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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


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Phew. I thought so, but I'm sometimes so out of touch with these things and what seems like irony turns out not to be... I just wanted to make sure.

In the same vein:

http://fakenerdguys.tumblr.com/

''It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man who identifies as a nerd/geek/gamer must be in want of female attention. This blog exposes fake nerd guys for the casual shams they are.''

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It is sleazy and worthy of consequences from his employer if it was in a work role, but I'm not sure facebook chats are in that domain. I don't mean to be flippant about it, but women get these kind of lines often, regardless of whether they are connected to gaming or not. I bet every woman on here has had unwanted sexual approaches at some time in the last year. I'm not saying word for word or quite as explicit, but its much more normative than the response gives credit for. And I think adding someone to facebook and telling someone about your divorce implies a slightly more personal relationship or an interest in one. Its not like linkedin that is purely professional and a chat-up line would be out of context. Conversations like this happen on facebook all the time.

I still think it is an ill-judged chat-up attempt and not misogyny or specific to the gaming industry. I could equally imagine that being someone met through work in any other industry. As I say, if it is unwelcome she should say so and/or remove him from her facebook. If it is part of her job to deal with people then she needs to learn how to say "thanks but no thanks" in some form or another. I can't see that she was so shackled by the risk of repercussions that she couldn't say anything.

Really it should work both ways, theres an element of her/women needing to shut that interaction down and the side of the conversation taking place shouldn't be happening, not the kind of language he's using anyway, there's flirting and then there's that.

Although I also question the validity of the claim their relationship was "a couple of meetings at trade shows" when she seems to have openly discussed getting divorced and career prospects with him

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I imagine the market for interactive 3D hentai is quite niche.

It's not interactive 3D hentai, it's an action game that's plastered with ecchi and pandering because that's what's required to service the very particular needs of super devout fan clusters who've proven themselves willing to buy the games and merchandise and figurines and whatever required to keep everything solvent. Like this PS4 game (borderline NSFW)

http://i.imgur.com/xG9e5aZ.jpg

See also, the numerous series focused on rousing warm, paternalistic feelings in the male viewer through the endearing depiction of young girls (moe).

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It is sleazy and worthy of consequences from his employer if it was in a work role, but I'm not sure Facebook chats are in that domain.

I would have thought that sending graphic sexual advances to a client through any medium would be a disciplinary offence in most industries.

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Mattingly's apology is a classic non-apology:

There has been a recent situation that I regretfully put myself into involving a woman who I consider a friend in the industry. I want to take a moment to sincerely apologize for the way I acted and the words that were exchanged. I am mortified by my behavior as it was not only completely inappropriate, but it was fueled by alcohol and depression. My younger brother committed suicide last year and ever since then I haven’t been myself. A tragedy like that is something I hope no one has to endure. Even though I’m aware that alcoholism runs in my family, I have been using it to cope with the pain that I feel every day. It’s compounded my depression and clearly clouded my common sense and dignity.

Contrary to what I drunkenly typed, I have nothing but respect for this person. She has always been a positive ray of sunshine and I got very carried away in a conversation that I never should have started. Just because someone is nice to me doesn’t mean I can act inappropriately or say whatever I want to them. Especially since I have been such an advocate of women in games and treating everyone with the same level of respect and decency. I was a complete hypocrite and I am more mad at myself than anyone else will ever be with me. Since the other night, I have taken the steps to get into therapy to deal with the loss of my brother as well as regular AA meetings to deal with my self destruction.

I want to be perfectly clear, I’m not using my brother as a scapegoat to give me cart blanche or excuse my behavior. I know that women in the industry have to deal with these sorts of things every day and I hate myself for adding to it. What I did was completely wrong and something that I, myself, take responsibility for. I only bring up my own depression and loss to try to find the root of my poor choices.

Once again, I am terribly sorry. All I’ve ever wanted to be is a positive influence and I let my metal health and alcohol abuse get the best of me.

-Josh

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I think it's the novelty of your perspective that makes it shocking, like the experience reported on Reddit by the guy who signed up as a girl on a dating site.

Well, no, I'm fully aware that people send messages like that on a regular basis, that doesn't make it acceptable though

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Mattingly's apology is a classic non-apology:

No, it is an apology. Note the overwhelmingly apologetic language and the word sorry, hypocrite, mortified, inappropriate etc. Perhaps you need to read it again?

Just because he tries to explain his behaviour doesn't mean it's not an apology, for fuck's sake. It's not like there isn't a preponderance of alcohol abuse in our societies or as if getting drunk and acting like an ass is a new concept.

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The guy was out of order, however I keep seeing people state this when in reality the PR and Community Managers are the ones who hold all the cards (in my experience), IndieStatik may be one of the larger Indie Gaming sites but they're still having to post upto date coverage of stuff and he was hankering after a scoop, there'll also be other games that she is the representative for that he would have to communicate with and not always just for one company, some companies outsource their PR and Community Managers to specific firms who handle various contracts, these people can easily remove problematic sites from their Mailing Lists and refuse to provide content leaving the "Journalist" in a position where he has to source the information from other websites.

Again, I'm not condoning his behaviour, but certain elements are trying twisting how specific elements of the industry work. Websites do the chasing, PR/Community hold the cards in regards to relationships between studio's and publishers.

To put another spin on it, I'd rather have content on my own website that is stuff I'm genuinely passionate or enthusiastic about, but I realise in order to strike up a relationship that allows me to cover those titles satisfactorily I also have to cover shit that doesn't interest me in order to stay on the side of the publisher or developers representative.

It really depends who you are, as a small developer you can't afford to blacklist or burn bridges with press - in that relationship the press do hold most of the cards. Bigger developers and publishers do of course have the power to not communicate with any parts of the press they chose and it won't really affect them, but as a smaller dev most press ignore you so you need to have anyone on side.

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It is sleazy and worthy of consequences from his employer if it was in a work role, but I'm not sure Facebook chats are in that domain. I don't mean to be flippant about it, but women get these kind of lines often, regardless of whether they are connected to gaming or not. I bet every woman on here has had unwanted sexual approaches at some time in the last year. I'm not saying word for word or quite as explicit, but its much more normative than the response gives credit for. And I think adding someone to facebook and telling someone about your divorce implies a slightly more personal relationship or an interest in one. Its not like linkedin that is purely professional and a chat-up line would be out of context. Conversations like this happen on facebook all the time.

I still think it is an ill-judged chat-up attempt and not misogyny or specific to the gaming industry. I could equally imagine that being someone met through work in any other industry. As I say, if it is unwelcome she should say so and/or remove him from her facebook. If it is part of her job to deal with people then she needs to learn how to say "thanks but no thanks" in some form or another. I can't see that she was so shackled by the risk of repercussions that she couldn't say anything.

I'm not sure that the fact that behaviour like this is commonplace is a great defence for the behaviour. I mean, suffering insults is common for people who defy gender norms (whether through defining themselves by a different sex to that born with, being openly gay, or simply dressing/styling themselves in a way non-standard for their sex) but that doesn't excuse that behaviour either. Certainly there are worse things he could have done, and it would have been good for the recipient to assert her discomfort, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

As you mention in a later post, it's only surprising us (men) because we aren't usually exposed to this behaviour - so perhaps it's actually a good thing that we are being exposed to it, and so are able to see the kind of crap that comes from the mouths/typing hands of other men. At least by publicising it and criticising it it may help encourage some men to think more about how they speak to others, and may help shift a little the idea of what is acceptable behaviour.

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I'm not sure that the fact that behaviour like this is commonplace is a great defence for the behaviour.

She's clearly not making a defence of the behaviour, though. She's saying it's not some new behaviour that's the product of 'gaming culture'.

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It really depends who you are, as a small developer you can't afford to blacklist or burn bridges with press - in that relationship the press do hold most of the cards. Bigger developers and publishers do of course have the power to not communicate with any parts of the press they chose and it won't really affect them, but as a smaller dev most press ignore you so you need to have anyone on side.

Maybe, but theres so many websites out there fighting for coverage that she's still in a professional position to not stand for treatment such as that, as it is shes now used a third-party to shame him, which whilst I doubt it would have happened, could have burned more bridges than an initial shut down of hi behaviour would have achieved.

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Also, I think, that it's not necessarily indicative of 'misogyny'.

I mean, if I talk sleazily (when blind drunk) to men is it proof that I hate men?

As per RJ above, I never tried to suggest it was misogynistic, just disrespectful, scuzzy behaviour. He's since apologised (and I believe it to be sincere), and I can accept that, and has mentioned it was alcohol- and depression-fuelled, which I can understand, but it doesn't stop the initial behaviour from having been inappropriate and worthy of condemnation.

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The only mention of misogyny after this was brought up was someone saying it wasn't misogyny? You're not really disagreeing with anyone here.

I am addressing what I perceive to be an occasionally unspoken background assumption of misogyny or the patriarchy - the same assumption that Geekette seems to be talking about.

Also RJ I do adore how you've taken it upon yourself to never respond to me unless you feel you can disagree with what I've said.

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Also, I think, that it's not necessarily indicative of 'misogyny'.

I mean, if I talk sleazily (when blind drunk) to men is it proof that I hate men?

Well no, but I wonder if he sent drunk messages to other devs all like, lemme peep that dick maaan. No? Ah.
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Well no, but I wonder if he sent drunk messages to other devs all like, lemme peep that dick maaan. No? Ah.

Shit, I wonder why a hetrosexual man wouldn't send other men sexually explicit come-ons? I'm wracking my brain here but I can't really come up with anything so you're probably right.

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I am addressing what I perceive to be an occasionally unspoken background assumption of misogyny or the patriarchy - the same assumption that Geekette seems to be talking about.

Annnnnd boom:

But he was drunk! It's ok, I hate when my alcoholism brings out my misogyny too :(

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