Netflix

[Mogster]

9 minutes ago, therearerules said:

Given the reception Dark got that thread at best is damning with faint praise, and that's ignoring the literal damning. TV shows get cancelled all the time when nobody watches them, it's not some horrendous Netflix thing.

Netflix cancel a lot of shows before giving them a chance, even when they seem to be doing fairly well and seem to have a bit of buzz around them.

 

It's probably partly down to just how many shows Netflix seem to commission, but that doesn't change the fact that starting anything new has become much more likely to be a waste of time.

 

As we talked about earlier, the only metric they seem to care about is whether a show is actively bringing in new subscribers, not whether it's popular with existing subs and certainly not whether it's actually any good or not.

 

 

[Popo]

7 hours ago, Mogster said:

No? I haven't watched it myself, but the thread seemed pretty positive on the whole.

 

 

The point is more that this sort of thing is common practice for Netflix. Archive 81 is another show that springs to mind that got one season to set things up before being quickly cancelled.

 

Oof, I didn’t know about Archive 81! 

 

A double-whammy of disappointment. 

[dreamylittledream]

On 02/01/2023 at 23:36, Gigawatt said:

Does 1899 work as a single-series or does it end on a cliff-hanger? If it’s the latter I won’t bother watching it, which is a shame as it sounds interesting. 

Sort of.

 

The season end wraps up the central mystery box it set up but then dangles a brand new one on front of you in the closing moments which is extremely frustrating if like me you started watching it just before cancellation but knew there was no more to come by the time you reached the finale.

 

 

[Steve McQueef]

On 02/01/2023 at 12:33, Gotters said:

Started that Kaleidoscope last night, very enjoyable.

 

Typical stylish heist setup fare but the eps will play in a random order leading to a finale

 

Not quite sure the point of that in terms of what it adds to the mix other than a gimmick, but enjoyed the first we watched and it mad sense so far despite our first ep not being the first chronologically.

 

 

A gimmick means fuck all when you're story is largely bollocks, which this was.

 

Also, how the fuck does Jai Courtney keep getting work?

[LaveDisco]

On 03/01/2023 at 13:38, Ste Pickford said:

I think 1899 was very definitely set up to possibly have a second series, or possibly just end, depending on whether they got the thumbs up or not.  The creators almost certainly had ideas about where to take it next, but It totally works as a stand-alone story.

 

 

In the making of, they were talking at length about how, just like Dark, they have a three season, beginning, middle and end, planned out. 

 

I really enjoyed 1899, gutted it's ending. Netflix might be focusing on new viewers to grow, but it's making Netflix slip further and further down the pecking order as a prestige service.  At the very least, when budgeting a show, they should keep aside enough money for a 'special finale episode' to end the season, if cancelled (contracts etc, be damned).

[CarloOos]

I’m still annoyed they’ve not gone back to finish off Glow. The last season of that was written and about to start filming when it got cancelled.

[therearerules]

2 hours ago, LaveDisco said:

 

 

In the making of, they were talking at length about how, just like Dark, they have a three season, beginning, middle and end, planned out. 

 

I really enjoyed 1899, gutted it's ending. Netflix might be focusing on new viewers to grow, but it's making Netflix slip further and further down the pecking order as a prestige service.  At the very least, when budgeting a show, they should keep aside enough money for a 'special finale episode' to end the season, if cancelled (contracts etc, be damned).

I struggle to believe Dark was planned out, given the unsatisfactory conclusion to the mysteries of the very first episode.

[Tony]

22 hours ago, Mogster said:

Netflix cancel a lot of shows before giving them a chance, even when they seem to be doing fairly well and seem to have a bit of buzz around them.

 

It's probably partly down to just how many shows Netflix seem to commission, but that doesn't change the fact that starting anything new has become much more likely to be a waste of time.

 

As we talked about earlier, the only metric they seem to care about is whether a show is actively bringing in new subscribers, not whether it's popular with existing subs and certainly not whether it's actually any good or not.

 

 

 

They used to say that Netflix produced shows were contracted with low costs at the start with a huge jump in pay as seasons progressed. I don't know if that still is the case but would make sense as to why they kill shows quickly. A show would need a huge following to last beyond a couple of seasons as it soon gets too expensive to produce. They'd rather cancel a show and greenlit a replacement to fill content for a lot less money.

[Benny]

The worst Netflix cancellation was of that Dark Crystal series. So much love and craft poured into it, only to burn white hot and get snuffed out too quick.

[pledge]

Are there any stats that show Netflix cancels more shows than established networks like NBC, Fox, WB etc?

[pledge]

"Netflix does drop more shows than other studios. It cancelled 11 per cent of its US television series last year, while Disney and WarnerMedia dropped 9 per cent, NBCUniversal 8 per cent and ViacomCBS only 4 per cent, according to Ampere." 

 

From a FT article last march. More but not huge difference to some.

[Alex W.]

I’d be curious about what shows they were launching and cancelling, though. US networks seem to crank out an annual lump of cheap sitcoms on the assumption a good number will fail and get the chop after half a season. Netflix always seemed more discriminating in its launches by contrast. No idea how accurate that is though, and might be tricky to get comparable data.

[Wizcat]

Netflix arguably has more access to instant analytics than most traditional networks though. I would expect that drives a lot of their decisions

 

If they see X% of viewers only watch the first episode, or Y% don't even finish that before moving on to watch something else, then that's part of their decision. On the other hand if Z% watch the entire thing in less than three days, that's something else.

 

I expect they think it's better to plough money into something new rather than keep hoping a failing show will improve.

 

1899 I don't think I even finished the first episode for example, so sorry guys, that one is probably on me.

[thesnwmn]

34 minutes ago, Wizcat said:

Netflix arguably has more access to instant analytics than most traditional networks though. I would expect that drives a lot of their decisions

 

If they see X% of viewers only watch the first episode, or Y% don't even finish that before moving on to watch something else, then that's part of their decision. On the other hand if Z% watch the entire thing in less than three days, that's something else.

 

I expect they think it's better to plough money into something new rather than keep hoping a failing show will improve.

 

1899 I don't think I even finished the first episode for example, so sorry guys, that one is probably on me.

 

As someone said above I think it's probably more about what the impact of these statistics is.

 

They have two things they need:

1. Recruit new subscribers

2. Keep existing subscribers

 

Yes they have a lot of data but how many people watch might now actually matter all that much. Obviously it does because it drives the above two things. But so far, cancelling things before finishing them doesn't seem to have dented their subs numbers massively. Although whether it's actually recruiting new ones is obviously debatable too.

 

It strikes me that a new thing is likely to be better at getting new people than a second series of something that didn't get them to sign up for the first one.

[Garwoofoo]

There seems to be an assumption that everyone jumps on everything the second it's released, as well. 1899 was definitely on my list to watch but I've got other things (some of them on Netflix!) vying for my attention too. And sometimes a well-received second/third/fourth season can encourage you to go back and watch stuff you'd previously missed, for instance I've not seen Alice in Borderland yet but the buzz around the new season has been pretty good so that's been bumped up the list.

 

I dunno, I guess I'm part of the problem because I'm not planning to ditch Netflix any time soon but they are aggravating. I spend more time on Disney+ these days, a much lower turnover of content there but more stuff I actually want to watch and an increasingly decent back catalogue. I've just started watching 24 on there so that's going to keep me busy for a while!

[Ste Pickford]

I'm not sure where the data came from (there wasn't a link), but someone on a different forum I'm on said they'd read that Netflix said a only a fairly low % of viewers who started 1899 made it through to the end of the series, and that's a key statistic that they use to decide whether or not to continue funding a show.

[thesnwmn]

1 hour ago, Ste Pickford said:

I'm not sure where the data came from (there wasn't a link), but someone on a different forum I'm on said they'd read that Netflix said a only a fairly low % of viewers who started 1899 made it through to the end of the series, and that's a key statistic that they use to decide whether or not to continue funding a show.

 

Maybe there's newer data but Wikipedia says...

 

Quote

During its debut week, 1899 ranked at number two on Netflix's Top 10 TV English titles just three days after its release with 79.27 million hours viewed.[24][25] The following week, the series remained at the same position and garnered 87.89 million viewing hours.[26][27] In its third week, the series generated 44.62 million viewing hours, while also holding its position at number two.[28][29]

 

So its audience halved from week 2 to week 3. But it didn't get worse compared to other things there.

[Exidor]

Those numbers don't say whether it's 10 million users watching the whole series in week 1 or 80 million users watching the first episode before sacking it off. Big difference in terms of paying for a second season.

[thesnwmn]

1 hour ago, Exidor said:

Those numbers don't say whether it's 10 million users watching the whole series in week 1 or 80 million users watching the first episode before sacking it off. Big difference in terms of paying for a second season.

 

You are of course right. I somehow completely forgot that Netflix doesn't release episodes weekly 🤦‍♂️

 

Mostly because I've just stopped following anything they release as it appears. Too much of it and not enough of it is good enough or not going to be cancelled.

[Festoon]

 

Only in their top 10 for 5 weeks. That's pretty low. For comparison Wednesday week 6

 

[JohnC]

And Wednesday has just been renewed.

[Bucky]

I'm really looking forward to The Pale Blue Eye this weekend.  It's nice when stuff like this pops up.

[Minion]

On 03/01/2023 at 13:02, Capwn said:

the weaker ... Wes Anderson movies that I struggle with like ...The Royal Tenenbaums

 

 

🤯

[Popo]

 

[christaylor]

Watched the first ep of the latest Last Chance U yesterday. Definitely getting diminishing returns now, didn't feel like there was a single likeable character among them, not sure I'll take it any further. 

[Stopharage]

36 minutes ago, christaylor said:

Watched the first ep of the latest Last Chance U yesterday. Definitely getting diminishing returns now, didn't feel like there was a single likeable character among them, not sure I'll take it any further. 

I watched the whole thing as it's ideal fodder for when I'm on the treadmill. Coach Rob is great and I think you'll rethink him by the end. The playing staff definitely aren't as memorable or easy to warm to this time around. I'd agree it's not as compelling as the first series though. 

[womblingfree]

Completely flummoxed by the massive success of Wednesday. I mean, it’s fine, but just another lightweight teeny gothy show like dozens of others.

[Stig]

3 hours ago, womblingfree said:

Completely flummoxed by the massive success of Wednesday. I mean, it’s fine, but just another lightweight teeny gothy show like dozens of others.

 

Because it appeals across a range of kids, teens and millennial goths. 

[squirtle]

Anyone watching The Glory? On episode 3 and it's a fucking brutal Korean revenge story.

[Silent Runner]

22 hours ago, womblingfree said:

Completely flummoxed by the massive success of Wednesday. I mean, it’s fine, but just another lightweight teeny gothy show like dozens of others.

 

I think the Addams Family brand and is still pretty strong and Jenna Ortega elevates it above the usual YA stuff.