Jump to content
IGNORED

Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


Unofficial Who
 Share

Recommended Posts

Are you talking about radicals as in 'radical feminism'? If so that would be enough to put anyone off. I would say that offshoot is pretty outdated and most people of note these days would place themselves - if forced to categorise - under 'intersectional feminism' and with good reason.

I also think that you can pick apart any prominent feminist and find something problematic. Naomi Wolf being a great example - her The Beauty Myth was an important book in its time, but Wolf herself has said many problematic things that one could find fault with. Just because people are flawed and don't agree on EVERYTHING doesn't erase the good things they do put forward.

Yeah, there are plenty of other examples from what I've seen - like bell hooks being pretty whorephobic recently. Hard to have idols in a movement that's centred on giving voice to the voiceless, I suppose.

Speaking as someone on the outside - I'm a straight white cis man - I find intersectional feminism really impressive. Just the whole concept of it - that oppressions overlap and that you can't put any aside for the 'good of the movement' or the 'class' or the 'sisterhood' - speaks to a much more inclusive type of feminism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All feminism means at its basic level is believing in equal rights for women, while someone might not agree with the views of particular proponents, if someone say they're not a feminist they''re essentially saying "I don't believe women deserve equitable treatment to men". Which is why I always find it funny when the word is spat out with such venom by some.

Equal right for women means equal rights for everyone, so not necessarily feminist as much as egalitarian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Equal right for women means equal rights for everyone, so not necessarily feminist as much as egalitarian.

Well, sort of, but the feminist movement is more focussed on a particular part of the egalitarian ideal, in the same way the LGBT rights movement is focussed on another one. It's not like the word "feminism" isn't a good descriptor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All feminism means at its basic level is believing in equal rights for women, while someone might not agree with the views of particular proponents, if someone say they're not a feminist they''re essentially saying "I don't believe women deserve equitable treatment to men". Which is why I always find it funny when the word is spat out with such venom by some.

Sure. I agree with some of that. But I'm not looking at it basically. I think alot of people are put off with that approach and I count myself amongst them.

I'm able to see that feminism is an awful lot more than just treating people equitably. It's a very fractuous and diverse movement. I certainly would never use the word as an insult. My basis for not self identifying as one while being a firm believer in equality goals is a right I claim and justify by looking at the whole of the movement and saying that I agree with the basics but not some of the more radical terms based on my own experiences.

Not identifying with feminism is definitely not saying that one believes that women should be treated unfairly, I actually find that reasoning unnecessarily reductionist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They really aren't though. When you read statistics on 7 year old girls having body image problems, 11 year old girls hating themselves, 13 year old girls being sexually harassed then it's not just that some people are getting a bit hurt, society is being damaged. There are actual real life consequences to all this stuff that is quite easy to forget when you think of it only in the context of 'a videogame'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They really aren't though. When you read statistics on 7 year old girls having body image problems, 11 year old girls hating themselves, 13 year old girls being sexually harassed then it's not just that some people are getting a bit hurt, society is being damaged. There are actual real life consequences to all this stuff that is quite easy to forget when you think of it only in the context of 'a videogame'

He was referencing an old Off Topic meme about Madeleine McCann. Although what you wrote above is entirely correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, just for you, lets break it down.

TL;DR

Couldn't even be bothered to go past your first sentence, sorry. My initial post was in response to the girl in Minkee's video really. Not anyone on the forum. It was all the babbling on about men being subjects and women being objects and how men need to start treating respecting women etc. I prefer the idea that people need to start treating people with respect, gender is irrelevant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, just for you, lets break it down.

Ok, read some words in one of the last paragraphs.... All questions were rhetorical really and not genuinely expecting of answers.

I bet you say you 'don't see race', too

Of course I do, I see it all the time. Having grown up where I did being one of 4 white kids in school and my school plays being about Ramadan I couldn't help but notice a bit of colour around me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So do you think that race is irrelevant in society, as gender is, and that the key is just treating people with respect and dismissing all issues of race?

As long as nobody takes away our rights to look at boobies then I don't see a problem with the above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, you need to be aware of race I would say as a lot of the time there are different belief systems. Do I think men and women should have equal chance of getting a job? Yes. Do I think the same for a white or black person? Yes. These things should only matter if it's genuinely relevant. For example, I wouldn't employ a man if I was running a quality control department for clitoral stimulators perhaps. Unless I needed someone in finance?

Then of course, like I say, belief or religious needs. I have a team of staff that include vegetarians due to their religious requirements. When I take them out for lunch I ensure we go to a place that has a menu that will cater to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We aren't anywhere close to having an equal society so it usually comes off as smug posturing from people who don't have to factor it into their daily existence. When an able-bodied straight white guy says something like 'I don't see race', it doesn't really have much meaning because 99% of society is already set up to cater for them. He gets to the job interview because it says 'Mike' at the top of his CV and not 'Mohamed'. That sort of thing.

So, what if he was disabled? Would he be more entitled to say it? How much more entitled does being gay make you? Or female?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A personal principled stand to ignore issues of race and gender doesn't make those issues go away - they remain on a structural level. Pontificating about how it doesn't matter changes precisely nothing, and indeed these things do matter for the sections of the society that we've othered - women, people of colour, LGB and queer and trans people, etc. The situation is getting better but it's getting better through active campaigning and protest and raising of awareness, not this Pontius Pilate washing of hands and then complicity in privilege, which is the end result of 'not seeing' difference every single time.

I wasn't saying differences should be ignored, I was saying they shouldn't be an issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course issues exist and should be fought. But the reasoning should not be "check your privilege" which in my experience just angers and alenates people. Just assert that some people are less aware of the issues because they aren't affected by them and to be mindful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.