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11 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

 

It really, really wasn’t a money based decision. GoT shoots on camera called the Alexa, meaning the VFX will have been done in a format called LogC (I’m sure the VFX posters here can back me up on this) where everything would have been visible regardless. It was a creative decision made during the grade, and it worked for me, on my screen at least. I’m looking forward to properly seeing it without compression though.

 

 

That doesn't fly at all. The horizon line in the majority of the battles is like 30 feet. If they'd used the entire logarithmic 4k image they would have had to dress to the horizon, either in frame or later in post. By bringing the horizon line so close they save themselves buckets of work.

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10 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

 

That doesn't fly at all. The horizon line in the majority of the battles is like 30 feet. If they'd used the entire logarithmic 4k image they would have had to dress to the horizon, either in frame or later in post. By bringing the horizon line so close they save themselves buckets of work.

 

Oh sure, but that’s clearly a creative choice. They wanted flames going into the darkness and being snuffed out, and then monsters coming out of the darkness.

 

The episode was 95% VFX shots regardless, adding a crowd to the distance is neither here nor there compared to animating a photo-real skeleton clambering up a wall whilst interacting with tens of extras as the camera shakes, even when the cuts are short. It must have been an absolute fucking nightmare to track.

 

Anything that can be done in 2D like crowds would have been way, way cheaper than proper CG like the dragon sequence. I thought it was a miracle for the amount of money they supposedly spent per ep (that said the previous one was almost a bottle-episode).

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7 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

 

Oh sure, but that’s clearly a creative choice. They wanted flames going into the darkness and being snuffed out, and then monsters coming out of the darkness.

 

The episode was 95% VFX shots regardless, adding a crowd to the distance is neither here nor there compared to animating a photo-real skeleton clambering up a wall whilst interacting with tens of extras as the camera shakes, even when the cuts are short. It must have been an absolute fucking nightmare to track.

 

Anything that can be done in 2D like crowds would have been way, way cheaper than proper CG like the dragon sequence. I thought the ep was a miracle for the amount of money they spent on it tbf.

 

Yeah it was an incredible achievement, no doubt. It's just too dark.

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18 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

It is almost as if they were fighting a battle against a dude who is known as the NIGHT King.

 

He is only called that as he is a relation of Michael, clever clogs.

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Oh and way earlier someone mentioned turning off the dynamic contrast on their girlfriend’s TV: if you thought the ep was too dark then turn it on, it will probably help.

 

Dynamic contrast stretches out the signal so the black level stays consistently low whilst also lifting the highlights, meaning you can drastically improve the visibility without subjecting yourself to the horrible blotchy washed out blacks that just increasing the brightness would cause. Purists don’t like it because it’s technically adjusting the source material, but when the source material is a shitty compressed stream there’s not much artistry to lose. 

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5 minutes ago, APM said:

I downloaded the 720p web rip of this. It was nowhere near that dark. It was closer to the lighter shot. It didn't even occur to me it was too dark. Thought it was fine.

Yeah, this. Nowhere near that bad. Looks like I dodged a bullet because my Sky box broke and wasn't working to watch it on that.

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The whinging about the lighting was tedious 4 days ago, it is excruciating now. Yeah it is fucking dark, it makes perfect thematic sense. Of course, at the moment of the Night King's greatest triumph, when he is about to swallow the light and snuff out the dying embers of humanity, it is going to be a bit dark out.

 

The Dothraki stuff, maybe is slightly silly from a sound military standpoint*, but the Rule of Cool has to apply here.

 

The characters like Brienne, Sam, Jamie, etc being locked into a weird death loop where they don't actually die and are condemned to fight on and on is a bit odd from the perspective of those who insist on heavy levels of realism in their high fantasy, but again I think people are maybe missing the overall themes of the show that this underscores - the battle is likely intended to evoke Dante's Inferno and its conception of Hell as a serious of ever worsening circles in which characters are trapped and doomed to endlessly repeat their agony for all eternity. In the same way, Westeros has been doomed to repeat this cycle of Winter and Night King invasion for however long it has been.

 

*and I'm not actually sure it is that daft really. There is no room in Winterfell to fit all of the Dothraki anyway, let alone their horses. Secondly it is fucking dark as has been clearly been established which would rule out any complex flanking maneuvers. Thirdly and most importantly, their opponents are, mostly, unarmoured, unarmed, disorganised infantry with no archers, who conventionally would be extremely vulnerable to cavalry. Fourthly, they don't know the exact enemy strength, but, as the show creators have mentioned, this isn't just a fuckload of Dothraki, it is virtually ALL the male Dothraki of fighting age. I think given all of the above it is not unreasonable to imagine that a massed cavalry charge could breakthrough the enemy lines, wheel around, and then strike them again in the rear, trapping them between the Dothraki and the Unsullied.

 

Don't ask me why they position the ballistae where they do though, that is stupid.

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26 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

The whinging about the lighting was tedious 4 days ago, it is excruciating now. Yeah it is fucking dark, it makes perfect thematic sense. Of course, at the moment of the Night King's greatest triumph, when he is about to swallow the light and snuff out the dying embers of humanity, it is going to be a bit dark out.

 

 

The most tedious thing you can post on a forum is a post saying you find certain posts tedious. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's. Get over yourself.

It's a thread to discuss Game of Thrones. 

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Ok chief, maybe you should head back to the Avengers thread to explain again how the film confused you because you couldn't understand

 

how a pair of superheroes stole some military uniforms or whatever?

 

Edited for spoilers for Avengers Endgame.

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On 01/05/2019 at 08:37, therearerules said:

You wanted footage of her sneaking past white walkers? Even though that was shown literally in the same episode earlier and would have ruined that ending 

 

 

On 01/05/2019 at 08:18, JohnC said:

Did you miss the conversation with Mel about blue eyes?

Yes it was all foreshadowed but it doesn't mean it can't also be clunky and unsatisfying. 

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1 hour ago, ChewMagma said:

*and I'm not actually sure it is that daft really. There is no room in Winterfell to fit all of the Dothraki anyway, let alone their horses. Secondly it is fucking dark as has been clearly been established which would rule out any complex flanking maneuvers. Thirdly and most importantly, their opponents are, mostly, unarmoured, unarmed, disorganised infantry with no archers, who conventionally would be extremely vulnerable to cavalry. Fourthly, they don't know the exact enemy strength, but, as the show creators have mentioned, this isn't just a fuckload of Dothraki, it is virtually ALL the male Dothraki of fighting age. I think given all of the above it is not unreasonable to imagine that a massed cavalry charge could breakthrough the enemy lines, wheel around, and then strike them again in the rear, trapping them between the Dothraki and the Unsullied.

 

I don't sign up to any of that I'm afraid. It's just opinions though and all part of the fun of the show! :) There's no point me countering your points (even though my fingers are itching to) let's just say though, I'm very confident grrm's battle (if he does a Winterfell one) won't go down like the show's. And it'll still be insanely exciting. I'm still hoping he goes with my dragon towers tbh.

 

Let's keep the fun going with this! Love his videos. :)

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

I have now watched this episode twice, and sorry to be “debbie-downer” but i think it might be my least favourite episode of this show ever.

Unless you wrote it you have no reason to apologise. Thought your post was spot on.

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23 hours ago, ChewMagma said:

Edited: removed Endgame spoiler

 

How about we don't include plot/scene details in here from other very recent shows/films?

 

Edit: Oops, sorry for stupidly quoting the post in question!

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4 minutes ago, SpagMasterSwift said:
  Reveal hidden contents

It’s just the internet’s version of being polite.

 

 

Ok no, you're right, that was a bad reaction on my part, feeling grumpy this morning, sorry everyone.

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12 hours ago, CarloOos said:

Oh and way earlier someone mentioned turning off the dynamic contrast on their girlfriend’s TV: if you thought the ep was too dark then turn it on, it will probably help

 

That was me. I didn't find the episode too dark, but the TV was blurring frames together (interpolation at work, I suspect) in a way that utterly failed during dark scenes, leaving hideous smearing artifacts.

 

So I turned off every setting that amounted to the TV doing something to the picture as a starting point. But I didn't do this until after the episode so I only had a brief check by going back to some of the worst scenes, where I saw a great improvement in clarity.

 

As you say, dynamic contrast may actually help rather than hinder. I'll give it a proper fiddle when I get around to it later.

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I actually really enjoyed the experience of watching this episode, I stuck the brightness up a little bit at the beginning and I never felt I was missing too much as I felt like it was a really immersive experience for the most part. A lot of the complaints will be down to the fact that most people will have all their TV 'optimisations' on by default, so the TV thinks it has a badly lit scene to improve and ends up making it a million times worse. There's a campaign by quite a few directors to get TV manufacturers to remove all that crap as it stops things being watched the way they were intended to be. I turned everything off on my TV as soon as I got it.

 

The first 45 mins or so to me were just brilliant, tactics aside the shots of the Dothraki charging in with fireballs screaming across the sky above them gave me the chills, but following that up with the rest of the characters watching the flames extinguish and be consumed by the darkness, and showing the realisation that what was coming was pretty much unstoppable was a really powerful scene I think. The fact that all the battle hardened characters were pretty much broken mid way through the battle also showed the enormity of what they were facing, so I think that part was well done.

 

I guess it was after that point where things started to turn a bit and you began to wonder how anyone was still alive, save a few side characters dying. I managed to continue watching without questioning too much but in hindsight after reading all the main gripes people have it has changed my opinion a little bit, and it made me realise that I was thinking the same things at certain points - how did Jon survive all the dead rising and surrounding him? Why did Dany just sit there on her dragon whilst the dead were clambering over it? When Arya did her bit I did think that surely it couldn't be as easy as that, I felt like that could have been done a lot better, and nothing was explained really about the night king.

 

I think ultimately they have pushed themselves too hard to try and conclude everything in only 6 episodes, which means we maybe don't get to see everything play out in as much detail as we've come to expect before now, which is a real shame. George RR Martin has played a blinder though, he can now get feedback on everything people don't like about the way this is going and change it all for the books, and claim that it was the way he always intended it! :D 

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Speaking as someone who spent an absurd amount of time calibrating their telly will people please stop with the herp derp people who complain just had their tellies set up wrong stuff. Especially on a forum like this where most posters are pretty tech savvy and unlikely to be watching it in a Bush TV from Argos with default settings.

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12 hours ago, gizmo1990 said:

 

I don't sign up to any of that I'm afraid. It's just opinions though and all part of the fun of the show! :) There's no point me countering your points (even though my fingers are itching to) let's just say though, I'm very confident grrm's battle (if he does a Winterfell one) won't go down like the show's. And it'll still be insanely exciting. I'm still hoping he goes with my dragon towers tbh.

 

Let's keep the fun going with this! Love his videos. :)

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately this fella underestimated the army of the dead's ability to climb and also the weather effects which hampered any attempts to shoot down the zombie dragon, which sensibly did not enter the battle till the late stages. Again Winterfell is not that big, I don't think they could even nearly fit all of their army into it, so some troops would have needed to be positioned outside the castle.

 

The sensible thing would have been to keep the Dothraki horde or at least part of it in some sort of reserve.

 

Jon Snow has long been established as a pretty poor general though. The Battle of the Bastards in particular was a tactical disaster that the Bolton lad deserved to win.

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