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Cyberpunk 2077 - Please use spoiler tags


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Just now, Oz said:
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I unified the other personalities and created some fucking monstrosity. I was just trying to please keanu.  

 

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Spoiler

I was hoping for a follow up quest from the new AI, but nevermind.

 

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Aaaaand. Choices made. Dunno if it's a 'good' ending or not, but it seems right for my V.

 

Ending spoiler. You've been warned.

 

Spoiler

Johnny Silverhand lives on...

 

Edit: wow. Those credits are ridiculous. I think everyone in Poland is in there.

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I don't want to make excuses for CDPR*, but it's hard to course correct over 7+ years. You can't pinpoint predict where PC and console hardware is going to end up in that time.

 

They were dealt multiple bad hands over the last two years - to me it seems crazy that Sony and Microsoft didn't make a much more concerted effort to establish their mid-gen machines as the baseline long before now. Nintendo figured this out for their handhelds pre-Switch. It doesn't make sense when disc sales are dwindling away to force every game to release simultaneously on the base machines.

 

Plus of course they didn't know when the next gen machines were going to hit, or their specs. Then they had to finalise and QA the game remotely. (I don't think that video is throwing the QA teams under the bus - more saying that it's impossible to QA a game in the same way, and in the same amount of time, with the extra obstacle of remote work.)

 

But as this thread shows, as time goes on the legit grievances will be fixed and the bullshit tabloid drama (that only wholesale clown outlets like Polygon have tried to sustain into this year, after it became obvious the game bore no resemblence to the edgelord caricature they'd built it up to be) will evaporate. Not sure about GOTY, but it will certainly be seen as a landmark PC game like Quake, Deus Ex, Stalker, Crysis, The Sims, etc.

 

*He says again, making more excuses for CDPR

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Whoever designed the

 

Spoiler

beat on the brat final fight needs to be fired into the sun. Even with leg gorilla arms, lots of strength health and armor, you’re trapped in a ring with a joker who can take you out with one barrage. And the most recent checkpoint is before a bunch of sodding dialogue. In the end I won because he glitched and got stuck standing on the rope and couldn’t attack so I just swung into his stomach until it was over. 

for a proxy 3 grand!

 

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7 hours ago, MK-1601 said:

Plus of course they didn't know when the next gen machines were going to hit, or their specs. Then they had to finalise and QA the game remotely. (I don't think that video is throwing the QA teams under the bus - more saying that it's impossible to QA a game in the same way, and in the same amount of time, with the extra obstacle of remote work.)

 

To be honest, I'm not really buying that. I haven't watched the video, so I don't know exactly how they phrased any comments about it, but most QA is done remotely - i.e. with cheap, overseas resources - anyway. Bug reports are written up, videos are attached, etc. Sure, sometimes if you can walk over and discuss an issue, it might help, but in most cases, especially late in development, I don't think it makes much difference, and it's not like we're talking about subtle, difficult to find bugs here. (Less true earlier in development, where it might be more helpful to have a QA team that's more involved and knows what is or isn't supposed to be functional yet. By the late stages, obviously everything should be working.)

 

Of course, on the dev side, I completely sympathise with the challenges they'd have faced, especially if they had no significant amount of remote working prior to the pandemic.

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CDPR have a pretty large internal QA team and I know they used at least two very large external QA houses. The amount of QA was flat out not the issue here.

The issue is QA have 100% flagged all of the issues players experienced on day one and more but they've come out and flat out said "Our QA did not find the issues you did"

Errgq6gW4AAmS--?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

I dunno man, as a QA professional, if that ain't throwing your QA under the bus I'm not sure what is. It's not only throwing them under the bus, it's an outright lie in a video about them being honest.

Sure Covid HAS made it more difficult, that much is true but it has NOT made it impossible to test. Both platform holders are way more relaxed about having test kits at home due to Covid (Xbox and PlayStations can both be operated remotely if need be also), most studios still have a limited amount of people coming into the office (usually QA). The issue here is management. It always is.

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The one bug I find it incredible they can claim not to have found is the problem that the AI seems to have of driving if V is a passenger.  
 

There are at least two missions I’ve encountered where if you just sit there rather than skipping ahead with B the driver will just keep smashing the car into other vehicles and walls until they can’t go forwards any more, when they just continue ramming the vehicle back and forth.

 

Doesn’t affect Panam for some reason.

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The idea that they didn't know they were launching the Xbox One version with some of the gunfights and car chases running at 15fps, or didn't know that some of these show-stoppingly hilarious bugs existed, is ludicrous  The video is half apology and half disingenuous nonsense.

 

I still have Cyberpunk sat on my shelf completely unplayed and I'm just not going to bother with it until the end of the year looking at that roadmap. I definitely regret buying it Day 1 and certainly won't be buying CDPR's next game day 1 either. They've squandered an enormous amount of goodwill over this and come off as quite an amateurishly managed outfit.

 

I hope they turn things around though. I don't bear them any ill-will, I think they just got in over their heads thinking they were one of the big boys after a single big hit. I'm sure they'll learn a lot from this for next time.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Majora said:

The idea that they didn't know they were launching the Xbox One version with some of the gunfights and car chases running at 15fps, or didn't know that some of these show-stoppingly hilarious bugs existed, is ludicrous  The video is half apology and half disingenuous nonsense.

 

I still have Cyberpunk sat on my shelf completely unplayed and I'm just not going to bother with it until the end of the year looking at that roadmap. I definitely regret buying it Day 1 and certainly won't be buying CDPR's next game day 1 either. They've squandered an enormous amount of goodwill over this and come off as quite an amateurishly managed outfit.

 

I hope they turn things around though. I don't bear them any ill-will, I think they just got in over their heads thinking they were one of the big boys after a single big hit. I'm sure they'll learn a lot from this for next time.

 

 


Conversely, the £40 I paid out to play this GOTY on Stadia (with controller and Chromecast included!) has been amongst the best money I’ve ever spent.

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27 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

CDPR have a pretty large internal QA team and I know they used at least two very large external QA houses. The amount of QA was flat out not the issue here.

The issue is QA have 100% flagged all of the issues players experienced on day one and more but they've come out and flat out said "Our QA did not find the issues you did"

 

 

I dunno man, as a QA professional, if that ain't throwing your QA under the bus I'm not sure what is. It's not only throwing them under the bus, it's an outright lie in a video about them being honest.

Sure Covid HAS made it more difficult, that much is true but it has NOT made it impossible to test. Both platform holders are way more relaxed about having test kits at home due to Covid (Xbox and PlayStations can both be operated remotely if need be also), most studios still have a limited amount of people coming into the office (usually QA). The issue here is management. It always is.

 

Because he said at the start that it was not the team's fault, when he mentioned QA I understood that the tools for testing were not working properly. Are you saying this is not possible in your experience? Even with COVID and working from home? He is only saying that some things were not found and not that the QA process was a bust.

 

From a consumer perspective you can see this with everything released this year. The PS5 operating system for example had also poor QA. To my uneducated mind it sounds like testing software from home is somehow not as effective. 

 

It is not possible for a team to be shit if they have great management I agree. Management choose the team and they can performance manage people, hire new people, give them better tools, review responsibilities, and just flat out fire some people . However, it is possible for a shit team to also have shit management

 

These absolutes about who is ALWAYS to blame are ALWAYS wrong. There are two sides to every story.

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5 minutes ago, Majora said:

The idea that they didn't know they were launching the Xbox One version with some of the gunfights and car chases running at 15fps, or didn't know that some of these show-stoppingly hilarious bugs existed, is ludicrous  The video is half apology and half disingenuous nonsense.

 

 

I think some expectations people have from the patches are unrealistic. There's only so much performance you can coax out of obsolete hardware.

 

I don't believe they were unaware of the issues, but I can believe that they didn't anticipate how often the streaming system would fall over (pre hotfixes) on mechanical drives.

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1 minute ago, Oz said:

 

Because he said at the start that it was not the team's fault, when he mentioned QA I understood that the tools for testing were not working properly. Are you saying this is not possible in your experience? Even with COVID and working from home?


The tools work. If you're testing remotely stuff like latency can be a minor issue but it's not going to stop you being able to find, report and log the myriad of issues that were present in the game. And as mentioned, the entire team was not working remotely, many, especially QA, would have still been testing locally.

Every single development team has been faced with this exact same issue and change in workflow yet there's only been a handful that have appeared to shit the bed completely. It definitely is a big change when working remotely but it's so far from impossible given the tools we have now and the platform holders actually allowing you to take hardware home.
 

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3 minutes ago, MK-1601 said:

 

I don't believe they were unaware of the issues, but I can believe that they didn't anticipate how often the streaming system would fall over (pre hotfixes) on mechanical drives.


If only the PS4 dev/test kits had a Slow HDD mode to simulate what playing on a fucked drive would be like.

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Not that the development of this is of any concern to me as an issue, but when it comes to remote working it’s foolish to think that because people can work remotely they will be as efficient. Communication via phone / email / Teams is  nice but every one introduces delays that don’t exist when you can just talk to people - I don’t know why QA would be any different.

 

Of course ‘just talking to people’ can introduce its own delay, but when a team is up against the clock remote working is only going to exacerbate any problems.

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If you bought this on Xbox One expecting it to run at 30fps, then you’re kidding yourself - there’s no way this was going to run smoothly, you have to accept a bit of roughness if you play a game that tries to do as much as this is doing. 
 

I struggle to believe that CDPR didn’t spot all the crash bugs and instability, and their statement should have been a bit more open in that regard. 

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6 minutes ago, Bojangle said:


The tools work. If you're testing remotely stuff like latency can be a minor issue but it's not going to stop you being able to find, report and log the myriad of issues that were present in the game. And as mentioned, the entire team was not working remotely, many, especially QA, would have still been testing locally.

Every single development team has been faced with this exact same issue and change in workflow yet there's only been a handful that have appeared to shit the bed completely. It definitely is a big change when working remotely but it's so far from impossible given the tools we have now and the platform holders actually allowing you to take hardware home.
 

but you are saying it is harder then yes? so some things could have been missed? or is it not even that much harder.

Honestly curious not trolling.

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4 minutes ago, Oz said:

but you are saying it is harder then yes? so some things could have been missed? or is it not even that much harder. Honestly curious not trolling.


Harder yes, but harder to the point where "Our testing did not show a big part of the issues"? Very doubtful. I mean we'll never know for sure unless they decided to show their Jira board as it was just prior to release so we can see what was logged but looking at the state the game was in on consoles, even with the day zero patch, I find it close to impossible to believe that the majority of things were "missed".

I'm mostly pissed off on behalf of the QA team because the statement itself is Reddit level garbage. Yes he said not to blame the dev team at the start of the video, but then two minutes later he literally says "our testing did not catch it!". I've zero doubt in my mind that the Internal QA team (who were crunching like crazy for months at this point) were screaming about the issues and the state of the console builds before release. So it's super shitty for them to go "well they didn't see the issues".

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Just now, Bojangle said:


Harder yes, but harder to the point where "Our testing did not show a big part of the issues"? Very doubtful. I mean we'll never know for sure unless they decided to show their Jira board as it was just prior to release so we can see what was logged but looking at the state the game was in on consoles, even with the day zero patch, I find it close to impossible to believe that the majority of things were "missed".

Where I stand on this at present: remote QA is not as effective so a percentage of the problem will be attributable to that.

Based on your experience a low percentage. I get it. 

 

In my opinion, when a project goes tits up I can tell you for sure that management was shit but maybe the team is also bad. Let's face it some people are just not good at their jobs (executives, managers, engineers, testers, etc) and some teams are full of bad people. 

 

I don't think we can tell for sure from the outside. Maybe their testers are shit (as well).   

 

Anyway, this would have been better with the benz in charge. They needed the benz. :) 

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10 minutes ago, eddydonuk said:

Just got a full refund for my physical PS4 copy (purchased from Amazon) directly from CD PROJEKT. Very quick I must admit. And I get to keep the game as well by the look of it.

How far did you get? 

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Well, on the comedown from what has been an amazing ride - the postscript 'mission' was a bittersweet end.

 

Bugs and all, this is a GOTY candidate for me - last time I was this invested in seeing the story through was probably Mass Effect. Lot of credit goes to the VA playing V, but almost all of the supporting players are excellent.

 

Shouldn't have been released in this state - we've basically paid to be beta testers - but I'm glad I got the chance to play it.

 

5 minutes ago, Oz said:

There are two sides to every story.

 

Dude - it's software development; there are at least five.

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1 minute ago, smac said:

Well, on the comedown from what has been an amazing ride - the postscript 'mission' was a bittersweet end.

 

Bugs and all, this is a GOTY candidate for me - last time I was this invested in seeing the story through was probably Mass Effect. Lot of credit goes to the VA playing V, but almost all of the supporting players are excellent.

 

Shouldn't have been released in this state - we've basically paid to be beta testers - but I'm glad I got the chance to play it.

 

 

Dude - it's software development; there are at least five.

I can't wait to see the end. But at my current pace the game will be bug free before I hit act 3. My V is something of a vigilante as well and must get involved in all crimes reported in the city. :facepalm: 

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10 minutes ago, K said:

If you bought this on Xbox One expecting it to run at 30fps, then you’re kidding yourself - there’s no way this was going to run smoothly, you have to accept a bit of roughness if you play a game that tries to do as much as this is doing. 
 

 

There's a big difference between 'doesn't always hit 30fps' and 'drops to a sustained 15fps during certain set-pieces'. If a game gets released on a particular platform it's not unreasonable for the consumer to believe it will perform at an acceptable level. If you can't get your game to run on the hardware properly, don't release it. But of course that would have cost them millions. Regardless, the onus is not on the customer to anticipate they'll be buying a slideshow.

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4 minutes ago, Oz said:

Anyway, this would have been better with the benz in charge. They needed the benz. :) 


Everybody needs the benz!

Anyway, didn't mean to shit the thread up for those of you enjoying it. That video just irked me the wrong way so needed to rant. I'm looking forward to checking the game out whenever the next gen update comes out. Hopefully they'll take their time with it, and give the dev team something that resembles a break between now and then.

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Actually, in the old Mass Effect 2 thread we all wrote up the stories of our final mission - although there you took in a team of characters and a series of choices decided how many made it out. Poor Jack :(. Must try that here.

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I got up to the first main story mission in Pacifica last night, the one in the mall. I imagine it’ll get easier later, but I retract my earlier comments about being OP - 

Spoiler

it was absolutely bastard hard, and predictably descended into a bloodbath as I died over and over again. Perhaps I’m underpowered - I’m playing on hard too - but I had to use every edge I could find to even survive  Hilariously, I kept on killing these super-hard cybered-up wrestler types who kept joining the fray - every time I assumed that was the area boss, and every time I shat my pants a bit when someone even harder turned up.

 

I’m guessing there must be a non-violent way of proceeding, but I got through by hacking a couple of turrets, and desperately cycling between my various quick hacks and weapons. Insanely hard, but very satisfying  

 

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Yeah, that's a tough mission. I think I lucked out by picking up Widowmaker earlier on through concentrating on Panam missions, so I had one very powerful weapon to deal with bad guys and bosses.

 

Spoiler

My usual approach was to use stealth with System Reset for trickier enemies. Stealth allows you to thin out the enemies a lot for when the shit inevitably hit the fan. Always clean up the bodies - just moving them behind boxes is often enough. The reset vision quickhack is useful to prevent being spotted at the last minute.

 

Always look for alternative routes - especially higher up,

 

Widowmaker and spamming grenades/dodge basically dealt with the real Animal Boss - and then after that I got spotted, but was in a good tactical position. Because Widowmaker can shoot (and highlights enemies) through cover, the bad guys would duck behind shop counters/displays, then get shot in the head with a charged shot. Insta-death. Other tech weapons do the same.

 

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