale whatsoever.

 

Think about it: we'd had loads of Q, we'd had relationship building between the Captain and the crew and between the crew, we'd had time travel, we'd had two-parters, we'd had epic storylines, we'd had past/present/future colliding...we'd had literally all of it before at some point or another - multiple times, in some instances. As a big send off for the show, as a fond farewell, it didn't go anywhere. It didn't lead to anything. There was no epic conclusion, just a feeling that tomorrow things will carry on just as before. It wasn't much of a send off for these characters you'd come to know and love over the past seven seasons. I guess the 'real' finales are the movies.

 

I've thought about it and you're wrong. 😅 It's generally regarded as one of the great TV finales, and it bookends the series perfecly. But each to their own.

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Deep Space 9. On episode three, so early days. So far I don’t like any of the characters much except for Odo and the Cardassian tailor/spy. 
 

Dr Bashir is a fucking moron. The tailor tells him to come to his shop at a specific time to “buy a suit”. Dr Bashir doesn’t understand any of the context or subplot. Idiot. :lol:

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28 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

Deep Space 9. On episode three, so early days. So far I don’t like any of the characters much except for Odo and the Cardassian tailor/spy. 
 

Dr Bashir is a fucking moron. The tailor tells him to come to his shop at a specific time to “buy a suit”. Dr Bashir doesn’t understand any of the context or subplot. Idiot. :lol:

 

They go back to the drawing board with Bashir for season 2 onwards. Even before the internet they knew he did not go down well with fans.

 

He's a much better character from season 2 onwards.

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54 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:

Deep Space 9. On episode three, so early days. So far I don’t like any of the characters much except for Odo and the Cardassian tailor/spy. 
 

Dr Bashir is a fucking moron. The tailor tells him to come to his shop at a specific time to “buy a suit”. Dr Bashir doesn’t understand any of the context or subplot. Idiot. :lol:

Garak only gets better too.

 

Have you clocked that he's the bad guy from dirty Harry? It's those eyes...

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On 30/11/2021 at 20:52, Doctor Shark said:

Oh man, that’s some overacting from Avery Brooks. 

Only just seen this. Yep, Avery Brooks is very hammy in the first season or two, but he (along with his beard) grows into the role. By the end, he's up there with Picard.

 

As for Discovery. Just forget it exists. 

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2 hours ago, b00dles said:

Garak only gets better too.

 

Have you clocked that he's the bad guy from dirty Harry? It's those eyes...

Last year I watched Dirty Harry and Cobra for the first time because he’s in both films. Not long into Cobra I realised it was an ‘80s cocaine psychosis remake of Dirty Harry…

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