Game of Thrones - No Book Chat. NONE. The Books don't exist.

[Broker]

8 hours ago, Escaped said:

 

For the benefit of heathens?

 

Book euron has a magic horn that hurts dragons.

[footle]

6 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

Book euron has a magic horn that hurts dragons.

 

Technically, which is rumoured to...

No-one’s ever actually seen it tested.

[Darren]

Talky episodes >>> fighty episodes.

 

Yes it’s becoming increasingly silly and rushed but that was the closest in style to a series 1 episode we’ve had for ages. No supernatural threat, just lots of powerful people scheming and plotting.

 

Arya is going to end up in charge.

[scottcr]

52 minutes ago, footle said:

 

Technically, which is rumoured to...

No-one’s ever actually seen it tested.

 

Book spoiler

It killed the guy who blew it didn’t it?

[K]

The idea that George RR Martin is some kind of master of plotting is pretty odd given that it’s taken him 23 years to not finish a trilogy that has metastasised to the point where he’s not even sure how many volumes are still to go. 

 

That aside, was it just me, or did the Mountain look like a goth Cylon?

[DeciderVT]

1 hour ago, NickC said:

My god this show is so awful.

 

There are just so many things wrong with it.

 

The show runners don't know what they're doing.

 

In truth it's been bad for a long time now.

 

I don't enjoy it any more.

 

Such a shame.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Same time next week?

 

Of course.

 

 

I've often wondered why TV writers have been allowed to get away with some really shabby standards on high profile programmes in recent times- so much of the writing and the way the characters behave becomes wildly inconsistent and often fails to bear even the lightest scrutiny. Saying that GoT has become a programme whose characters are now bent to behave expediently in service of the greater narrative seems spot-on but I would've expected any TV writing room worth their salt to have hammered these inconsistencies out at the most formative stage of the process, especially when they began to run out of source material. I get the impression that the showrunners operate in the same way as product owners or project managers- sketching out high level character arcs and leaving the unpleasant process of filling in the necessary details to the grunts. Then possibly changing their minds (and the scope) several times afterwards.

[BossSaru]

I thought it was a great episode.

 

 

Once you get over the obvious plot holes, such as Dany's advisors forgetting that Cersei had a navy and had previously fired a massive ballista at Drogon, and Cersei pointing several huge ballistae at Dany and not firing, everything else seemed just right.

 

The first section, showing the honouring of the dead followed by the frantic relief of the living, felt good and juxtaposed the previous episode well. I loved the scenes of drunken celebrations, and Jon's naieve belief that Sansa was not going to immediately spread his secret to plot Dany's downfall. Also, Tyrion's and Varys' scheming - this is always a welcomed addition.

Arya and The Hound back on the road again. That is good. Whilst I do not expect that we will see Arya's direwolf again she is riding through its 'territory' on their way to King's Landing. In any case, Arya clearly has a plan. Possibly involving giving Jon a hand in taking the crown from Dany. She seemed pretty focused on putting some more points into her archery skill, and I expect that she and Sansa are, once again, working together after their takedown of Littlefinger last season.

Not sure what the point of Bronn's contribution was though. It added nothing and felt like the writers just thought they needed to include him as fan service.

Looking forward to next week's battle. Cersei's reliance on mercenaries may be her undoing - possibly a last-minute switcheroo from them following an offer from Tyrion or Varys? Or perhaps the Iron Bank blocking Cersei's credit card for non-payment?

[JohnC]

Nobody gets the Iron Throne because Gattis turns up with the bailiffs to repossess it. 

[The Fox]

These episodes are so long and so fucking stupid. I'm happy for people still enjoying it and wish I felt the same, but this is really dragging for me now.

[Waggo]

Spoiler

Not sure why everyone is just assuming that Sansa spilling the beans to Tyrion is a betrayal of Jon.  Yes I know the show wants you to think that, but crucially it did not show the actual reveal, and Sansa, Arya and Brans reaction to it.  To me there in lies the seeds for the seasons big twist.  Why was Arya before the reveal all for House Stark, and then 2 minutes after buggering off to Kings Landing with the Hound and expecting not to be returning?  Why make a big issue this season as to how smart Sansa now is?  Also don’t forget mystic Bran.  My take especially with how clumsy the season has been foreshadowing evil Danny and the fact that Cersei appeared to gain the upper hand with Euron apparently taking out the dragon, that it will turn out to be a plot to flush out Danny’s enemies.  This will turn out to be Varys not Tyrion who has to die anyway as prophesised by Melisandre, and Danny will end up Queen.  Would not be surprised if Jon does not turn up on the dragon either, as otherwise the obvious time to have killed it off would have been during the fight with the NK.

 

 

[probotector]

8 hours ago, Stigweard said:

 

Hope not, I don't want to see her in the throne at this point. She fucking sucks. I genuinely don't even think there will be an iron throne once it all over. Kings Landing will be sacked and left in ruins, the throne shattered and Winterfell will be the new capital and Sansa will be the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.

 

She sucked from day 1. She had the excuse of being just a child then, but she isn’t any more.

 

Not only is she dumb as a plank, she has no military nouse, she’s not a people person and now she only has 1 dragon left, half her army gone and no personal assistant.

 

She sucks, the fact that her own advisors are looking to jump ship should be a sign.

 

Plus, she’s so fucking dumb, she’s walking into an obvious trap. They want her to burn all those innocent people.

 

The biggest Pisstake is when she rants about people killing her dad, the mad king.

 

Jaimie and gendry should have reminded her and that her dad was fucking evil and insane. 

[kensei]

10 hours ago, therearerules said:

I actually really enjoyed that, thought most people here would have as well. I think we need to get something straight though-

the books suffered a great deterioration in quality and plotting to the point where they will never be finished. That means that a lot of criticisms seem to be comparisons to some imagined perfection, which could never be matched.

 

The books slowed to an absolute crawl, but they did not get near the level of stupid we've seen regularly in seasons 6-8. And as many problems as the Dorne storyline had, the version in the show was the absolute worst. They stripped out a lot in later books - they had to, really - but I suspect that made it harder to work from GRRMs plans. So much if it won't matter here. 

 

It's not imagined perfection either, it's stuff that could be fixed - like showing the passage of time visually thatbwoukd negate some of the fast travel issues, or polishing up obvious plot holes. I enjoy it for what it is now. But in the early seasons it didn't feel like other TV shows.

[Harsin]

Remember after Game of Thrones these two chucklefucks are supposed to be writing their what if slavery was never abolished makes u think huh show. A project that would need a hell of a lot of sensitivity and nuance to even remotely work. That’s going to be a glorious train wreck.

[Fitzcarraldo]

That was a bad episode of television.
 

Spoiler

 

That Bronn scene was so weird. It was like the actor was late for another acting job so had to get the scene done in one take and leave. Even ignoring how badly wedged into the episode it was, the actual acting and writing was atrocious. I might watch it again to make sure it's as bad as I'm remembering. The actor playing Bronn seemed to be getting increasingly bored by it all as the scene went on, rattling off line after line without taking a breath.

 

Arya: My brother, Jon, what's wrong? We're family, brother Jon.

Sansa: Yeah, what's up, brother Jon.

Jon: I've got a secret to tell you. But you can't tell anyone.

Arya: John, my brother and son to our father Ned Stark, I am your sister, we are family, I promise. What is it?

Jon: Weeeellll.

 

And Euron is a laughable villain in a show that's always had fascinating, multi-dimensional villains. Imagine trying to describe Euron to someone who doesn't watch the show without describing his appearance? Uh, he's a bit of a dick? And uses a crossbow like it's his dick?

 

 

[probotector]

Chucklefucks? lol

 

I just don’t understand their reasoning to finishing it up so fast.

 

Evil Danny deserves a whole season not most likely half a season! 

 

Just give the show to someone else. Not only has the decision screwed the fans, it’s screwed HBO, they are leaving so much money on the table.

 

This is the first time I’ve experienced a top class show jumping the shark because they want to end it early rather than milking it beyond its sell by date.

 

 

[BossSaru]

14 minutes ago, Fitzcarraldo said:

 

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Imagine trying to describe Euron to someone who doesn't watch the show without describing his appearance? Uh, he's a bit of a dick? And uses a crossbow like it's his dick?

 

 

Budget Bennett-from-Commando with a pirate ship

 

[therearerules]

19 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

The books slowed to an absolute crawl, but they did not get near the level of stupid we've seen regularly in seasons 6-8. And as many problems as the Dorne storyline had, the version in the show was the absolute worst. They stripped out a lot in later books - they had to, really - but I suspect that made it harder to work from GRRMs plans. So much if it won't matter here. 

 

It's not imagined perfection either, it's stuff that could be fixed - like showing the passage of time visually thatbwoukd negate some of the fast travel issues, or polishing up obvious plot holes. I enjoy it for what it is now. But in the early seasons it didn't feel like other TV shows.

That’s because the books never got to season 6 or beyond. If they ever do (they won’t) it’ll be after much more time than the TV show could be allowed.

[Fry Crayola]

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, probotector said:

Evil Danny deserves a whole season not most likely half a season!

 

Evil Dany hasn't just come out of nowhere. Ever since Meereen, she's needed her advisors to keep her worst instincts in check. She's always been a pretty horrible ruler when it comes to vengeance. So these final stages are the culmination of those seasons of development - it's not as though she's just turned heel and needs time to bed in.

 

[probotector]

Just now, Fry Crayola said:

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Evil Dany hasn't just come out of nowhere. Ever since Mereen, she's needed her advisors to keep her worst instincts in check. She's always been a pretty horrible ruler when it comes to vengeance. So these final stages are the culmination of those seasons of development - it's not as though she's just turned heel and needs time to bed in.

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah, totally, she was always very brutal and looked to punish and kill as worse as any of her foes, so I guess you are right.

 

But she needs a full season of full of a mad queen arc before Jon takes her down.

 

Could have been an epic ending.

 

[therearerules]

I feel sorry for Dany, she sacrifices her winning shot at the throne for the North, who immediately forget.

 

The North never bloody remembers.

[Gommy]

1 hour ago, DeciderVT said:

I've often wondered why TV writers have been allowed to get away with some really shabby standards on high profile programmes in recent times- so much of the writing and the way the characters behave becomes wildly inconsistent and often fails to bear even the lightest scrutiny. Saying that GoT has become a programme whose characters are now bent to behave expediently in service of the greater narrative seems spot-on but I would've expected any TV writing room worth their salt to have hammered these inconsistencies out at the most formative stage of the process, especially when they began to run out of source material. I get the impression that the showrunners operate in the same way as product owners or project managers- sketching out high level character arcs and leaving the unpleasant process of filling in the necessary details to the grunts. Then possibly changing their minds (and the scope) several times afterwards.

 

It's actually pretty simple in this regard.  Budgeting/pitching is done pretty much for the early seasons.  Any season after that is based on having an audience, there will be budget there if there is an audience it's just what that budget is that changes.  After the early seasons the timelines are relatively fixed and the budget based on revenue is relatively fixed so the aspect that ends up changing is quality. 

[wavey]

29 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Remember after Game of Thrones these two chucklefucks are supposed to be writing their what if slavery was never abolished makes u think huh show. A project that would need a hell of a lot of sensitivity and nuance to even remotely work. That’s going to be a glorious train wreck.

 

Jesus, I was sure Confederate had been cancelled, but apparently not. Yikes.

 

I wonder if the most important part of the episode was

Spoiler

Gendry being made a trueborn Lord Baratheon - would that make him next in the line of succession should something unfortunate happen to Dany & Jon?

 

[The Fox]

So are we meant to be thinking Dany is evil and starting to hate her then? Because I felt pretty sorry for her after that episode. Jon massively fucked her over by doing an impression of his idiotically honourable dad/uncle; her dragon and handmaiden got killed; then Varys seemed to suggest he was going to have her assassinated, seemingly just because she can be a bit of a hot head sometimes.

[labarte]

It started off well and had me thinking we were in for an old school Thrones experience where somehow psychological, political, tactical and strategic elements are plausibly blended into a fantastical medieval world.

Needless to say, by the end of the episode I was disappointed.

Spoiler

 

It's not that what they're doing is so bad in terms of the ideas (e.g. Dany going mad like her Dad) it's just it comes across as hasty and if they were going to this way they should have been planting the seeds many seasons ago. The surprises in GoT used to work because they made sense in retrospect when in many cases they don't anymore.

Also Arya killed the fucking Night King and yet hardly anyone says anything about it. I know that she is supposed  to a complete bad ass but I would think an act of such magnitude would have some repercussions for her and the way others treat her. 

Then there was the Bronn scene. Hopefully this is setting up something interesting for later -- at least then it can be put down to being clumsy rather than pointless and clumsy.

 

 

[Fry Crayola]

2 minutes ago, probotector said:

 

  Hide contents

Yeah, totally, she was always very brutal and looked to punish and kill as worse as any of her foes, so I guess you are right.

 

But she needs a full season of full of a mad queen arc before Jon takes her down.

 

Could have been an epic ending.

 

Spoiler

Not only do I not feel it necessary, I think it'd actually be drawn out and boring. Varys and Tyrion can already see it, Sansa and Arya have their doubts. She's on the brink of killing tens of thousands of people in King's Landing, such is her lust for power, and she no longer has a rightful claim to that either.

 

The time to act is now.

 

Or rather at some time in the next three hours.

 

[Gommy]

2 minutes ago, labarte said:

It started off well and had me thinking we were in for an old school Thrones experience where somehow psychological, political, tactical and strategic elements are plausibly blended into a fantastical medieval world.

Needless to say, by the end of the episode I was disappointed.

  Hide contents

 

It's not that what they're doing is so bad in terms of the ideas (e.g. Dany going mad like her Dad) it's just it comes across as hasty and if they were going to this way they should have been planting the seeds many seasons ago. The surprises in GoT used to work because they made sense in retrospect when in many cases they don't anymore.

Also Arya killed the fucking Night King and yet hardly anyone says anything about it. I know that she is supposed  to a complete bad ass but I would think an act of such magnitude would have some repercussions for her and the way others treat her. 

Then there was the Bronn scene. Hopefully this is setting up something interesting for later -- at least then it can be put down to being clumsy rather than pointless and clumsy.

 

 

 

The Bronn scene makes no sense.  If he's a calculating mercenary he kills them now and collects the money.  Right now all the people that may pay him out may end up dead and he has no collateral.  

 

The worse thing about Dany isn't her going Mad King, but the fact Jon talks about it like she is the rightful heir and that isn't a weird position to take (doubly so in the Westeros society), even if he doesn't want it, you would think someone that doesn't want it would question why their lover that does want it is so desperate for it.  There's a few arguments you can make here, but I wish in their chat they could have at least convinced me of why Jon thinks Dany is the best ruler, but scripting wise it did not do this for me.

 

 

 

 

[BeeJay]

I think Dany losing everything that she loved and trusted has played out well this season. She is now just depressed and I really hope it doesn't just turn that in to 'the mad queen's.

[Harsin]

Euron feels like a character who would normally be the antagonist in an episode of Only Fools and Horses, selling Del a load of broken pagers or something and then getting counter-scammed at the end, who somehow got transported to fantasy land and decided to start murdering people.

[therearerules]

6 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Euron feels like a character who would normally be the antagonist in an episode of Only Fools and Horses, selling Del a load of broken pagers or something and then getting counter-scammed at the end, who somehow got transported to fantasy land and decided to start murdering people.

Yup he’s great!

[Gommy]

He's more Lord Flashheart would be better played by Rik Mayall.