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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


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Bloody hell, stuff like this shows it's not the thread that's up its own arse.

 

All I was pointing out was that Clippa's understanding of Ramone's "humour" might just be coloured by the fact that he's a male and I wanted him to look at it from another perspective. Y'all just like playing Devil's advocate. 

Maybe I wasn't being entirely serious either.

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13 minutes ago, Napole0n said:

I don't know, I've been taught not to think about women as a homogeneous group but as individuals with different opinions and responses to various situations.

Oh great, it's the "I see everyone as individuals" defense used to shut down any discussion of difficulties experienced my oppressed groups.

 

Could you do the "they say race doesn't exist and is just a social construct, but then claim they're being discriminated on based on race" one next. If I can stamp them all off on my card, I get a free drink at the ACLU coffee shop.

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2 minutes ago, Napole0n said:

Christ, it really is Victimhood Friday in here.

 

Take it easy people, the weekend is almost here. Turn that frown upside-down.

What's the matter, snowflake, feeling pangs of emotion for once?  Being challenged on established beliefs can be quite tricky!

 

I'm quite jovial actually, finishing work half day today.   And the sun is out!

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2 hours ago, joe bazooka said:

Thing is a woman isn't going to rescue a man from underground. That's not a trope, it's a fact. Never has a woman rescued a man from underground. She's not strong enough to hold a rope with a person on it.

 

Women rarely rescue men in any scenario. A woman has foolishly driven into a river! Oh I can imagine another woman jumping in to rescue her.

 

Problem with this whole thing is it's a case of women (and men) asking for men to solve their problems for them.

 

Hey men! Please depict us women in a better light! It's pathetic. I said it before but women and men started out at the same time. Must be a reason men shaped society. Men in every culture.

 

Woman, make games and portray yourself as you wish. What's that? Nobody would buy them? Because really women, all women, just want to be held in the arms of a strong man? 

 

 

 

Seriously, if I started acting like this much of an unfunny cunt in the depression, or parenting threads I'd get banned. When I say one naughty word I get banned. But troll the one feminism topic as much as you want, because these aren't real issues.

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4 minutes ago, Shoes said:

 and loads of people pile on about it being an echochamber or a safe space or that men who post here are virtue signalling SJWs.

 

I've told you a million times not to exagerrate.

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1 hour ago, Napole0n said:

I don't know, I've been taught not to think about women as a homogeneous group but as individuals with different opinions and responses to various situations.

 

You can't have had a very good teacher.

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1 hour ago, Gizamaluke said:

Broker you know he got banned right?

 

I did not but I'm fucking glad. Him and NEG are the only people here who deserve permabans, I don't care how offensive people ideas are it's stifling discussion I find unbearable. Either through stupidity/trolling like NEG, or through incessant bullying like Ramone.

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2 hours ago, Napole0n said:

So ramone got banned? A little too much noise in the echo chamber? ffs

 

2 hours ago, PeteBrant said:

 

Properly ridiculous ban

 

Why? You think Ramone is serious and not trolling? Do you think that about all his posts, or does the poster who famously trolls and never breaks character decide just to be sincere in this thread?

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Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 part discussion from 2015.

 

Edit: I do hope some actually give this a listen. You can continue demanding less Peach kidnapping, and similar demands, afterwards. :rolleyes:

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21 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

Why? You think Ramone is serious and not trolling? Do you think that about all his posts, or does the poster who famously trolls and never breaks character decide just to be sincere in this thread?

Of course ramone is trolling, but a ban seems disproportionate.

 

16 minutes ago, geekette said:

I've started to recognise that these are the attack-as-defense responses of people who feel threatened and baked into a corner

That's my plan for tonight, with Jeff Minter on PSVR!

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7 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

 

Don't see how. "Trolling" is a key problem around a lot of the issues we are discussing here. Whenever people have been engaging in the sort of gamergate/anti-feminist online activity that is a massive part of this issue around women in games, their first line of defence is often "I am just trolling" or "its just about the lulz" or "I am a shitposting edgelord!!!". Most people with a brain can, I think, see that this sort of behaviour has the exact same effect as the sincere outright sexism/abusiveness from the "sincere" elements of Gamergate/anti-feminists out there, and is just as much a part of the problem. 

From a rllmuk specific point of view I think there's long been an established principle that with serious-issue threads, trolling is inappropriate and can lead to moderator action. 

 

Your post makes it seem like you think Ramone has been punished for his opinion rather than been punished for taking the piss out of other people's opinions while failing to actually provide anything sincere to counter them, which is actually the case. 

 

It is not outside Rllmuk nature to be jokey. His matter of factly-ness is what deserved negging/reporting. But if he also believed those things, it would be worth debating with him, rather then silencing.

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3 minutes ago, Napole0n said:

Ramone's been part of the furniture here for almost 15 years, he does what he does and everybody knows it and recognises it. Don't make it bigger than it is.

 

20 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

From a rllmuk specific point of view I think there's long been an established principle that with serious-issue threads, trolling is inappropriate and can lead to moderator action. 

 

Correct. If any of you have concerns or feedback about Ramone's ban in this thread, then please feel free to take it up via A&F.

 

With that out of the way, if we can all return to the topic at hand then that would be awesome.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, NEG said:

 

 But if he also believed those things, it would be worth debating with him, rather then silencing.

Of course, and as you clearly can see yourself, plenty of people here are more than willing to debate those with opposing views. 

It is frustrating to see this conversation described as an "echo chamber" or implications made that people are not willing to listen to dissenting voices, when everyone from yourself, to Rockstarjez, to Toonfool, to anyone else who has come here and been critical of Anita Sarkeesian, or attempts to make gaming more inclusive in general, have received plenty of reasoned debate. 

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1 minute ago, Anne Summers said:

It is frustrating to see this conversation described as an "echo chamber" 

 

I fear you left out "safe space" and "up its own arse". Has anyone described the thread as a castle of white knights yet? 

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Go to a Gamergate forum like KIA and make a post called "Actually I think Anita Sarkeesian may have a bit of a point, and some games are unnecessarily sexist, and maybe a little bit of thought into making them more inclusive to women isn't a terrible idea" if you want to see what an echo chamber looks like. 

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27 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

 have received plenty of reasoned debate. 

 

Once every blood moon, when hair isn't being ripped out, yes, it has. I understand the 'real' echo chamber example you just posted, but much like how Rllmuk is mostly left leaning, there's always going to be head bashing when its a 80/20 split sort of thing. I wouldn't put myself in the 20 category, but just debating or stating thoughts on some things I may think differently on from a week ago caused interrogations, assumptions and more people putting me on ignore yesterday, simply for trying to have a reasoned debate.

 

I can understand it being frustrating, but some individuals make Rllmuk not too far off your echo chamber examples at times. Broker is still pushing the viewpoint today. Whilst Geekette still carries on talking about agendas and putting people into groups she can easily define as terrible to the rest of you.

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