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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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The best thing about Gamergate is many of its main proponents are shameless attention-grabbing shit-flinging arsepieces, so the whole thing just descends into infighting.

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I can't believe Capwn watched the whole 1 hour and ten minutes. Well played.

In the past men would travel to the arctic or the depths of the ocean, test themselves against the elements. But today the real heroes are the ones who march heading into extended YouTube diatribes so they can bring back knowledge to those of us to fearful to follow.

I fear for your sanity, but wish you all the best.

I even watched Skull's 43min review of Interstellar last week where he describes it as a "must see movie for those who feel like they were born 40 years too early or too late."

I kind of love him, just as long as I pretend that he's not real and more of a Garth Marenghi character.

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I can't believe Capwn watched the whole 1 hour and ten minutes. Well played.

I watched it, but must've fallen into a stupor as I couldn't begin to tell you what it was about

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Someone on Reddit broke it down;

I've outlined what I think are key points and interesting titbits but I've left a lot out cause... well it's an hour long video. it's worth a watch if for no other reason than to accompany popcorn.

  • Starting off. The video's aspect ratio is off. It's that thing where it doesn't fill the whole screen and is a video inside a black box

  • The first 5 or so minutes have a lot of weird edits in it. Odd for Jordan who usually doesn't really edit his videos all that much to have such heavy editing.

  • Onto the actual content. Jordan says that this is the first time he's seen any of that edit. (referring to the edit Aurini released)

  • He says that the private investigator they were going to hire was to investigate the San Francisco incident where Anita had to leave her house. (Aurini had stated that the investigator was going to be hired to find people that grew up with Anita) Jordan also says that the two investigators he'd found were supposed to go on camera and testify that it's highly unusual for the police to erase a case or call from their database

  • Jordan says that Aurini's cycle of behaviour has been to agree to an idea or deadline, drop communication for several days, then return and act as though nothing had been discussed. Jordan cites this as a reason why the trailer was so late and why it looked shitty.

  • Jordan breaks down the numbers for the cost of the DC trip and says most of the money was wasted on Aurini insisting on road tripping instead of flying. He states that Aurini had previously agreed to all expenditures regarding hotels and didn't complain about it until Jordan said that they were down to the wire with money

  • Jordan says that Aurini wasn't originally supposed to be on the DC trip but that Aurini had insisted. He says that the extra money spent on this is what caused them to go back to Patreon and ask for more money.

  • He states that Aurini's reason for driving instead of flying is bullshit because they had previously flown with their camera equipment.

  • Jordan calls Aurini a conman and that he doesn't know fuck all about film making

  • Jordan says that he had to keep remind Aurini about white-balancing and slating

  • Jordan spends a good five minutes explaining slating and that Aurini kept fucking up the slating

  • Jordan denies being taken over by SJWs and that Dan Olson is not helping him finish the movie

  • He says the intention of the second DC trip was to get two very important interviews and that because of Aurini they didn't get either of them, thus the trip was a complete waste

  • Jordan proceeds to explain why the email Aurini has published is not a legally binding contract and explained that even if it was Aurini is in violation of it.

  • Jordan reads out a bunch of emails between him and Aurini where Jordan lays out financials, asks Aurini for updates, and discusses the structure of the doc and then Aurini either deflects the conversation or attacks Jordan. This takes up a good chunk of the video and there is too much to explain to get the true context without just transcribing it.

  • During the readings of the emails he reveals that the mediator has been receiving money contrary to what Aurini says and reiterates that Aurini refused to ever show him any actual edited content

  • He reveals the mediator was originally helping him prepare to sue Aurini but then the mediator suggested they try to work things out after a meeting with Aurini and Jordan ask him to stay on as mediator

  • He says that Aurini was continually asking their animator for multitudes of changes

  • Jordan reveals that Aurini originally wanted to structure the doc as a buddy comedy and wanted Him and Jordan to be characters in the doc which he continually pushed for and says this is the reason why they were framed into the interviews.

  • Jordan changes SD cards and once back the camera is actually white balanced properly and he says that accidentally white balance the camera while changing the card. (LOL)

  • Jordan says he firmly believes that the rough cut Aurini put out was pulled out of Aurini's ass and done in a couple weeks to maybe a month (I agree, it looks like only a couple weeks worth of work) and once again reiterates that Aurini never showed him any edits at all.

  • Jordan says that advice from Aurini "is like being handed a plate of dog-shit and being yelled at that you should consider it a 4-star meal"

  • Jordan calls Aurini a conman again and explains one of the examples of why he is.

  • Jordan reads emails where Aurini demands that Jordan complete the score for the movie and Jordan spends 6 minutes explaining why that's stupid, because in order to do the score you need to have the final cut of the movie finished (his explanation is correct)

  • Jordan explains at that point he was tired of letting the backers down and dealing with Aurini that he decided to take things into his own

  • Jordan reads out a text convo between him and the mediator where they discuss that Aurini did the fundraiser without Jordan or the mediator's approval

  • Jordan re-emphasizing that Aurini is a conman and is trying to con people out of money

  • Jordan ends the video by saying he's going to let Aurini dictate each step of this now. Implying that the more bullshit Aurini says the more info Jordan is going to release.

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I can't believe the fact that gamergate is largely angry people herding the vulnerable is a new lesson. That's all it's ever been.

Indeed. It is frustrating when you see journalists consciously or not buying into the rhetoric and language of it though. Like the recent Totilo / Vavra thing.

Anyway, I came in here to post a video which covers all this again, but in a well-presented, self-contained way. Good primer for people who haven't followed the whole sad episode:

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Ok, I've got an hour-ish to kill while I'm waiting for someone to get back to me, fuck it, I'm going to watch the rough draft and make notes about it. I've seen people do so already, mostly from people who were more technically minded about the production aspects, so it probably wont tear into the shitty framing/sound/etc unless its really obvious. WISH ME LUCK!!!

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d2KkuhP.png

It totally IS Davis though isn't it? Here is that bit;

https://youtu.be/T6AibgptNxc?t=35m33s

edit : haha just watched the whole part with Jack Thompson again. Most of the interview is clearly just Jack wanting to go over his past and explain how he was misunderstood and want he was attempting to do. Then you get Jordan abruptly saying something likely "Well this brings us nicely to the topic at hand" then you get these 3 clearly cut parts of him just saying 'Yeah she free in her opinions of this and has no evidence. CUT Yeah she just uses harassment to get what she wants CUT and that's it.

edit 2 : Just directed those links to Jordan in his youtube video comments and asked him! lol

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Yeah from the first time I saw footage of the Jack Thompson interview I think it was pretty clear he hasn't really got a clue what's going on. He clearly thinks he's there to talk about himself, because Davis and Aurini have roped him in by somehow persuading him that he is relevant to today's debate. Then he finds out he's actually there to talk about some feminist woman, and he doesn't really like feminists, so he's happy enough to vaguely agree with them that she's probably up to no good.

The recent stuff about hiring private investigators has been hilarious. Remember how right at the start they were promising that there was going to be earth-shattering revelations and terrible secrets would be brought to light through the power of investigative journalism? They've clearly admitting to us all now that was all bullshit. The penny's dropped that all they've actually got is a few nobodies on camera saying that they don't really like Anita Sarkeesian or what she has to say. Which is a long way from the expose they promised. I mean, clearly we have all known it was bullshit from the start - but by now saying that they need private investigators to actually get anything of interest, they're admitting it to themselves and their audience too.

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Anyway, I came in here to post a video which covers all this again, but in a well-presented, self-contained way. Good primer for people who haven't followed the whole sad episode:

The final part of this six episode series has been published and I can't recommended it highly enough.

It's not just about Gamergate, it's about the psychology behind otherwise normal people getting involved in extreme, reactionary politics and harassment.

It's eloquently argued and highly informative. It ends on a really great positive note as well.

Here's part one. I'd advice watching it in order (it'll take about an hour in total).

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Yeah, really impressive and seems spot on - a lot of the behaviour described, where people are willing to cover for the core misogynists or white supremacists, but then say they don't condone them at the same time as refusing to condemn the harassment because actually they're kind of for targeting those people has been seen in this thread from a few ex-members and seemed utterly baffling at the time.

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In my continued search of understanding gamergate I came across a response to that series;

I also came across a video this week that is almost 12 hours

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Exclusionary Geek Culture Misunderstands Diversity on a Fundamental Level

There seems to be this mentality that if the gaming community changes (that is, if it changes to acknowledge how diverse it’s actually always been) it will cease to be a space of belonging for those who have always belonged in it. To people who made it through the gate—to people who fashioned the gate in the first place—gatekeeping is vital to the maintenance of their identity and their specialness.

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In my continued search of understanding gamergate I came across a response to that series;

I made it to the bit where reviewers are apparently saying "It's an okay game but I'm going to score it shit because it doesn't have a woman in it".

FemaleIllinformedHanumanmonkey.gif

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I got to the bit that suggests game developers are now putting in women just for the sake of pleasing feminists (and feminist reviewers) which is of course making their games worse and was not happening at all in the 90's or 00's. They clearly didn't see or remember Anita's critique of smurfettes (token women) in games episode.

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So Randi Harper (creator of the Block Bot thing for twitter) was speaking at the Open Source Conference (OSCON) in Portland. Obviously GamerGate decided to flood the #OSCON hashtag on twitter and send message after message to OSCON account to try and get them to cancel Harper's appearance (a lot of this seemed to involve sending Breitbart articles to them, under the misapprehension that people in the real world take that website seriously).

So OSCON did the obvious thing and used the block bot to ignore all these people which then sent them, led by world-renowned genius Mark Kern, into their usual meltdown at being ignored. The OSCON guy (Tim O'Reilly) admitted that using a block bot wasn't the ideal situation, but under the circumstances- of a con already taking place and people wanting to use the hashtag to actually talk about it rather than protest it- it was probably the quickest and easiest.

Thing is, if you've ever run an event or anything, most of your time on the actual day is taken up with dealing with hundreds of different little problems and issues that crop up. The last thing you need is a few hundred people trying to deluge you with the same shitty links and 'evidence' which, even if you were inclined to listen to, you have absolutely no time to do so at that moment.

As usual GamerGate protesting something just ended up validating the very thing they were protesting about, like some crazed vicious circle. The threads on 8Chan and KiA were all about disrupting the tag, which is exactly what they did, I'm not sure what they expected to happen as a result. It's the same results every time. And Mark Kern had his usual slippery grip on reality,...

It's a civil protest!

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It's your own fault! Also I've been protesting the tag for over 24 hours now..!

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Thing is, if they really had an issue with Harper speaking then they had weeks and weeks to protest about it. There's no point screaming and wailing when the event is actually on. All they're going do is disrupt it, which will lead to... well, exactly what it's lead to. People whining about being blocked then being blocked for whining.

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Anyone come across this?

http://www.bulimia.com/examine/video-games-realistic-body-types/

GG are getting on it, reading it as "All women in games should be like this!", inc people on my facebook. I summed up my thoughts and replied;

"Context. This article/exploration is for a website about eating disorders which is why they just added weight gain to all characters. It then got picked up by the likes of Polygon and suddenly it was being read as 'All women in games should be looking like this'. I don't think anyone really wants every women to suddenly be a specific build. Personally I just want to see a healthy mix of body types that reflects the real world. Anorexic, skinny, toned, muscular, bodybuilder, average, plus sized, heavy and obese etc"

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GG are getting on it, reading it as "All women in games should be like this!"

GamerGate wouldn't exist if an entire subclass of the human race didn't have this same repeated lack of basic understanding.

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Worth noting: not a gaming event, not a journalism event.

Literally just targeting people in everything they do.

Yeah, they're nuts. Even worse they'd already complained to OSCON who had already read and then discarded their complaints, so this is pretty much a massive tantrum to try and disrupt things as much as possible and make sure future conferences don't hire Harper because they'll have seen what a massive noise GG makes about these things. It's basically "do what we say or we'll massively harass you" and then they get all sensitive and upset when people point out to them that, you know... that's kind of harassment in itself.

It's possible the OSCON guy fucked up a bit by using the auto-blocker (I think blocking people for who they follow is massively flawed anyway as it equates 'following' with 'condoning' which is totally different) but I can't blame someone for reaching for any available tools during a conference to try and shut down the wave of irrelevant whining and complaining coming their way.

WHY THIS MATTERS: This is by far the biggest venue Randi has ever appeared in and the deception that she and the conference organizers are engaged in is shameful. If enough of us post evidence of who Randi really is to the #OSCON tag, there's a very good chance that future conference organizers (and their sponsors) will think twice before embarrassing themselves by giving Randi a platform.

DETAILS: Although #OSCON was notified of Randi's antics when news of her speaking engagement became public last month, they chose to ignore the evidence, instead of taking seriously their obligation to their attendee's well-being. Adding insult to injury, a statement by @joshsimmons dismissed those who had raised concerns as "trolls":

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Good luck with sharing it. I got some comments back on it;

"Omg, many of these just went from fit to obese... :-S seeing skinier people is a motivation for me to get fit, if we accept this as normal, we'll all be ball-shaped by 2023...."

"Bah fuck this BS article. I go to the gym every day and folks this fit are real. Games are obviously going to depict the ideal. Its something to aim for after all. Or should we all be happy that we are overweight and dont work out sitting in front of our pc's and facebook all day?"

"I like the disclaimers below the pictures admitting they stole them all."

" In many of these cases the character is a professional fighter or have a very active lifestyle. Those "remakes" are close to flabby which may be the norm of the average body type, but not for the type of character that is portrayed. This article acts as if being in shape is unrealistic. And their average measurement was taken from American women, one of the most overweight countries in the world.

Maybe they should clarify that anybody could have one of these "idealized" bodies if they work hard for it (starving yourself does not work). Or should we ban fitness competitions, bodybuilding etc because it makes inactive people feel bad?"

"These articles are retarded and tiresome as hell... context matters, the people that make these are clickbaiting hipsters that just googled a bunch of game characters without knowing a single thing about them, photoshop them fat, and wanna call that realistic... what's next? photoshoping Olympic swimmers and sprinters fat so that the dumpy average american doesn't get their feels hurt? fak that! pretty much all the game characters used are athletes, top of their field, active, and most of all FICTIONAL!

There's similar articles making Wonder Woman fat and shit like that... fak that too! Wonder Woman and other super heroes, male and female are modern mythology, aspirational figures equivalent to Greek Gods. Make one of these dumpy hipsters run around actively like a super hero or athlete for a year and they might stop being so dumpy and "average" or "realistic" as they wanna twist the terms. It's shitty that our modern lifestyles are so sedentary, and it's hard to get enough exercise, but normalizing obesity and the heart disease, diabetes, and other side effects that comes with it is no solution."

"And Cortana from Halo 4 is actualy a healthy weight sheesh!"

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