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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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10 hours ago, Mentazm said:

I've said since hearing him on JRE he's a liar and a self-promoter who simply holds these "beliefs" to get attention and money.

Yeah, he was a two bit drama chaser even before he hitched his wagon to Gamergate. Breitbart in general is pretty much the same, expect them to pivot around to mercilessly pillorying the Gamergate crowd as soon as they can find a reason to (say, they want to legitimise themselves by distancing themselves from internet lunatics).

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  • 1 month later...
On 01/12/2016 at 20:06, rafaqat said:


You said it was shamefully ignorant.  So I'm ignorant and should be ashamed?   You can't pick up a post and say it's one of the shamefully ignorant ones and then act all surprised that the person you're having the discussion with decides to not bother if you're going to respond to someone like that.


If you want a discussion then you might want to not be so insulting. Would you continue posting if I started off referring to your posts as "shamefully ignorant"?



You said women "should just compete on a level playing field", without being able to recognise that it's not possible. You pay lip service to us "all wanting the same thing" but your tone and attitude make it clear that you don't see it as a real problem, just an idle bit of discussion. If you're not interested in actually discussing solutions for major societal problems then people will think you're ignorant when you post your half baked ideas.


It's very easy to take a laid back approach and ask everyone to be nice and polite when your discussion of the issue is only theoretical, but it's completely unfair of you to expect people who are directly affected by this to take your attitude and discuss it with you in a nice way that you find acceptable. You posted something ignorant so someone called you ignorant, if you can't handle that stick to discussions with no actual depth.

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  • 3 weeks later...

A while back there was a release of information about the FBI's investigation into Gamergate (with the names of the accused and other details redacted. I downloaded and had a bit of a read but it was messy and depressing.


Business Insider had a go at it and it's pretty much the result we suspected. No charges pending even when some people confessed to the harrassment with "it was just a joke" or "I did it for the lols" seen as reasonable reasons not to lay charges.






The FBI's "Gamergate" file identified at least four men the agency believed were responsible for sending dozens of death and rape threats to women who criticised video games.

The day before Halloween, FBI agents showed up at the home of a Massachusetts man linked to dozens of rape, bomb, and death threats targeting women involved in the video game scene. They believed he was a supporter of Gamergate, the militant online movement that wants to end feminist criticism of video games.

The man, whose name was kept confidential by the FBI, confessed: He told the agents that he was a "tech guy," a qualified A++ coder, who played video games a lot and lived with his parents, according to a set of documents the FBI released on its investigation into Gamergate.

He told the agents that he hung out on 4chan.. He admitted that he had mocked the women who were targets of Gamergate threats on 4chan, calling one of them "a professional victim who exaggerated the threats."

Then the agents showed him one of those threatening emails. The man said he had created a new email account specifically for the purpose of sending threats to Gamergate targets. He "admitted to sending the threatening email," the FBI wrote in its report, and he "understood the email 'looked really bad.'" Crucially, he also confessed that he knew it was a crime: The man "understood that it was a federal crime to send a threatening communication to anyone and will never do it again," the FBI wrote.

Yet despite all that — an email trail, a confession, and an admission from the suspect that he knew he was breaking the law — the FBI let him go after the suspect said it was a "joke"



Summing up



The FBI file makes depressing reading for critics of Gamergate. It is heavily redacted, so we don't know why prosecutors did not pursue any of the cases. The file also indicates that agents may have been out of their depth when it comes to some aspects of computer forensics — one agent repeatedly spells Twitter as "Tweeter." And as the memo above indicates, the FBI felt it was unable to get through a proxy server chain to identify a user.

That will come as some comfort to Gamergate supporters, who believe that all they were doing was trolling feminists who should not take it so seriously.

But the victims can take some comfort too. 

The feds did track down at least four men who sent threats, and they now know the identities of several men believed to have had leading roles in organising Gamergate threats. Twitter, Google, and Microsoft all cooperated in the investigation, and subpoena warrants were served by a grand jury. This was taken seriously by the FBI, even if nothing ultimately came of it.



The rest makes depressing reading.

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Oh look Milo, it turns out that just throwing your horrible opinions out and not giving a shit how offensive they are does have repercussions after all ...




edit: posted this without realising there is 7 pages about it in OT already. 


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I thought the most recent Tropes video was a bit dull unfortunately; as usual, the examples she gives at the start are mind-bendingly creepy and inappropriate. I knew RE5 was pretty racist, but the clips from Far Cry 3 were off the scale.


The second half though - I found it a bit dry and academic. I guess that's her approach, but a lot of the older videos had a better balance between theory and criticism. 

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On 22/02/2017 at 08:38, geekette said:

But the most notable thing is that the viewer numbers have really tailed off. The one good thing about all the furore that coincided with the launch of the tropes series was that the videos were getting seen by huge numbers of people. For example, 2.7 million people have watched the damsel in distress part one episode and about a million each of the first few tropes. But the more recent additions to the series are clocking only about a tenth of those figures. Maybe the general message has hit home, so the detailed examples are not as groundbreaking. Or maybe it is more accepted and less controversial, which could only be a good thing. But I suspect there is still a lot of work to be done, so it is a bit sad to see the diminishing returns.


I think it's something to do with reaching a saturation point. The first few videos were a bit of an eye-opener, as they took a look at stuff we've been taking for granted and approached it from another angle that made sense. However, this latest video is basically more of the same but from a more niche angle ("we did feminism, now let's add racism!"), and I find it's also lost its loose, almost casual tone a bit. Where the first videos clearly stated that 'while some things may be problematic, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy the games' or something like that, this latest video is just 10 minutes of preaching about how there should be no place for stuff like this in the 21st century with so many PC buzzwords in there that it seems to be aimed at those already converted rather than informing people who are new to these subjects. I found most of the original videos thought provoking, this much less so.



Edited by Napole0n
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I tend to be less enthused about watching Anita's videos now because it means that google/youtube decides for months afterwards that I really want recommendations of MRA and alt-right responses to her work in th the hundreds.


Also I feel like some of the recent videos are repeating what previous videos have in more depth. (In short what Nap' said.)


Some of the discussion about the over-sexualisation of women of colour was a bit eye opening, I hadn't really absorbed that from US culture seen through a local lens. Horrifically enough the way Austalians have viewed indigenous women was worse than the US.


Also Alex Vance as a recent positive example for the industry....that was 11 years ago now!

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  • 1 month later...

Is this cover a good indication of where the industry is right now when it comes to representation of people in AAA games? There has clearly been a focus over the last few years to represent more types of people in games other than tough white dudes which is cool and a sign of progression BUT the tough white dude will get the focus just about every time. 





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