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The Spoiler-Filled Game of Thrones Book Readers Thread (Seriously Spoilers)


Lorfarius
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The show can be a bit shit about keeping past plot threads ongoing, preferring to shoehorn them in when they become relevant again. There have been no Freys since the end of season 3 as far as I remember, and the Brotherhood apparently serve no purpose in the plot any more.

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I can understand why people are annoyed at the Sansa plot change, and I think it could and should have been done without the rape, but there is a real white-washing of the books going on. The Jayne Poole stuff in the book is 10x more graphic and 10x more fucked up, along with a lot of stuff in the book that is genuinly horrific that was skipped over in the series (the mountain and his men and the innkeepers daughter, Lollys and the mob, etc etc).

It also only exists to give Theon motivation - Jayne's character didn't appear much before and you can be sure she won't appear later.

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....but there is a real white-washing of the books going on. The Jayne Poole stuff in the book is 10x more graphic and 10x more fucked up, along with a lot of stuff in the book that is genuinly horrific that was skipped over in the series (the mountain and his men and the innkeepers daughter, Lollys and the mob, etc etc).

Can you spoil that for me?

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I reckon we will at least see Dennis Pennis again out of the Brotherhood. Got a feeling that at least one character will be zombie by his hands at some point. My money's on Brienne after a heroic death at the battle of Winterfell. But I'd love to see Stannis resurected this way, being some kind of unstopable killing ruler who keeps being brought back from the dead every battle.

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Can you spoil that for me?

Eh? Do you mean you haven't read the book but want to know what he means? If so:

Sansa is not at Winterfell in the book; Ramsay is marrying her best friend Jeyne Poole instead, who they are masquerading as Arya Stark. Ramsay makes Theon eat her out during the bedding process, if I recall correctly, and regularly beats/abuses her. Oh and I think it was hinted that he makes her fuck a dog too (?).

Lollys gets gang raped countless times by a mob in King's Landing and gets pregnant. This is before she marries Bronn.

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Eh? Do you mean you haven't read the book but want to know what he means? If so:

Sansa is not at Winterfell in the book; Ramsay is marrying her best friend Jeyne Poole instead, who they are masquerading as Arya Stark. Ramsay makes Theon eat her out during the bedding process, if I recall correctly, and regularly beats/abuses her. Oh and I think it was hinted that he makes her fuck a dog too (?).

Lollys gets gang raped countless times by a mob in King's Landing and gets pregnant. This is before she marries Bronn.

Thanks, but I'm going through the audiobooks at the moment after catching up with the TV series. Not terribly bothered as I doubt I listen to the rest due to time constraints.

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People weren't invested in Danerys over five years.

People didn't know drogo from anyone else.

There wasn't an audience surrogate.

There's precisely no chance that Sansa is going to become ramsey's moon and stars.

It's all downhill from here.

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Hmm. Maybe:

- Outraged viewers weren't as / couldn't have been as attached to Dany in episode 1 of season 1 as they were to Sansa come halfway through season 5.

- It's easier to shrug off other acts of extreme cruelty in the show because - relatively speaking - they make some kind of sense. For example, I'd be surprised if there was an outcry about babies having their throats slit because there was a cold logic in Joffrey eliminating potential future claims to his throne.

- It's politically correct to denounce the decision for Sansa to have this happen to her, otherwise, you know, you're a little on the pro-rape side of things.

Ramsey hunted former lovers down for sport. He killed several of his own men as part of his plan to get Theon to trust and find comfort in him prior to the mutilation and mental torture he'd soon be administrating.

Maybe these viewers haven't been paying enough attention to the Boltons to be able to accept that that's kind of just how they roll.

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Whilst a rape scene is never enjoyable, it was easily justified by the plot. Ramsay is a dick; we do not need to be shown this. However, we do need to see how little he cares about his wife, to reinforce how the marriage is one of politics to get a better grip on the North, and that Sansa has only ever been a pawn in this game. Without Ramsay's cruelty towards Sansa shown on screen one might assume that his abuse towards her was more passive; this makes it clear that Sansa is married to somebody who revels in suffering to an extent which would have made Joffrey blush.

And of course we need to give Theon the motivation to turn against the Boltons. He clearly harbours shame for turning his back on the Starks. But he is a completely broken man. It would be hard for him to realistically turn against his abuser if he had not witnessed something like his best friend's sister being raped by his mortal enemy.

I'm more disappointed in Arya's job at Dignitas; can she please get to being a hitman soon to add some excitement to her story? Or can we watch her washing hair and sweeping for another half dozen episodes?

And Dorne; deary me. If you are not going to do it properly then just leave it out of the show with the Ironborn.

That said, I would not mind a bit of Viking pirate action. Now those scenes would get the easily offended reaching for their keyboards in protest.

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Completely different motivation for the characters too I suppose; Drogo wasn't doing it with any ill intention, just doing things as they are done (that's his people's way, sort of thing) but Ramsey was just quite deliberately being as evil as possible for the maximum humiliation of everyone in the room.

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Also, blogs are getting more traffic in 2015 than they were in 2010. People simply have to have an opinion now. In an odd way it almost reminds me of the fallout from "No Russian" in MW2.

Exactly this. We seem to live an an age where bloggers and Twitter and constantly finding new rules that apparently we now have to live by. Sad fucking times.

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Twitter's AngryGoTfan and World of Ice and Fire co-authors Elio and Linda both did videos detailing their opposing views on the Sansa scene:

http://angrygotfan.com/2015/05/20/elio-and-linda-vs-angrygotfan-the-great-sansa-debate/

I'm basically with Elio and Linda on this one, but there's one point on which I find myself sympathising with AngryGoTfan's point of view. He proposes an alternative to the finished scene where Sansa faces Ramsay and has sex with him willingly, having accepted this to be part of what she was signing up for when she agreed to Littlefinger's plan. This would allow her to hold onto her agency, even if she didn't enjoy the experience.

The counter-argument to this is, I suppose that 1. Ramsay immediately threw her off her guard by being a dick and demanding she strip, and making Theon stay to watch and 2. If she had gone along with it more willingly, it would not be outside of Ramsay's character to escalate things just to distress her.

I'm glad that a fair few female bloggers and journalists have spoken out against those raising a fuss about the scene, since it was starting to seem like if you didn't have a problem with it, then you condone rape and are probably a potential rapist yourself.

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She doesn't really want it to happen but she knows what part she has to play in order to reclaim the North. It would have been rape no matter what because Sansa doesn't really want to have sex with him. Plus if she'd have refused it would have been 1000x worse for her.

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Do we even need this tread anymore with the amount they've changed. Crazy how far off piste this series has gone.

I'm guessing Sam isn't going off to become a Maester anymore, which is a shame because that seemed like it was leading somewhere. Also "oh, oh my" :lol: bless him.

Its also a shame how much good stuff they seem to be cutting out/changing. I know the last 2 books had a lot of boring crap in them but some stuff was good. Jamies quest to Riverrun, and his refusal to go back and help Cersai were huge in his development. Plus it had more Blackfish and that's not a bad thing. Now he's still pussy whipped, doing whatever she says and headed off to Dorne.

Maybe theyre adding all this extra stuff in so they can go back to it later in order to flesh out next season. So maybe we could still end up with Young Griff, the Brotherhood Without Banners & Lady Stoneheart, Riverrun, Sams quest to the Citadel and the Ironborn (although there's a lot of crap they can cut from them). They've left so many threads open its really annoying. They even make mention of the Kings book in this episode but she only mentions Robs and Joffery, no mention of Balon at all.

One good change though, more Queen of Thorns is always a good thing.

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I can see the potential of using the Riverrun storyline next season, then having Jaime become more distant to Cersei. I'm still not sure Young Griff and Lady Stoneheart appearing. Maybe there is a slight chance of Lady Stoneheart being revealed at the end of this season for a Riverrun plot next season but I still think they missed the chance of dropping this bombshell.

I think they may do Sam's journey to Oldtown next season.

Also I'm assuming Robert Strong will walk into the Kingsguard instead of Arys Oakheart being killed off as I'm not really sure what the Kingsguard situation is like in the show. Either that or maybe the Kingsguard that went with Mace Tyrell to Braavos gets killed. I can't remember who it was but if it was Meryn Trant then it's a possibility that Arya may kill him in a similar fashion to Dareon.

I thought Jorah and Tyrion would meet Daenerys this season but I expected that to be episode 9 or 10 but given that Barristan is now dead someone needs to fill his role.

EDIT: And the mention of King's blood again. When is Stannis gonna be like "hangabout, darling. Balon ain't dead yet!"

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I can see Sam going to Oldtown now. As much as a dick Thorne is he probably doesn't want Gilly getting raped, plus it removes one of Jon Snows allies. Was shocked but very happy by Tyrion finally meeting Danerys. Poor Jorah though :(

Really hope next week there's a small council scene with just Pycelle and Qyburn looking at each other.

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Its also a shame how much good stuff they seem to be cutting out/changing. I know the last 2 books had a lot of boring crap in them but some stuff was good. Jamies quest to Riverrun, and his refusal to go back and help Cersai were huge in his development. Plus it had more Blackfish and that's not a bad thing. Now he's still pussy whipped, doing whatever she says and headed off to Dorne.

I guess he's either just about done in Dorne (and free to head off to Riverrun) or is going to stay in Dorne to guard/try and get to know his daughter, so has the opportunity to ignore Cersei either way.

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I need a supercut of all the long, ominous shots of Olly this season.

They were really laying it on in this episode.

I also enjoyed Daenerys meeting Tyrion and re-uniting with Jorah. It should have happened in ADWD.

The Sand Snakes acting improved markedly in this episode.

Well, there is still room for improvement for the other two...

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So bad. Why did they use MS Paint to colour him in?

Why do it at all? Do old Targ's go off really quickly or something?

Good episode though. Didn't like how low-key the Tyrion/Daenerys meet was but strong stuff everywhere else.

Fuck you, Reek & DONT YOU FUCKING DARE, STANNIS.

JUST. FUCKING. DONT.

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