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Official Star Wars Thread - May the force be with you


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6 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

I just don't understand this - TLJ deals with loads of stuff from The Force Awakens. The film dealt with Luke in an unexpected way, and ended his arc positively. It dealt with Snoke, who was fucking shite to start with. It answered the Rey's parents question really well, she's not from the dynasties, she's responsible for herself - it nailed this by including the scene at the end with the nobody kid (but it left it open that maybe this was just an interpretation.) It added the possibility of a non-Sith non-Jedi (new stuff!) and the Force-sensitive communication. Luke's fate is a million times better, and more Star Wars, than the rubbish end Han suffers.

 

Not to mention that it was Abrams that set up the mysteries with no conclusions, so it's hardly Johnson's fault that his resolutions didn't please people, and even then, he didn't explain the Knights of Ren or Rey's flashbacks when she saw the sabre so it's a good thing JJ came back to.....oh.....um.....actually Abrams hadn't a fucking clue what to do with the shit he set up, nothing at all. His retrofit of the emperor was earned? Nope. The Rey lineage thing? Just awful. Unearned nonsense. Worse than anything Johnson did. 

 

If the film should be criticised then it's for the stupid slow chase and the prequel-style casino, not for the Luke and Rey stories.

 

 

"Deals with Luke in an unexpected way" 

 

Goes against his OT character to the point Mark Hamill states he disagreed with every choice made in publicity for the film. Nicely, because Mark Hamill is awesome. 

 

Given that, is possible to see how people may not have liked it? 

 

"Dealt with Snoke" 

 

Killed him with his tongue lolling out in a completely misplaced attempt at humour, which was a general issue with the films bad guys. The phone call scene at the start was even worse. Tarkin was not a figure of ridicule in the OT. 

 

The Emperor would also have been shit if all you got of him was two minutes in TESB and the Luke offs him without any trouble in in ROTJ. 

 

"Rey is not from a dynasty" 

 

Yes, yes, aren't you so clever. Bran also gonna sit on the Iron Throne because he has the best story. 

 

Boring, always liable to be retconned, was retconned. 

 

"Brush child is wonderful". 

 

Who is Yoda's da? Obi Wan's? The ones from Star Wars Rebels? The one from Fallen Order. Fixing a problem that never existed. 

 

I could see how people like some of the above. Just lots of people didn't presumably you can also see why. Luke's solution to fighting Kylo genuinely good: it have lit up a better film. Then they offed him for no reason at all and sucked all the joy out of it. 

 

The bits you mention as crap are also crap.

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22 minutes ago, Jg15 said:

Would people have been happier had the Mando version of Luke appeared before the TLJ one?

 

My guess is probably not. I think most people were more upset at seeing a disillusioned, shabby old Luke and not some wise old Master who was only to willing to dispense his wisdom and teachings to Rey.

 

But grumpy Luke is the best Luke, I really enjoyed his interactions with Rey, best part of the movie.

 

I didn't mind Luke being grumpy. I minded that he'd apparently given up. 

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33 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

 

"Deals with Luke in an unexpected way" 

 

Goes against his OT character to the point Mark Hamill states he disagreed with every choice made in publicity for the film. Nicely, because Mark Hamill is awesome. 

 

Given that, is possible to see how people may not have liked it? 

 

"Dealt with Snoke" 

 

Killed him with his tongue lolling out in a completely misplaced attempt at humour, which was a general issue with the films bad guys. The phone call scene at the start was even worse. Tarkin was not a figure of ridicule in the OT. 

 

The Emperor would also have been shit if all you got of him was two minutes in TESB and the Luke offs him without any trouble in in ROTJ. 

 

"Rey is not from a dynasty" 

 

Yes, yes, aren't you so clever. Bran also gonna sit on the Iron Throne because he has the best story. 

 

Boring, always liable to be retconned, was retconned. 

 

"Brush child is wonderful". 

 

Who is Yoda's da? Obi Wan's? The ones from Star Wars Rebels? The one from Fallen Order. Fixing a problem that never existed. 

 

I could see how people like some of the above. Just lots of people didn't presumably you can also see why. Luke's solution to fighting Kylo genuinely good: it have lit up a better film. Then they offed him for no reason at all and sucked all the joy out of it. 

 

The bits you mention as crap are also crap.

 

Quotes that make up what I said. Cool. Not worth a response.

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1 hour ago, Jg15 said:

Would people have been happier had the Mando version of Luke appeared before the TLJ one?

 

My guess is probably not. I think most people were more upset at seeing a disillusioned, shabby old Luke and not some wise old Master who was only to willing to dispense his wisdom and teachings to Rey.

 

But grumpy Luke is the best Luke, I really enjoyed his interactions with Rey, best part of the movie.

 

I imagine the same people would have reacted similarily to Grand Master Yoga giggling and capering around if they had seen the films in a differing order.

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7 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Quotes that make up what I said. Cool. Not worth a response.

 

Paraphrased because multiple quotes take ages. Genuinely responded based on how I understood what you've said. I'm sorry if I've misrepresented that. 

 

4 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Haven't you heard? It turns out anyone who liked TLJ was just pretending. 

 

43 minutes ago, kensei said:

I could see how people like some of the above

 

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Just now, Festoon said:

 

I imagine the same people would have reacted similarily to Grand Master Yoga giggling and capering around if they had seen the films in a differing order.

 

Yoda giggles and capers around when he's testing Luke. He's deadly serious from the moment he reveals himself as far as I remember, right into ROTJ. 

 

I think the context is important. It's not that it's an act that's no bearing on his character, but Yoda isn't going to goof when it matters and if a film did that it's a mistake.

 

Also, are people down on the Mando Hall scene now? It was awesome. That stuff has its place too. Small doses for fun and also to establish a character's bona fides, to provide context for later threats. 

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On 05/02/2021 at 21:13, Festoon said:

 

I was thinking while watching the film that, with Luke's criticism of the Jedi before their fall as being pompous fools and his unwillingness to restart that system, and the psychic link between Rey and Ren, that they were going to go all out and smash through the Dark/Light Side stuff and set up Rey and Ren as something genuinely new in Star Wars, which would've been interesting.

 

But then they didn't bother.


This is the problem with TLJ. It thinks it’s being clever and subverting Star Wars, but fluffs the opportunity to do so at every turn.

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1 hour ago, kensei said:

"Deals with Luke in an unexpected way”

 

Goes against his OT character to the point Mark Hamill states he disagreed with every choice made in publicity for the film. Nicely, because Mark Hamill is awesome. 


Luke in the OT is a naive farm boy who blows up the Death Star using the Force after two minutes on a training ball. At the end of RotJ he is a hopeful, newly enabled Jedi.

 

Forty years later in TLJ he’s a cranky old hermit living in the middle of nowhere after the realities of life have beaten him into submission, just like Yoda & Obi Wan.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, womblingfree said:


Luke in the OT is a naive farm boy who blows up the Death Star using the Force after two minutes on a training ball. At the end of RotJ he is a hopeful, newly enabled Jedi.

 

Forty years later in TLJ he’s a cranky old hermit living in the middle of nowhere after the realities of life have beaten him into submission, just like Yoda & Obi Wan.

 

 

 

The first paragraph oversimplifies the first film but the point is - I saw Luke go through the journey of being a farm boy to being a newly minted Jedi through three films. Not withstanding Star Wars is an ensemble film, Luke's the hero. I only really got into Star Wars in my teens, but for many he's a formative childhood hero. 

 

The second part is off screen. 8 episode Disney+ walking me through how he got there. Do it well and I'll buy it. Dropping it cold in a film after no real appearance in the previous film. No. I don't like it and you can't make me. 

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32 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

The first paragraph oversimplifies the first film but the point is - I saw Luke go through the journey of being a farm boy to being a newly minted Jedi through three films. Not withstanding Star Wars is an ensemble film, Luke's the hero. I only really got into Star Wars in my teens, but for many he's a formative childhood hero. 

 

The second part is off screen. 8 episode Disney+ walking me through how he got there. Do it well and I'll buy it. Dropping it cold in a film after no real appearance in the previous film. No. I don't like it and you can't make me. 

I do like it and you can't make me not. 

 

ROS is a turkey though. 

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1 hour ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I do like it and you can't make me not. 

 

ROS is a turkey though. 

 

I don't want to, even if that doesn't come across! I just want you to understand why I don't. 

 

I actually enjoyed ROS more while 100% accepting it's a pile of nonsense. 

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@womblingfree I didn't like the alternative IX script because if I remember correctly it went with something that smelt very much like grey Jedi, which I have never liked. My head cannon is the dark side is like the one ring: you can't dabble, it corrupts. Forever dominate your destiny excetera. 

 

But I agree it read like a far better sequel. 

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I really do think the lack of context hurts the Sequel films. They purposefully go out of their way to be obtuse on what has happened in the galaxy in the intervening years, instead relying on fans to purchase expanded material for tidbits. 

 

Want to know what happened to the Empire after Palp's bit the dust? Go and read some books.

 

Did Luke really form a Jedi Order and were they all destroyed (expect Luke and Ben?) - read comics.

 

Who in the fuck are the Knights of Ren (other than a bunch of Ben Solo groupies) and why do they only appear in the last film for no apparent reason? - Probably a future TV show will answer this.

 

Ultimately having a story still tied to the legacy characters was always going to hamper the development of the new cast as well. I understand its great to "pass the baton" but it never feels earned. Luke, Leia, Han and the rag tag Rebellion beating the almighty Empire at the end of Jedi really felt genuinely awe inspiring. In comparison I really couldn't care less about Rebel Alliance 2 beating Empire 2 as the threat from the First Order just didn't feel real enough compared to Rebels vs Empire. Of course, without a truly scary villan like Vader, how can it?

 

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27 minutes ago, kensei said:

@womblingfree I didn't like the alternative IX script because if I remember correctly it went with something that smelt very much like grey Jedi, which I have never liked. My head cannon is the dark side is like the one ring: you can't dabble, it corrupts. Forever dominate your destiny excetera. 

 

But I agree it read like a far better sequel. 

Qui-Gon Jinn is a great example of a "grey" Jedi and I wish we would have gotten to see more of him. He seemed far more balanced and "human" than the rest of the Jedi we see from that era.

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5 minutes ago, Glasgowchivas said:

I wonder which will end first, the Brexit discourse or The Last Jedi discourse?

Joking, I know the answer...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Neither :-(

 


whats a discourse?

 

it’s a da pudding!

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So in Summary, @K's defence of the last Jedi is mental. If JJ sets up some shit in the force awakens, it's expected it'll get answered. Whether that's Rian's fault, JJ's fault, or KK's fault it doesn't matter. It didn't. Grumpy Luke? Meh, sure why not, but at least spend 5 minutes explaining why. Kylo going bad *exactly like his father* and have luke chuck it all in, makes no sense.

 

I'm with you @kensei Apart from the Grey Jedi. Bring in the average Jedi I say.

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