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Official Star Wars Thread - May the force be with you


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49 minutes ago, Darren said:


Whoever decided to make this with the white and milk chocolate that way round should be thrown into the Great Pit of Carkoon.

Yeah, but who the fuck wants a majority white chocolate Easter egg with tiny bits of milk chocolate?

 

Nobody, that’s who.

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On 08/04/2021 at 22:23, JPL said:

Yeah, but who the fuck wants a majority white chocolate Easter egg with tiny bits of milk chocolate?

 

Nobody, that’s who.

Me. White chocolate is food of the gods. 

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I think whatever went on behind the scenes of the Disney sequels is actually much more interesting than what they made for our screens. 
 

Obvs take with a grain of salt but this was leaked a couple of days ago. It may be completely fabricated, but a lot of it makes sense in terms of the broad strokes of what we ended up getting:

 

What happened with the Disney Sequel Trilogy and the changes to Episode IX

 

I  worked on the sequel trilogy for its entire run. From ***The Force Awakens*** to ***The Last Jedi*** and ***The Rise of Skywalker***. The world has changed, as has my position in the roots of this tree. In the next coming  days...weeks...months...there will be a several leaks due to shakeups at Lucasfilm. Leaks have become a part of the culture of the company. I  wanted to set some matters straight before that occurred. Who am I? Does it matter? There's nothing I could provide to convince everyone who I was without doxxing myself. Something I'm not particular open to doing. Take this as gospel or with a grain of salt.

 

**Regarding Lucasfilm**

* There has never been a cultural civil war at Lucasfilm.
* Nevertheless, a disagreement on what direction to take the franchise has always been a recurring problem.
* Certain members of the Lucasfilm story group, Pablo, desired to see Star Wars resemble a D&D campaign. More aesthetic, less narrative.
* Others, Favreau and Filoni, are pushing/pushed for a more traditional approach.
* There isn't some war between Kathy and Favreau. They are on rather pleasant terms. Kathy seems to want him to take over once she retires/is  promoted.
* Favreau may or may not take the position.
* Filoni isn't interested nor is he even remotely qualified to run a film studio. He's much happier working on his own stories.

**Regarding The Sequel Trilogy**

* Each sequel trilogy director prioritized their scripts differently. Johnson was intoxicated with the themes. Trevorrow had been infatuated with the spectacle. And Abrams favored the concepts.
* As to be expected, this led to very different approaches to the sequels, some Lucasfilm fancied, others...not as much. Rey, being the biggest  disagreement.
* Abrams initially had hoped to work with George. That didn't work out. When George walked, JJ had almost attempted the same. Iger stopped him.
* Lucasfilm saw the sequels as the departure from the old way into a new era.  Initially, they had fuddled around with Rey being the granddaughter of Obi-Wan, before settling on no one.
* Abrams wanted Rey to be the granddaughter of Anakin, eventually pushing for her to be Luke's  daughter he had with a fellow rebel after the war.
* The backstory to how Rey was left on Jakku changed several times. Luke left her with Lor San Tekka, who had once been a force user as well, in one draft. Another draft Kylo left her there as an act of compassion (This concept made it into the final draft of DOTF and the 1st draft of TROS).
* Abrams had seen Kylo as a tragic villain and wanted to tell a dark what-if story to the redemption of Vader. Ben Solo would have always been redeemed, but only through death.
* Finn had likewise been a subject of controversy. Abrams wanted John Boyega to play Finn. Alan Horn, as well as additional Disney Producers, saw that as a further risk. Horn pushing for an "Ansel Elgort" type.
* Finn being a Jedi was also something Disney producers thought was "Too much" if John Boyega was cast. Abrams was forced to water down that subplot in TFA.
* Horn was the most vocal against a romance between Finn and Rey. "Risk" factor playing a big part.
* Abrams would eventually ask to set up a romance between Poe and Finn when Disney requested him to not go forward with Finn and Rey, which had been refused as well.
* Lucasfilm asked Abrams to set up a romance between Poe and Rey, Abrams refused.
* To sum it up,Abrams was not on the same page with TPTB.
* Rian was far more helpful with Lucasfilm. Working with them instead of against them.
* Frankly, this turned out to be a mistake for Rian due to Lucasfilm being indecisive (obviously).
* Stories were always being changed.
* Abrams had pushed for a more traditional ending to the trilogy, Luke Skywalker living past the end of the sequels, instructing a new generation and his offspring.
* Lucasfilm wanted Star Wars to move passed the Skywalkers - pushing for them to be retired.
* Rian was less concerned with the beginning or ending, rather what he could do with his chapter. Lucasfilm gave him creative control. Just as long as he took their notes.
* Rian's film had gone under re-shoots as well. Some changes. Examples: Crait being moved to the ending. Holdo going from a Senator to Rebel. Less romantic undertones between Rey and Kylo.
* Colin, unfortunately, was left to pick up the remains of the comprised Abrams chapter and Rian's self-contained chapter. After many rewrites of the DOTF script, Colin and Lucasfilm parted ways.
* Jack Thorne wrote an additional draft to IX. It was deemed unusable as well.
* There was only one ending where Kylo lived. It was pitched after Colin's departure and before Abrams returned. (The script went nowhere.)
* Enter the return of Abrams, as well as the same conflicts from 2014 - 2015.
* Abrams had pitched a two-part film. Part one to cover the aftermath of TLJ and establish his narrative. Part 2 as the closure. (Disney said no, clearly).
* The Rise of Skywalker was a mess of different rewrites.
* The plot details for TROS provided to Jedipaxis was not the original story of the film. Rather just one of the many rewrites that script had undergone.
* The earliest completed script for IX under Abrams and Terrio had ended up a hybrid of TROS and DOTF. One of the working titles for this script had been named "**Heirs to the Force**".
* Rose had a key role in saving the day by altering a communication jammer the First Order used to keep the galaxy in the dark. This message spread across the galaxy would have been Leia's call for help from TLJ.
* Rey had learned she was Vader's granddaughter and reconciled her past with Luke.Finn had staged a stormtrooper rebellion after finding a long-lost sibling.
* Poe was made the leader of the Resistance while Hux would have been made Grand Marshall of the First Order as kylo's right hand man.
* Kylo would have sought to reform the galaxy, but found peace in the end and passed on.
* This story was scrapped before/during principal photography. Some stayed in. Some was changed during film.
* Disney and Lucasfilm disagreed with Abrams finale. Felt that it needed a villain with a bigger audience presence than Kylo or Hux. Expressing regret that Snoke had been killed off, but not wanting to bring him back.
* Abrams had faith that Adam Driver and Domhnall Gleeson would be more than enough and that both men would turn in a grand performance. Disney did not want to hear it. They pushed Palpatine onto Kathy who was forced to push him onto Abrams.
* Abrams played ball with Palpatine yet every week on production there were new notes from Disney or Lucasfilm. Eventually, Abrams shot two movies. His vision and Disney/Lucasfilm's. I'll give you a guess on which one got a theatrical release...it wasn't the one with Matt Smith.
* The cast was disappointed in the end. Boyega and Driver feeling the most robbed due to the story changes. They had been excited to film scenes together for the first sine since TFA.
* I feel for Kelly Marie Tran and Naomi Ackie. It's hard enough for woman of color in the industry. Getting their scenes cut wasn't something Abrams or Kathy wanted.

**Some closing comments:**

Is there a JJ cut? Still perplexed on why everyone is calling it a "JJ Cut". Calling it "Abrams Cut" seems more traditional.

The answer is: *Yes* and **no**.

There is an assembly cut of what Abrams filmed before re-shoots took place, it resembles his original vision. It needs some work and likely some re-shoots. Only a lunatic would attempt to fund it though.

Is there a Lucas cut? No. Abrams had gone to Lucas, like he had gone to all the other directors, and got their input on IX. That's it. Lucas did not ghost direct IX. He gave his input on the initial script Abrams and Terrio worked on.

Differences between the theatrical and Abrams cut of TROS?

* Matt Smith, for one.
* The runtime would be close to 4 hours.
* Palpatine's role constantly changed. From dark spirit to possession to eventually rescued zombie clone. Original role was just a cameo for the fans as it was in DOTF.
* Ray's parents had been Luke and a "force archaeologist" who found Anakin's lightsaber after the events of the OT but before the ST. We never learn her name in this story.
* Kylo and Rey's relationship was more tragic. Rey wanting to put him out of his misery and Kylo wanting to be free.
* There was a scene of of Kylo saving goodbye to Leia. Giving closure to mother and son.
* Jannah had been Finn's sister (I'm told this is still on the table for future stories). They were separated when they were kidnapped. Their last names were once Galfridian.
* Much of Rose's subplot was dedicated to figuring out how to outsmart the First Order.
* Rose and Jannah had a third act subplot of converting the jammer into the beacon to alert the galaxy for the final battle. They become close.
* Pryde originally sold out the First Order to the Resistance. The oldest of the old guard tired of following children. Hux and Kylo work together to find out who the spy is by leaking false information. Hux kills Pryde.
* Courscant was a key world for conflict between the First Order and Resistance.
* Several flashbacks to Luke's life before the sequels. Luke had been looking for Mortis through Ahch-To.
* Luke and Kylo would have a proper duel on Mortis. This scene was based off their confrontation in DOTF.
* There were hints to Poe's romantic interest in Finn, yet in the end, he gives his blessings to Finn and Rey.
* Poe would end up convincing bounty hunter Zorii to aide the fight with her fellow bounty hunters. The two become mutually interested in the other.
* Final battle for the Resistance takes place over a giant docking bay with the First Order fleet on Courscant.
* Finn leads the assault to the beacon that will call the cavalry with Rose and Jannah. He would have been wielding a green lightsaber. Unknown if it was Luke's lightsaber or an Abrams Deus ex Machina.
* The message to the galaxy is Leia's call to help from The Last Jedi that BB-8 recorded.
* Sith Troopers are actually clones mixed with Phasma's DNA.
* Finn leads a stormtrooper rebellion of normal stormtroopers vs Sith stormtroopers.
* Rey offers Kylo her hand for redemption. A parallel/contrast to his offering in TLJ. Kylo rejects it. He thanks her for caring.
* Rey and Kylo have their final battle. Knights of Ren would help. Finn arrives to fight them and Kylo with Rey.
* Knights of Ren would be killed. Kylo accept his defeat and return to the light as he dies.
* Ben would have appeared as a force ghost with his mother and made amends to Rey silently.
* Anakin's force ghost would have appeared with the younger force ghosts of Luke and Leia to say goodbye forever.
* The Resistance gang would have celebrated on Tatooine at the Lars homestead. Finn and Rey watching the sunrise hand in hand with Jannah, Rose, Poe, Zorii, Chewie, and the droids.

**Is the Abrams cut better?**

It's a more coherent story than the theatrical release, but its also filled with a lot of Abrams quality writing. If you don't like JJ Abrams films. This wouldn't make you a fan of Abrams or IX. Lucasfilm had thought it leaned to heavily on the "Fan Service".

**Will the Abrams cut ever actually get released?**

Not sure. Heard some talks about it, but Bob Chapek has had his hands full and is rather cheap. I also don't see a high fan campaign for this ever happening like the Snyder Cut.

**My final thoughts**

Personally, I favored Colin's ending chapter with DOTF more. IMHO he got Star Wars the best. (Should have given him the trilogy.) But that's just my own personal 2 cents.

They'll be more leaks coming. Maybe from me. Maybe not. I can't provide much personal info without putting my self at risk. Take this however you want. I'm attempting to get this out for the sake of the truth. MTFBWY

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That post above prompted me to check out news about Treverrow's original plan for Duel of the Fates, and some of the concept artwork looked epic. Honestly speaking, Disney fucked it by not having one person in charge guiding the new trilogy like Feige. Oh well. I guess we can just think of our own better final film based on the state of play at the end of tLJ and just pretend that tRoS never happened.

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If any of that post is true, Abrams’ original idea to have Luke as Rey’s dad is spectacularly lame and predictable. It would mean that Rey’s backstory is exactly the same as Luke’s, even down to her being abandoned on a desert planet and having her destiny revealed by a cheeky droid that crashlands nearby and is picked up by scavengers. 

 

Most of that post seems like fannish mythmaking. Like, there’s a four hour cut of the Rise of Skywalker out there, but Disney refused to release it as it was just too focused on giving the true Star Wars fans what they want. It feels like someone’s trying to get #releasetheJJcut trending. 

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1 hour ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

* Finn being a Jedi was also something Disney producers thought was "Too much" if John Boyega was cast. Abrams was forced to water down that subplot in TFA.
* Horn was the most vocal against a romance between Finn and Rey. "Risk" factor playing a big part.

 

Is there any way to read this other than them being massively racist?

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It's that kind of thing that makes me think it's untrue, to be honest. It all seems to accord a bit too neatly with a lot of the more common fan complaints about the series, i.e. Finn should have been a Jedi, etc. The film you didn't get to see is going to seem better than the one you did, and this feels like it's trying to paint a picture of this lost film that would have included all the stuff you personally love about Star Wars and none of the stuff you don't, and made everything alright again.

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Yes, it's bollocks, mostly stuff we knew from existing sources (i.e Crait being moved to the end of the film), and some fan-pandering fake insider stuff like all these stupid Snyder cut bullshit conspiracy things are.

 

The bit about Coruscant having a big role is the giveaway, the people who really didn't like Disney Star Wars are heavily prequel fans, so all of these sorts of posts has to have one bit where they namedrop or insist that something from the prequels would feature heavily but evil Disney stopped it. It's never actually something that would fix the problems of the film, just "no it needs to be my flavour of nostalgia instead".

 

(That Disney was completely uninterested in any pandering to that audience was quite funny tbh).

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2 hours ago, K said:

It feels like someone’s trying to get #releasetheJJcut trending. 

 

Based on the below comment, it would be #ReleaseTheAbramsCut!

 

Quote

Still perplexed on why everyone is calling it a "JJ Cut". Calling it "Abrams Cut" seems more traditional.

 

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Star Wars fans, what's the latest thinking/speculation/rumours about how Thrawn will be tackled in live action?

I was a ^big^ fan of the original Thrawn trilogy books and have read a couple of the new canon stuff with him which I am much less keen on. 

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2 hours ago, Talvalin said:

Not to mention the homophobia of not allowing a romance between Finn and Poe. If all of that is even remotely true, then fuck Disney.

 

This doesn't surprise me at all, you still have major networks not airing the gay wedding episode of Steven Wonderful and the Creator of Korra only being allowed to allude to the kiss between the two female leads.

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23 minutes ago, Delargey said:

 

This doesn't surprise me at all, you still have major networks not airing the gay wedding episode of Steven Wonderful and the Creator of Korra only being allowed to allude to the kiss between the two female leads.

 

Yeah I think that list is bollocks. But the race and homosexuality stuff is very true regardless of that list being bobbins. See Finn being reduced to a Where's Wally tiny figure (if he's even there to start with) in any publicity materials Disney released in China. Disney like to make a big song and dance about how progressive they are but when it comes to homosexuality, you're talking stuff like them having two men dance together in the background at the end of Beauty and the Beast or two female extras having a chaste kiss at the end of Rise of Skywaler (which was promptly cut out of the versions released in various countries).

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3 hours ago, Talvalin said:

That post above prompted me to check out news about Treverrow's original plan for Duel of the Fates, and some of the concept artwork looked epic. Honestly speaking, Disney fucked it by not having one person in charge guiding the new trilogy like Feige. Oh well. I guess we can just think of our own better final film based on the state of play at the end of tLJ and just pretend that tRoS never happened.

Can I pretend tLJ never happened as well? Actually, come to think of it, can I also pretend tFA didn't happen either?

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3 hours ago, K said:

Most of that post seems like fannish mythmaking. Like, there’s a four hour cut of the Rise of Skywalker out there, but Disney refused to release it as it was just too focused on giving the true Star Wars fans what they want. It feels like someone’s trying to get #releasetheJJcut trending. 

 

The Rise of Skywalker smells of a film that has been cobbled together by a corporate committee to a deadline.

 

If you don't think several much longer versions of that film exist (without effects) you may want to read up on how movies are edited. It feels rushed for a reason.

 

And the points above don't say its better - just that it exists with a slightly more coherent narrative. Which frankly isn't a very high bar.

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I don't think JJ has ever even made any complaints about the released version not being what his true vision was?

This is all toxic fan base nonsense. Even if we got every bit of TROS that had ever been filmed it still wouldn't magically become a good film. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JPL said:

Can I pretend tLJ never happened as well? Actually, come to think of it, can I also pretend tFA didn't happen either?

You can pretend as much as you like. I still like some of the non-canon books. Them not being canon doesn't change that (for me at least). 

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25 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I don't think JJ has ever even made any complaints about the released version not being what his true vision was?

This is all toxic fan base nonsense. Even if we got every bit of TROS that had ever been filmed it still wouldn't magically become a good film. 

 

 

Do you think he could, even if he wanted to? Apart from the fact it would be highly unprofessional, the SW sequels/working with Disney will be NDA'ed upto the wazzo.

 

These films are products, created by a corporation.

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19 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

You can pretend as much as you like. I still like some of the non-canon books. Them not being canon doesn't change that (for me at least). 

I was only joking. I don’t like the films, but I’ve got no problem with them existing as long as they’ve learnt from their mistakes and the next trilogy is better for it.

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26 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

Do you think he could, even if he wanted to? Apart from the fact it would be highly unprofessional, the SW sequels/working with Disney will be NDA'ed upto the wazzo.

 

These films are products, created by a corporation.

I doubt he could speak freely without it being a career risk. But I still don't think there is a mythical cut of this film that makes it better than the theatrical release in any substantial way.

 

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20 minutes ago, JPL said:

I was only joking. I don’t like the films, but I’ve got no problem with them existing as long as they’ve learnt from their mistakes and the next trilogy is better for it.

Yeah I wasn't trying to be snarky. I agree with that philosophy. I'll always watch a new Star Wars film. 

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1 hour ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Yeah I wasn't trying to be snarky. I agree with that philosophy. I'll always watch a new Star Wars film. 

Exactly. I think the Star Wars universe and everything in it is ripe for some amazing stories, as seen in The Mandalorian, although with that being a series it hasn’t got the epic vibe of the films. Basically, I can’t wait for the next trilogy.

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2 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

 I still don't think there is a mythical cut of this film that makes it better than the theatrical release in any substantial way.

 

No-one, at any point, has said there is. Just that a longer cut exists that has differences.

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