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Official Star Wars Thread - May the force be with you


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Canon answer: his body didn’t, but he had some rudimentary clone bodies on ice ready for him to “force transfer“ over to in an emergency (such as plummeting down a bottomless shaft in an exploding space station). The Emperor in TROS is the nth clone body, as they are never strong enough to hold him for long, which is why he wanted Rey’s power to help and why it made him “regenerate” when he absorbed it.

 

Real answer: what @Joystick Chevron said.

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Is Rise of Skywalker considered the worst one now? It’s definitely at the bottom of my definitive ranking of watchable Star Wars stuff. I never thought I’d see a Star Wars film worse than Attack of the Clones. 

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AotC at least does interesting, and at times brave stuff, has cool locations and designs, Across The Stars is ace, Jango’s Bwwwwwwwwwraaaaaaaaaaaang bombs sound amazing, and the Clonetroopers own bones.

 

TRoS is just irredeemable trash on every level other than the acting. Even its score is pants, if you’d told me John Williams was half dead scribbling it on napkins from a rest home somewhere, I could well believe it. 

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47 minutes ago, Joystick Chevron said:

 

TRoS is just irredeemable trash on every level other than the acting. Even its score is pants, if you’d told me John Williams was half dead scribbling it on napkins from a rest home somewhere, I could well believe it. 

 

It was the stupid fast editing of the film. The poor bastard had to cut from one theme to the next in seconds. It just couldn't settle. I'm surprised he didn't die when conducting it.

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Attack of the Clones has a massive Anakin problem but isn't irredeemably terrible. Hayden Christensen is bloody awful, looks stupid, has terrible dialogue and his romance with Padme is utterly unbelievable. He almost derails the whole movie. But Ewan McGregor works his socks off, the design of the whole thing is pretty awesome, Christopher Lee does his best to add some gravitas and overall - taken as the middle part of a trilogy that actually tries to tell a coherent story - it's bearable. It actually seems better in retrospect once you've seen where it's all going in Revenge of the Sith (in which Christensen is significantly better), and The Clone Wars completes its redemption. I can't really defend it as a movie, but you can see what they were going for, it at least has a purpose for existing.

 

The Rise of Skywalker, on the other hand, is incoherent trash. An exercise in throwing stuff at the screen and hoping someone likes it. There's no purpose to its existence at all, no attempt at world-building, no character development, just a load of stuff we've seen before reheated for another lukewarm outing. In this case it achieves the opposite, it makes the two movies that preceded it seem worse. It's comfortably the worst Star War there has been (and I include Solo in that).

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Rise also really hammers home how stupid the world of Star Wars is, with no cameras etc. It’s full of “problems” that a society with FTL technology has no reason to have. When they said that they couldn’t use the information on the dagger because they no longer had the physical item I thought my head was going to explode. 

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3 hours ago, Broker said:

Is Rise of Skywalker considered the worst one now? It’s definitely at the bottom of my definitive ranking of watchable Star Wars stuff. I never thought I’d see a Star Wars film worse than Attack of the Clones. 


I can’t honestly say I think it’s as bad as any of the Prequels because while it’s a garbled mess I did enjoy bits of it.

 

In contrast every five years or so I try and re-watch Revenge of the Sith (or whatever), because it’s supposed to be the good rubbish one. This time I couldn’t get past the garish initial space battle and then our boring corporate Jedis stuck in a lift before giving up.

 

They are literally unwatchable. Every time I hear people say, yeah but x or y is good in AOTC or the others I look and just see a steaming pile of shit.

 

I’m glad some people get something out of then, but to me they are eye-gougingly dreadful with no redeeming features st ala

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Which bits of it? The performances are definitely better in Rise, but everything they’re saying and doing is an order of magnitude more stupid than even the prequels. The prequels are definitely boring, but Rise of Skywalker is insulting with how stupid it seems to think it’s audience is. 

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For me, the only film of the new trilogy I'd probably rewatch is The Last Jedi. At least that's attempting to tread new ground, even if some of it doesn't work. While I enjoyed The Force Awakens, it really doesn't stand up to repeated viewings and I've not rewatched Rise of the Skywalker since seeing it in the cinema. While I wouldn't say it's worse than Attack of the Clones, it fails it different areas and it's easily the most disappointed I've ever been with a Star Wars film. 

 

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1 hour ago, Waggo said:

The Genosis battle in AOTC looked like a PlayStation Game even at the time it came out, so God knows what it looks like now. 

 

I disagree: I remember the effects in all the prequels being really impressive and genuinely feeling like they were state-of-the-art and a step forward at the time. In particular, I had no idea on first viewing that the clone troopers' armour was not practical. And the sheer scale of the battle scenes was still a novelty back then.

 

I'm not saying the effects were always perfectly convincingly realistic: in that respect, none of Episode 2 or 3's CG characters could compete with Gollum, six months or so later. But to compare it to video game graphics of the time is a ridiculous exaggeration.

 

The droid factory bit of AOTC, maybe - but not the end battle sequence!

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For all their many, many flaws, I'll take the prequels over the ST any day. The story they tell is interesting and relevant on a macro level, and Anakin's, while it certainly could benefit from a few tweaks here and there, is pretty human and relatable - a crushing fear of loss and loneliness driving him to do terrible things. Plus Palpatine is just bloody wonderful at every step of the way, the dude's just hamming it up having the time of his life wrecking everything.

 

Conversely, while TFA is a fun and competent opener, it's also incredibly forgettable and just warmed-up leftovers, it contributes almost nothing new. TLJ is interesting in parts (I really dig bitter, regretful Luke calling the Jedi out for their failure) but also disjointed and does my man Finn dirty. Ultimately both films are negated by the unholy nonsensical clusterfuck that TRoS delivers, it's thematically worthless, has nothing insightful to add to the saga. As the capstone to both a new trilogy and a 40 year story, it's absolute garbage. Because it is just a tacked on load of shit that never should have been made in the first place as the story really begins and ends with Anakin - the idea of a nine part saga really died in the early 80s and should never have been revived in the first place.

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10 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

What’s worse.. good ideas executed horribly (the prequels), or horrible ideas executed to a reasonable standard (the sequels)?

 

Someone just make a good Star Wars movie that does both, already.
 

It’s been 40 years ffs.


What good ideas? The mysterious Jedi as middle managers in a tower block? An annoying brat who builds a protocol droid for no reason and has an R2 unit, neither of whom remember him despite years of adventures? Younglings? Midichlorines? Nooooooooooooo? All clones are from New Zealand? Filming everything in one room on a green screen? Trade embargoes? Yippee!? Casting a small kid in the first place instead of a young man? Yoda not being funny, ever? Meesa poo-poo?
 

Like the new trilogy, it’s been up to the expanded universe to cobble together some kind of cohesive narrative from a load of old bollocks.

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2 hours ago, Broker said:

Which bits of it? The performances are definitely better in Rise, but everything they’re saying and doing is an order of magnitude more stupid than even the prequels. The prequels are definitely boring, but Rise of Skywalker is insulting with how stupid it seems to think it’s audience is. 


Yeah, it’s the performances and more solid feeling World that I enjoyed, despite them being in the middle of a car crash. Babu Frik was good...Er...ok, I’m struggling now.
 

Fuck me it was dumb.

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3 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

All of the prequels are far, far, far worse than The Rise of Skywalker. 

 

Hyperbole! And as such, patently untrue.

 

But your post raises an interesting issue for me. In terms of intent in the legal sense, the prequel trilogy is quite obviously innocent, while Rise of Skywalker is clearly guilty on all charges.

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26 minutes ago, drmick said:

Hyperbole! And as such, patently untrue.


Tried so hard over the years to see whatever it is you’re seeing in the Prequels that’s redeemable. Not found it so far.
 

A real masterclass in bad everything. Not hyperbole, just blindingly obvious.

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30 minutes ago, Ivanho said:


Rogue One


The only Star Wars movie that’s even more of a lazy nostalgia bait than TFA? A movie with no characters, no arcs, no growth and no point other than tricking people who like Star Wars into handing over cash?

 

I’m genuinely impressed by how well their “put one cool scene” at the end philosophy worked. The whole movie is pointless, meaningless garbage, but because it ends with us finally getting to see something new on screen that we’ve been desperate to see for years everyone leaves thinking it was great. 

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11 hours ago, Broker said:


The only Star Wars movie that’s even more of a lazy nostalgia bait than TFA? A movie with no characters, no arcs, no growth and no point other than tricking people who like Star Wars into handing over cash?

 

I’m genuinely impressed by how well their “put one cool scene” at the end philosophy worked. The whole movie is pointless, meaningless garbage, but because it ends with us finally getting to see something new on screen that we’ve been desperate to see for years everyone leaves thinking it was great. 


Sorry mate but that is a crock of shit.

 

The scene with Vader at the end is probably my least favourite scene in the film, as did not think it was necessary and considering the film leads directly into ANH it is not in line with the Vader we see in that film. 
 

The film itself though has plenty of excellent characters a coherent plot and most importantly of all it feels like Star Wars.

 

Edit: On reflection after a night’s sleep I have concluded the Octupus torture bit is actually my least favourite scene in the film!!!!  The basic point still stands though.

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3 hours ago, womblingfree said:

What good ideas? The mysterious Jedi as middle managers in a tower block? An annoying brat who builds a protocol droid for no reason and has an R2 unit, neither of whom remember him despite years of adventures? Younglings? Midichlorines? Nooooooooooooo? All clones are from New Zealand? Filming everything in one room on a green screen? Trade embargoes? Yippee!? Casting a small kid in the first place instead of a young man? Yoda not being funny, ever? Meesa poo-poo?
 

Like the new trilogy, it’s been up to the expanded universe to cobble together some kind of cohesive narrative from a load of old bollocks.

 

Yeah, most of those things were fundamentally flawed from the start. But there were still good ideas in the prequels that could have worked better with different execution:

 

* The Republic sleepwalking into becoming the Empire, being manipulated by the man who'll become Emperor, is a good overarching story.

 

* The Jedi turning out to be fallible, and this leading to Anakin's dissatisfaction with them, is a good idea to make his turn to the Dark Side convincing. The problem was that after the OT, fans really wanted to see the Jedi genuinely at their peak, as implied by Obi-Wan's descriptions in A New Hope, so were disappointed when they were presented as a stuffy council reluctant to act. If Episode 1 had begun by depicting all the Jedi at their coolest (instead of just Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon), people would have been more forgiving.

 

* Episode 2's idea to tell a mystery/detective story in the Star Wars universe by sending a young Obi-Wan on an investigation was a good one: it's not a genre of story we'd seen in a Star Wars film before, and it was a good excuse to explore the galaxy, and show how  interacts with people outside the Jedi. Again, it was just executed badly: the Syfo Dias stuff fizzled out instead of being wrapped up properly (it was never clear if he was a real Jedi, or just Dooku's pseudonym), and the other characters he met (like Dexter in the diner) turned out to be annoying.

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Making the Jedi a cohort of middle-managers from LA Law in a skyscraper was certainly thinking out the box. Like making King Arthur and the nights of the Round Table staff at a McDonalds drive-thru.

 

I hear what you’re saying @Nick R but despite watching those films multiple times I’m struggling to remember any of the things you’re saying. The films are just noisy, boring, annoying visually wretched and terribly acted, edited and scripted amorphous blobs to me.

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