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Daley
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8 hours ago, abc said:

 

Except he apparently researched Littlefinger's entire history of plotting, briefed Sansa on it all, and was able to throw back specific lines to order when an incident was discussed. :unsure:

 

Seems less a case of "we haven't explained the details" and more a case of "it does what the plot requires, and we don't want you to think about it otherwise".

Or perhaps he had been looking at memories of his father, came across littlefinger betraying him and so researched his entire history

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1 hour ago, abc said:

 

I agree he would become a cheap plot device. So, clearly, they're not going to do that. But that's using meta information "makers of a show wouldn't do this", instead of the reasoning being in-world. So, looking in-world...

 

We've seemingly seen he can do it (at least, in my reading of the show, which I don't think is stretching it), so Sansa, Jon et al would be idiots not to ask him about it. If it turns out he can't actually look at "past and present" at will, it should be explained on-screen. Sure, we can ret-con it, but there's a limit as to how much I want to explain on behalf of the writers. This isn't chains, this seems a pretty key thing for them to be vague about it (I suspect they are being purposefully vague to give themselves wiggle room, but it then casts doubt on the intelligence of Bran's family).

 

I understand what you are saying but I simply do not agree with the logic behind it. Arguing that we have to see Jon or Sansa asking Bran something and if he can't do it this should be explained on screen or otherwise that will mean that the Starks are stupid seems, more or less, a wasted scene in my eyes. No one understands what Bran's gift is, we have seen that clearly. Not even Sam who knows his history and myths. It is easy to assume, in my eyes at least, that they have left Bran alone to try and gain control of this thing, knowing for certain that if something important comes up he will let them know about it. I think that is enough for now. It allows for a nice storytelling space which, if handled correctly, can create immensely dramatic scenes, like what happened with Hodor.

 

I see no reason for the writers to explain to us the mechanics behind the three eyed raven, especially when the character who is the three eyed raven has little idea of what it means. We have seen one of Bran's current limitations, for example, when the NK dispersed his spying crows and I am sure we will get more and more info about Bran and his role. Clever writers do not use explanation as much though but purpose. GRRM has done that a lot and I hope the writers follow his example as much as they can without falling into the boring deus ex machina trap that they fell twice during episode 6. 

 

Anyways, I think we have exhausted the issue. :P

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10 hours ago, Wickedkitten said:

They really would have been better off getting him a Sephiroth style wig

 

 

tumblr_ovgovnTL2U1qa5ncho1_1280.thumb.jpg.933f98119d1c575b976e3de19d5d8f48.jpg

 

The ratty wig was such a mistake. Viserys was opposed to have been a less attractive version of his brother. So give Rhaegar a beautifully coiffured do. Idiots. I hate it when they screw up the simple stuff.

 

I'll forgive them for making the dragons look beyond incredible. 

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3 minutes ago, GMass said:

I think the reverse - rhaegar should have the rougher hair given he was a warrior and his brother would be better as he was a feckless self absorbed princeling.

 

I will say no more on the subject as I suddenly feel very pathetic.

 

Aw, I'm sorry :hug:

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1 hour ago, abc said:

It would be like if we'd been shown that a particular character was a rock hard fighter, and could basically beat anyone who attacked them, but then a non-fighter just walked up and killed them in a sword fight.

 

ramsay-bolton-game-of-thrones_660x380.jp

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23 hours ago, Wickedkitten said:

They are going to be shit at cold weather full stop and remember, they can leave whenever they want.

 

To the great green grass of home.

 

22 hours ago, Silent Runner said:

Or just have him chucked out another window if he gets too uppity. 

 

Bran-22: if he doesn't see it coming...

 

21 hours ago, Glasgowchivas said:

Who want to bet that Daario, last seen being dumped in a pyramid by Dany, is the head of the newly recruited Golden Company?

 

Yeah, Friendzone's nothing much else on, I suppose.

 

16 hours ago, abc said:

Or simply have a regular quick gander at current key locations, like Cersei's office, the Small Council meeting chamber (if Cersei even bothers with that any more), the wall, etc.

 

But what if the loadtimes suck? The warning about getting stuck must be about missing Amiga disks.

 

14 hours ago, russ said:

Or perhaps he had been looking at memories of his father, came across littlefinger betraying him and so researched his entire history

 

But got waylaid with Danny Dyer, hence his delay.

 

14 hours ago, NexivRed said:

The ratty wig was such a mistake.

 

For making him look like a right fop, if nothing else. I wouldn't have backed him against Hot Pie.

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8 hours ago, abc said:

 

I wasn't arguing we should have boring, on-the-nose scenes spelling it out. We've had plenty of terrible info-dump scenes this season, and I definitely don't want that.

 

However, leaving major abilities completely unexplained, is in my view a plot hole. It would be like if we'd been shown that a particular character was a rock hard fighter, and could basically beat anyone who attacked them, but then a non-fighter just walked up and killed them in a sword fight. Fans would be there with the "yeah buts", and sure, there would be possible explanations, but I think that kind of thing falls on the side of the line where it's the writers' job to explain it. If a character has an important ability, its parameters should be at least broadly explained.

 

To be clear, I don't want a scene where Bran sits down and goes "by the way, the limits of my powers are as follows...". What I want is to be shown - not told - these limits (probably as part of a scene where he uses the powers, so we don't "waste a scene", as you put it). At it stands, it appears that Sansa can just ask him and he will provide.

 

And yes, I agree that we have pretty much exhausted the issue.

 

We agree on the fundamentals of storytelling at least. We should write a book. :D

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Do we know that Bran is just coming to terms with his powers? Has there been a scene in the last season where he's struggling or confused or wrong? 

 

It seems to me he's now just the three eyed raven and can now do everything he can do. 

 

One thing that confuses me though. I thought the Raven was only able to see through the Wierwood trees? So how was he able to say exactly what Littlefinger said to Ned in the throneroom?

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1 hour ago, Mr Cochese said:

Bran implied that he can see the future, so he's basically GoT's wallhack player now.

 

Didn't he say "i can see what has happened or is happening" or words to that effect.

 

Not sure he said the future explicitly but may be wrong.

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12 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

Bran is becoming the three eyed raven, he is not there yet. The fact that he can be asked about things doesn't mean that he can answer all of them them yet. I am more interested to see the limits of his power than the extension of it actually. Hopefully the writers feel the same.

 

How do you know that though? That was my question. As far as I can tell there's been nothing in this season to say that he's anything but the Three Eyed Raven in all his power.

 

He's never mentioned how he's still learning, he's never been wrong, anytime we've seen him he's been spot on.

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It's a difficult role. I think most actors would struggle to make "I am the three eyed raven" resonate. Weirdly, you would have thought they'd move away from having him say this ridiculous name out loud, but they seem to be leaning into it and subverting it a bit - i.e. having Sam do an "Ooooookaaaaayyy, you're the three eyed raven, of course you are" look when he came to meet him. An unusual approach, but it worked pretty well.

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31 minutes ago, Daley said:

 

Didn't he say "i can see what has happened or is happening" or words to that effect.

 

Not sure he said the future explicitly but may be wrong.

He said he's the three eyed raven, then listed only two things his eyes can see - and kind of left it hanging.

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On 30/08/2017 at 09:18, The Fox said:

Yeah with the way the scene was lit people could be mistaken for thinking it was Viserys, and people not good with names/faces could have got quite confused. No idea why they didn't just give him a totally different hairstyle.

 

Doesn't it make sense that having been about ten when he last saw his awesome brother who everyone loved because he was so amazing that Viserys would model himself on that amazing brother? 

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44 minutes ago, Daley said:

 

Didn't he say "i can see what has happened or is happening" or words to that effect.

 

Not sure he said the future explicitly but may be wrong.

 

Aye, he said he can see everything that has happened and everything that is happening

 

9 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

Doesn't it make sense that having been about ten when he last saw his awesome brother who everyone loved because he was so amazing that Viserys would model himself on that amazing brother? 

 

 

Yeah, but he was also meant to be so fit that despite fucking her own brother who was meant to be one of the most handsome men in Westeros, Cersei was infatuated with Rhaegar, pretty much the same way that Robert was infatuated with Lyanna.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

Doesn't it make sense that having been about ten when he last saw his awesome brother who everyone loved because he was so amazing that Viserys would model himself on that amazing brother? 

 

It does, yeah, but in practical terms for viewers who may not be so sharp on names/faces I think it may have led to some confusion.

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