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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

Unofficial Who

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Wiper

Wiper

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Posted

So which side of the fence are you on?

As Napole0n says, geekette's clearly not stereotyping men as dogs, she's pointing out how ridiculous the "but men can't help themselves, it's only natural for them to be massive fucking creeps and have insurmountable urges to fuck any woman who dares to have more than a fifth of their body exposed" logic is.
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shesaid

shesaid

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The image isn't really comparing men to dogs though, is it? It's a rebutal to the 'if I see an attractive woman, natural instincts take over' argument put forward by some rape/sexual harassment apologists.

It is comparing them, even if it is just a rebuttal. It shouldn't matter one bit what men do - if they want to join in and make the world more equal, fine. If not, no matter. That's why it's imo irrelevant that men are finding titties arousing, and they (titties) are therefore used to sell stuff to men. I am interested in what the effect of said titties is on women.

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Dig Dug

Dig Dug

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Posted

So apparently GAME are pushing that Senran Kagura and giving it a fair bit of promotion. This is what I saw on another forum by someone who works at GAME.

So remember Senran Kagura Burst? (The 3DS game with the pair of tits on the front). Today I was preparing the 3DS coming soon shelf, one half LEGO Movie the Game, and another half Senran Kagura. And people say that GAME don't stock the Niche titles gamers want!

Best part is the tag line on the back of the box: 'Two perfect reasons to turn your 3D on' and one of its bullet points is 'Dynamic costume damage!'.

And they sent us 20 inserts for it so yah know it's gonna be a big seller! Poor inFamous only got 4.

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smac

smac

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For some reason, Amazon thinks I'd be interested in that title. Can't be because I've bought Dragon's Crown, Catherine, Bayonetta, Lollipop Chainsaw and DOA: Dimensions in the past couple of years, can it?

Oh, FFS; I just went to the Amazon page to read the product description:

Not to mention its use of the 3DS' unique functions - blow on the 3DS to lift the girls' skirts up and view their er, key features in stereoscopic 3D!

At least in the original DOA you had to carefully position your fighters above an air vent for that... what?

So, yeah, um, Sarkeesian has a valid point to make. Japanese development also adds a whole other layer of cultural difference into the mix.

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Rev

Rev

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Posted

Jesus.

Saying such things anonymously is bad, but saying "My name is Paul Trillo, I study BA (Hons) Computer Games Design at Teesside University, graduating in 2014 and I write things like this:"

"Everyone gets shat on in some way or another its the natural way of the internet. The only reason it comes across that women get it hit harder is because they complain about it whereas men just ignore it/laugh it off."

And:

"Anonymous rape and death threats on twitter are utterly meaningless and I expect a very high percentage of them are just trolls, if all these women just ignored these trolls then they would stop but they don't, what they do is play the victim "ohh look at me im getting all these death and rape threats over twitter poor me my life is hard!" I have no idea why they do this (I would love to know if they are attention whores or just very naive). Then of course video game sites/SJW blogs pick up on it (because real journalism is to hard) and it turns into a shitstorm which just amplifies the trolling towards that person."

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Alex W.

Alex W.

Posted
Posted

Nicholas Pantazis

Senior Editor

VGChartz Ltd

TOP COMMENT

I felt betrayed by Sarkeesian. I backed her, and in return received extremely poorly made videos with awful fact-checking and very little insight into the problems (and victories) of women in the medium. Genuinely kind of sad to see her getting an award for her efforts, which honestly felt a lot like a scam to run away with a lot of kickstarter money.

Wow.

Edit- Ignoring the internet morons, though: it's fantastic that she's getting this sort of recognition.

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joeplus

joeplus

Posted
Posted

I stumbled across this tonight, from the popular rllmuk man and Chuckie Dregs contributor Matt Sponge Jam Lees.

It's a completely reasonable, feminist dude 101 opinion piece, with a whole load of great points. Naturally, it has 461 likes, 384 dislikes, which is a ratio usually reserved for videos of unattractive people who can't sing practicing for X-Factor auditions and going viral. The comments are completely terrible (mans get shot in wars, etc) as you'd expect.

I have a kind of two-layered point:

Firstly, do remember we have a cosy, older-leaning, mainly leftie demographic here on Rllmuk. The video mentions 25 as an age where feminism stopped being a joke, and I think that probably rings true for a lot of people, male or female. But lots of internet places are on average below that age figure. From my experience it's a very real thing that almost all gaming discussion of feminism gets mocked/buried/attacked.

Secondly, and more hearteningly, this internet hivemind opinion doesn't seem to be shared by anyone who actually works in gaming. To address the thread topic, I don't think I've seen a single bit of negative coverage for Tropes vs. Women (which really shouldn't even be controversial, it's so gentle) from anyone who actually has an editor. That's good, and it gives me heart.

Sorry, this is a drunk ramble. I think that the big crappy bubble of irate 12-20s who dominate gaming's internet culture are a constant, and that outside of this, everyone else is getting better in lots of ways. I'm choosing optimism for now.

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earlymodernsteve

earlymodernsteve

Posted
Posted

This thread was linked on Twitter, from A Voice for Men forum (Jesus wept), which surely pushes Rllmuk down to third most cuntiest forum:

http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?8009-Sooo-Broken-Age

choice quotes: 'Because for feminists sex is the worst thing that can happen to a woman. (And let's be honest, in our society sex they're not wild about with someone that's not male model attractive usually IS the worst thing that happens to a majority of women. Although I will admit that dying in childbirth was and is still a very real threat, it's also a fact of life and would happen even if she were married to someone she chose herself).'

'Oh my God, don't get me going on the horrors of sex. Like water boarding and other forms of torture, sexual intercourse is one of those things that fills a woman with dread and fear. And, of course, horror and disgust and skin crawling revulsion. How can we, as a humane society, allow something so barbaric to continue happening? All proof that we need more feminism.'

:facepalm: :facepalm:

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Clipper

Clipper

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Posted

This thread was linked on Twitter, from A Voice for Men forum (Jesus wept), which surely pushes Rllmuk down to third most cuntiest forum:

http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?8009-Sooo-Broken-Age

choice quotes: 'Because for feminists sex is the worst thing that can happen to a woman. (And let's be honest, in our society sex they're not wild about with someone that's not male model attractive usually IS the worst thing that happens to a majority of women. Although I will admit that dying in childbirth was and is still a very real threat, it's also a fact of life and would happen even if she were married to someone she chose herself).'

'Oh my God, don't get me going on the horrors of sex. Like water boarding and other forms of torture, sexual intercourse is one of those things that fills a woman with dread and fear. And, of course, horror and disgust and skin crawling revulsion. How can we, as a humane society, allow something so barbaric to continue happening? All proof that we need more feminism.'

:facepalm: :facepalm:

Oh christ that site...

Women are notorious for using sex in order to extort material gain and favors from men such as dates, dinners, presents, white knighting, and lifelong slavery (more commonly known as marriage). It's sort of like a bartering system where the average woman prostitutes herself in exchange for goods and services. If women were to show they enjoyed sex on enough of a level that they're willing to up their porn and stripper consumption to match male consumption, they would be destroying the illusion that female sex is worth more than male sex and the value for female sex would plummet. Furthermore, if men weren't shamed for enjoying porn and strippers with those moronic extortion claims, more men would be able to get off without having to dump all their money into relationships and the demand for female sex would drop, further reducing women's bartering power. Women need to keep up the illusion that their sexual supply is scarce and valuable, hence the need to shame men who don't opt into the traditional sex-barter economy and the lack of female consumption in things that overtly say "We like sex too".

I've never actually had any first hand experience with romance, but I've seen and read enough about other people's experiences to give me an impression that this is how it works.

the last line sells it perfectly

Women devaluing the primary goods and services women offer ie sex and driving down both price and demand must be viewed harshly by the women's guild aka feminism.

I don't even...

I checked, not a bruciebabie site either :)

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minkee

minkee

Posted
Posted

I would genuinely like to know who thinks that men don't have a voice. It's inconceivable to me. Perhaps marginalised men, but I don't think that's their point.



Actually I've immediately changed my mind, I thought about the possible answers and have decided I don't want to know

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Rev

Rev

Posted
Posted

I would genuinely like to know who thinks that men don't have a voice. It's inconceivable to me. Perhaps marginalised men, but I don't think that's their point.

Actually I've immediately changed my mind, I thought about the possible answers and have decided I don't want to know

I understand* what they're saying as, in their cackhanded-conspiracy-theory-plain-wrong kinda way, is that men never have a spokesperson. Every minority has a spokesperson, the kind of rolled-out-to-comment-on-a-news-story person, but there isn't one for men. Which is "unfair". Everyone else knows that the minorities have spokespeople as otherwise they'd be drowned out by the noise of the empowered majority, ie. men.

They have an accurate observation, they just don't have an accurate explanation for it.

*To make it very, very clear: Do not agree with it.

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Lag

Lag

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Posted

Secondly, and more hearteningly, this internet hivemind opinion doesn't seem to be shared by anyone who actually works in gaming. To address the thread topic, I don't think I've seen a single bit of negative coverage for Tropes vs. Women (which really shouldn't even be controversial, it's so gentle) from anyone who actually has an editor.

Not people with a column, no, but there are some awful industry commenters btl at gamesindustry.biz

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George Clooney

George Clooney

Posted
Posted

I stumbled across this tonight, from the popular rllmuk man and Chuckie Dregs contributor Matt Sponge Jam Lees.

It's a completely reasonable, feminist dude 101 opinion piece, with a whole load of great points. Naturally, it has 461 likes, 384 dislikes, which is a ratio usually reserved for videos of unattractive people who can't sing practicing for X-Factor auditions and going viral. The comments are completely terrible (mans get shot in wars, etc) as you'd expect.

I have a kind of two-layered point:

Firstly, do remember we have a cosy, older-leaning, mainly leftie demographic here on Rllmuk. The video mentions 25 as an age where feminism stopped being a joke, and I think that probably rings true for a lot of people, male or female. But lots of internet places are on average below that age figure. From my experience it's a very real thing that almost all gaming discussion of feminism gets mocked/buried/attacked.

Secondly, and more hearteningly, this internet hivemind opinion doesn't seem to be shared by anyone who actually works in gaming. To address the thread topic, I don't think I've seen a single bit of negative coverage for Tropes vs. Women (which really shouldn't even be controversial, it's so gentle) from anyone who actually has an editor. That's good, and it gives me heart.

Sorry, this is a drunk ramble. I think that the big crappy bubble of irate 12-20s who dominate gaming's internet culture are a constant, and that outside of this, everyone else is getting better in lots of ways. I'm choosing optimism for now.

I dont think anyone in the mainstream (thankfully) sites would dare to. As Godofcheeky says though, some of the commenters at gameindustry.biz seem to be on the "she's a liar and a scam artist, and I dont think there are any problems with sexism in the industry". However, it never ceases to amaze me how many people have made response videos to "refute" her, or that one of the most rational ones I saw was actually by the Amazing fucking Atheist (to be fair, he wasnt actually trying to refute her, but say she should allow comments on her videos, he even went as far as to say that aside from a few minor points, he thought the first video was pretty fair and encouraged people to watch it). Most are terrible, with poorly thought out arguments, full of strawmen and fallacies. The worst I've seen were by a youtuber called MrRepzion, who seems to be a teenage Amazing Atheist wannabe with a bee in his bonnet about Anita (he's made a few about her - some over an hour). Rather than watch his videos though to witness the shitness and missing the point of her videos (which he does, by a mile), here's a video much more worth your time, from a guy who goes through his many errors and presents arguments why he's wrong. At some points when he's playing clips of MrRepzions vids, his reations are great, at one point it looks like he's about to start spasming from the stupidity. Also, MrRepzions videos all seem to have his face in the thumbnail stuck in "annoying smug grin mode".

Despite the fact there's around 400 video responses criticising her work, there's actually a petition to "allow criticism of her work"

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/415/777/451/acknowledge-and-present-legitimate-criticism-of-anita-sarkeesian/

It doesnt say how they should be allowed to. Apparently, posting tonnes of videos calling her a liar or any of the many blog/forum posts arent enough. It also hints that somehow "her word is being allowed to be portrayed as final". It seems to hint that they want to take her videos down. I'm sure the exact same people would be crying about free speech if such a thing happened regarding videos about misandry.

That voice for men forum is particularly depressing. Of course, they have a thread on Anita, linking to a tweet she made about getting abuse on the internet, with people replying with shit like "well, none of my female friends are being actively targetted by a hate campaign, so I think she's exaggerating". Oh, and she's just manipulating the harassment for her own ends. I had to stop reading it because the comments were enough to make me want to cut my cock off and disassociate myself from the male gender just so people wouldnt mistake those fucktards views for anything resembling mine.

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