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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


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I had hoped his lunacy was confined to believing that the Xbone was more popular with Rllmuk than the PS4 but it seems his malady is getting worse. Too much protein in his eggs.

Another one ticked off! That was on a different card though, so it doesn't really count. I'm only doing Chadruharazzeb's moronic views on sexism on this one.

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That's a huge leap of imagination. I can't imagine any man complaining about being told to back off in that context, or any boss thinking that telling someone who is being that sexually explicit to back off is inappropriate. And its Facebook, not via her work email. Its a personal comment, not one on behalf of the company.

I think you're being incredibly naive, or have no experience with a job that gives you no personal comment. This delineation between work and not work you're drawing doesn't exist especially not in things like games, look at the personal comments that get plucked off social media and get reported as Person X of Company Y says or Company Y believes. I've spoken to press over company email, over Facebook & twitter messages, over IMs, does only one of them count as work related? It's not the method of communication but the people involved: he's press and she's a dev, they know each other because of work, he contacts her under the guise of work. One thing you learn very quickly is always treat everything as on the record, I know far too many people that have been burnt by journalists saying things were off the record then using them.

In an ideal world there are no repercussions for her telling him to fuck off, but I doubt that would be the case. Maybe there's no repercussions from the press but if her name's attached to it then it becomes can she handle awkward situations, can she be trusted, etc. Also maybe she's just someone who doesn't like confrontation and hoped by not engaging directly and sticking to answering the game related stuff he'd drop it?

And go look up Dirty Talk Dating a series of YouTube videos by the guy involved here about how to pickup women like this. It casts things in a slightly different light, rather than a one off thing it starts looking like his standard technique which he's now been called on.

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On the subject of the dirty facebook chat, isn't the sad fact that the slightest mention of anything relating to your personal life is a green light for some guy to solicit sex from you (while telling you how your clitoris works- talk about mansplaining) exactly the fucking problem that TAWIVG is a part of?

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Spoken like a true pimp.

Sexualised depiction of men in videogames? Really? I mean men are rarely represented as anything other than psychopaths or murderers in games but they're not really very sexy are they? Dante notwithstanding, obviously.

No one is explaining this, so - men in games (especially protagonists) are frequently represented as a powerful, multitalented arse kicker with a sideline in witty repartee. They're assured, in control, they're usually a pretty close representation of rugged Western handsomeness.

Sexualised.

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If she'd told him to back off, she'd get a call in from her boss asking why she's being rude to the public when it's her job as a PR to answer questions nicely and politely. Can't win this one, it's not her behaviour that needs to change, it's his.

Baseless speculation is fun, isn't it?

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No one is explaining this, so - men in games (especially protagonists) are frequently represented as a powerful, multitalented arse kicker with a sideline in witty repartee. They're assured, in control, they're usually a pretty close representation of rugged Western handsomeness.

Sexualised.

I was tempted to, then I imagined that it had been done to death in one or more of the other 90 pages in this topic.

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See I agree with that, I don't think he's a monster I think it's just an incredibly ill judged conversation. According to a a post in Indie Statik he's taking a leave of absence to sort himself out, which is good.

To me in the DTD about technology he comes across as quite creepy in a few place and his female cohost seemed uncomfortable with what he was saying at times (that's how I read it, I accept I may be wrong) especially recounting him finding her phone number in FB and making contact (but it's okay, he only did that to show how a creep could...).

The only thing I disagree on is consequence for the lady involved. I keep coming back to this because, to me, the situation is exploiting a power dynamic (press - dev) but also because all the US based female devs I know say there would be consequences for speaking out/brining it up with their employer - it's either happened to them or someone they know*. And even if there would have been no consequences, that doesn't stop her acting out of the fear of them.

* obviously depends very much on who you work for/with.

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No one is explaining this, so - men in games (especially protagonists) are frequently represented as a powerful, multitalented arse kicker with a sideline in witty repartee. They're assured, in control, they're usually a pretty close representation of rugged Western handsomeness.

Sexualised.

Not really sexualised at all is it? Making the protagonist a "multitalented arse kicker with witty repartee" is because it's more empowering than playing as some useless cowardly doofus (see Lester The Unlikely).

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I don't think anybody is calling the guy a monster. And I don't think that offering penis should form part of any work conversation, much less in the opening few lines. Next thing you know, guys will be making casual offers of company in elevators at conferences.

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No one is explaining this, so - men in games (especially protagonists) are frequently represented as a powerful, multitalented arse kicker with a sideline in witty repartee. They're assured, in control, they're usually a pretty close representation of rugged Western handsomeness.

Sexualised.

no, that's idealised - for the predominantly male players.

male protagonists are idealised depictions of who males want to be. female characters are sexualised - who males want to have sex with.

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no, that's idealised - for the predominantly male players.

male protagonists are idealised depictions of who males want to be. female characters are sexualised - who males want to have sex with.

Probably both count as Idealised. The question is why so many idealised women in games are to make them all sexy? It may be a case where it's just pushed in there because "sex sells".

Out of interest has the tropes series made any attempt to count the number of games and set a definition for this? ie. How many games released, how many of them seem to have sexualised characters, gender split, gender neutral or stuff like that? Would be good to see a breakdown of this per year.

I see on the Kickstarter that the larger contributors get access to some source materials. Does anyone have access to this?

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Round we go again.

Sexualised - generally speaking, men may be handsome or muscly or whatever in games, but they almost always have their own agency. If there's some that don't have agency, they are in the minority and they're more than balanced out by those that do.

Women generally tend to be not only sexualised, but objectified. And objectification is demonstrably harmful. And also so common, insidious and widespread that we don't even blink an eye at it.

If some men in some games (or other media) are also objectified that doesn't make it okay or even the scales. It just makes things even worse.

Video on objectification because I'm guessing the 4 part essay I posted last time this came up is TL;DR

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In a world where freedom to be yourself and have your own opinion is so highly valued its a shame that so many people insist on telling me that it's wrong for me to think naughty thoughts when I look at a woman because she looks sexy.

I like boobs. I can't help it. I wish I didn't, I really do because boobs cause me to do crazy things. If I see a fantastic looking pair on a woman I'm going to be thinking wow, I'd love to have a play with those. The solution to stop me from thinking that about this woman? Have her dress up in a burka or some other outfit that hides her body shape. Is it more acceptable to teach us all that is the correct thing to do to stop people having those thoughts?

Are you people in this thread the kind of people that see a woman depicted in a sexy way on tv and go on about how disgusting it is? Does it make you feel sick the way the poor girl has been portrayed? The way she has obviously been brainwashed into thinking its right and has been pretty much forced to let herself be treated this way? Do none of you watch porn or look at magazines such as Zoo or Nuts? Or FHM? Do none of you go out in an evening and see women that you'd like to take home? Do none of you approach women ever with the desire of finding a mate whilst not for one moment having a physical attraction, do you only approach women because you want companionship and someone to talk to for the rest of your life? If you aren't interested in them sexually then why do you need a partner? Why does it even need to be a woman? Do you only pick the opposite sex because you have the need to produce offspring?

Do you all want our society to be a place where we are ashamed of our thoughts and feeling our natural urges? Much like in the movie Equilibrium perhaps? A place where we all have to dress in grey and hide our emotions and thoughts for fear of inciting unacceptable behaviour in others or even ourselves.

There is obviously a line, I don't know where it is until I see it. However, my line is in a different place to other peoples lines and I'm sure we all have our own differing lines. Do I think it's ok to look at a woman and think naughty thoughts? Yeah, I do. Do I think it's ok to act on those thoughts against the will of another human or allow those thoughts to harm the way I treat those people? No, I don't. I feel that way for men and women. Women should be allowed the same freedom. Yeah, we have a sexy, half naked girl advertising some shampoo or something. We also have half naked men being openly ogled by women to sell diet coke. Who are these adverts hurting exactly?

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Erm, speaking as a feminist male I DO find women attractive (believe it or not). I find boobs/bums attractive (and ears) etc. I just try not to stare/gaze upon parts of their body when walking past or talking to a woman. As for Zoo, Nuts, FHM etc I genuinely find the photoshopped to death thing kills the appeal to me. It's not wrong at all to admire the beauty of someone as long as they are representing their true self rather than a forced idea of what society deems as beautiful.

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In a world where freedom to be yourself and have your own opinion is so highly valued its a shame that so many people insist on telling me that it's wrong for me to think naughty thoughts when I look at a woman because she looks sexy.

I like boobs. I can't help it. I wish I didn't, I really do because boobs cause me to do crazy things. If I see a fantastic looking pair on a woman I'm going to be thinking wow, I'd love to have a play with those. The solution to stop me from thinking that about this woman? Have her dress up in a burka or some other outfit that hides her body shape. Is it more acceptable to teach us all that is the correct thing to do to stop people having those thoughts?

Are you people in this thread the kind of people that see a woman depicted in a sexy way on tv and go on about how disgusting it is? Does it make you feel sick the way the poor girl has been portrayed? The way she has obviously been brainwashed into thinking its right and has been pretty much forced to let herself be treated this way? Do none of you watch porn or look at magazines such as Zoo or Nuts? Or FHM? Do none of you go out in an evening and see women that you'd like to take home? Do none of you approach women ever with the desire of finding a mate whilst not for one moment having a physical attraction, do you only approach women because you want companionship and someone to talk to for the rest of your life? If you aren't interested in them sexually then why do you need a partner? Why does it even need to be a woman? Do you only pick the opposite sex because you have the need to produce offspring?

Do you all want our society to be a place where we are ashamed of our thoughts and feeling our natural urges? Much like in the movie Equilibrium perhaps? A place where we all have to dress in grey and hide our emotions and thoughts for fear of inciting unacceptable behaviour in others or even ourselves.

There is obviously a line, I don't know where it is until I see it. However, my line is in a different place to other peoples lines and I'm sure we all have our own differing lines. Do I think it's ok to look at a woman and think naughty thoughts? Yeah, I do. Do I think it's ok to act on those thoughts against the will of another human or allow those thoughts to harm the way I treat those people? No, I don't. I feel that way for men and women. Women should be allowed the same freedom. Yeah, we have a sexy, half naked girl advertising some shampoo or something. We also have half naked men being openly ogled by women to sell diet coke. Who are these adverts hurting exactly?

This is a joke post, right......right?

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In a world where freedom to be yourself and have your own opinion is so highly valued its a shame that so many people insist on telling me that it's wrong for me to think naughty thoughts when I look at a woman because she looks sexy.

I don't think there's a problem thinking naughty thoughts when you see an attractive woman. After all, that's what our species need to survive.

It becomes a problem when women in videogames (or other media) are more or less exclusively used to conjure these naughty thoughts as some kind of hormonal props for the male character to play with rather than being proper personalities/characters themselves.

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The 'Men are sexualized because they have muscles' comments always get to me. There would be much less a conflict if all women in games had big muscles too but they hardly ever do, ever. This is a classic comeback that anti feminist people love yet blindly miss the point with;

He-Man_a51a94_4798301.jpg

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