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The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads


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33 minutes ago, Benny said:

On the scale of emotional wallpaper to whatever it is we get rammed into our ears by Discovery I'm okay with the beige colour swatch trappings of 90s Trek now.

 

Oh likewise. I think it was amazing texture. It was a Berman thing. He's a weird bloke.

 

Apparently some of the best earliest music came from a guy called Ron Jones who didn't give a shit about the Berman rules and didn't get hired after Season 3.

 

Now it's just lame 'action' tracks that sound like they came from a stock library. Anonmyous and awful.

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13 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Full 50 piece orchestra for each ep, my man. Cut down to about 35 from season 4 on.

 

Although TNG is the origin of the 'no thematic material or memorable tunes' style that has been popular for years as music is just for emotional wallpaper in the series.

 

Berman famously hated music, which is why the bizarre wallpaper thing of what I would describe as 'nothing music' came in. It's so annoying, as the music in the early seasons of TNG could be pretty exciting. Then it all gets so beige. The difference is so noticeable when you start looking for it, and it persisted pretty much all the way through the Berman era with rare exceptions. Jesus, that one long held note to opening titles... every bloody time. Should have bloody remastered the music when doing the Blu-Rays! Imagine S4-S7 all recomposed! The episodes would have been so much better (and I'm talking about maybe my all-time favourite show here) - music can push a show over the top, give it that final 10%.

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DS9 S3E1 "The Search: Part 1"

 

Sisko doesn't have his beard yet but season 3 starts pretty well with the introduction of the Defiant. I especially like how they find a way to get Quark on the ship with Sisko's scam. Odo's proper grouchy as well. Edington turns up and already looks suspicious, and Dax has BIG hair.

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It's quite odd Sisko going on about Starfleet not liking Odo because he thumbs his nose at authority and doesn't respect the chain of command. I usually think of him later as being lawful and by the book to an absolute fault.

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It's pretty lame that at the start of the second part everything just abruptly resets for the other major characters though. After the big fight and cliffhanger, it's just like oh! They make it back to DS9*. The first part is mostly just to get Odo to the Founders.

 

*

Spoiler

Of course, that's really a trick though, given they are actually in a simulation. It's just a bit abruptly clunky.

 

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Poor keiko. Rosalind Chao had such a weird role and she was good whenever she actually had anything to do. Her pah wraith possession episode was a cracker in regards to showing off her acting chops.

 

I always wonder if it was just more of the nonsense around Rick berman and him being a perv or if she was doing other stuff. 

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12 minutes ago, b00dles said:

Poor keiko. Rosalind Chao had such a weird role and she was good whenever she actually had anything to do. Her pah wraith possession episode was a cracker in regards to showing off her acting chops.

 

I always wonder if it was just more of the nonsense around Rick berman and him being a perv or if she was doing other stuff. 

 

Pretty good interview with her here about the show.

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6 minutes ago, Lorfarius said:

 

Pretty good interview with her here about the show.

Cheers, bit of one of those odd 'summary of other interviews' pieces you get but I might see if I can find that podcast mentioned. 

 

Fair enough it was her that wasn't that fussed though, makes it less weird than a lot of the other women's stories you've heard about in 90s trek at least. 

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TNG S3E6 "Booby Trap"

 

in which Geordi gets his creep on. Riker says something is impossible, but Picard says actually, it's improbable, in a fun little exchange, and Picard and Worf are both really excited at finding an ancient battlecruiser for entirely different reasons.

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Also a genuinely great example of actually showing an aspect of Picard's character. Going down to the ship talking about ships in bottles "did none of you ever build model ships as boys?", calling the experience "genuinely thrilling" etc. Also love O'Brien saying "I did sir!", and Riker giving him a look that says "you total suck up".

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Also now that it's been mentioned, I'm really noticing the soundtrack compared to later seasons. In that it actually has one and is very effective at heightening the drama. This one has a cool little synth number early on for example.

 

Fucking Berman.

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This is classic TNG really: the ship trapped, characters all doing their jobs, and to get them out Geordi has to build a prototype engine that isn't ready yet, from Starfleet records, while in the field. With his imaginary girlfriend.

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I love that the moral of the story for Geordi not being able to connect with women is actually NOT to follow Guinan's advice and be normal, but to retreat into the Holodeck and make his own manic pixie dream engineer to give him back rubs instead :lol:

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59 minutes ago, Benny said:

Also a genuinely great example of actually showing an aspect of Picard's character. Going down to the ship talking about ships in bottles "did none of you ever build model ships as boys?", calling the experience "genuinely thrilling" etc. Also love O'Brien saying "I did sir!", and Riker giving him a look that says "you total suck up".

 

Now THAT's Picard. A supremely capable man whose main weakness is his charisma has allowed him to overwhelm people all his life, so he never quite learned that others don't quite enjoy his passions as much as he does, and struggles when he has to relate to others or is in a position of weakness.

 

God I wish the writers or Stewart had the wit to understand this stuff.

 

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1 hour ago, Benny said:

Also now that it's been mentioned, I'm really noticing the soundtrack compared to later seasons. In that it actually has one and is very effective at heightening the drama. This one has a cool little synth number early on for example.

 

Fucking Berman.

 

This'll cure what ails ya.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Benny said:

I love that the moral of the story for Geordi not being able to connect with women is actually NOT to follow Guinan's advice and be normal, but to retreat into the Holodeck and make his own manic pixie dream engineer to give him back rubs instead :lol:

 

He's a complete sex pest in this one, it's quite unsavoury. Though I do love the bit where Picard walks into the holodeck and you get that glorious moment where it's clear he knows exactly what Geordi is up to and Geordi knows he knows :lol:

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Isn't it telling though, how even unassuming episodes like this have enough packed in them to contribute to an entire mythology around the characters of TNG and Star Trek in general?

 

When you look at the attempts at whatever the excuse for writing is in Nu Trek it's just completely bereft of anything resembling a core, structure, or literally anything that even starts to resemble something that could infect the popular consciousness.

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5 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Now THAT's Picard. A supremely capable man whose main weakness is his charisma has allowed him to overwhelm people all his life, so he never quite learned that others don't quite enjoy his passions as much as he does, and struggles when he has to relate to others or is in a position of weakness.

 

God I wish the writers or Stewart had the wit to understand this stuff.

 

 

This is even underlined in the famous closing moments of All Good Things, when he sits at the card table and immediately changes the poker game rules fron what they'd set them at, allowing Riker to cast an amused glance at Troi.

 

He says what he says and means it, but he's still himself. The character of the man doesn't change because of a speech.

 

Perfect.

 

Unlike in the woeful Discovery or Picard where characters are constantly swayed to emotion by a few sentences. Rubbish. Like it's written by Homer Simpson.

 

"Why did he stab the President with the American flag?"

"Tch. He did it because he was angry!"

 

That's Discovery and Picard right there.

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TNG S1E25 "Conspiracy"

 

In which Worf says he hates swimming because it's like bathing, because presumably he's a disgusting Klingon. And Data is attempting to decipher one of Geordi's dirty jokes.

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Holy shit, Doctor Crusher is a badass. The possessed admiral takes apart Riker, flicks away Geordi, and chucks Worf over a table, and Beverly is just like, surprise motherfucker! I remembered we have Phasers unlike these chumps.

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