Football Thread 2012/13

[sith]

I think it was a bit of both to be honest. Could have been a yellow, but a red was always a risk.

I see Ricky Lambert doing challenges like that all the time.

Never, ever a red card. Arbeloa's challenge in the first-half was worse.

[SaintM]

I don't.

It still looks like a red.

[El Pibe]

Keano agrees.

[Pat Mustard]

If the Madrid player didn't jump Nani could have killed him!

[Silent Runner]

Roy Keane the voice of reason, what's happening here?

[squirtle]

Was it dangerous play? Yes it was. Still unlucky to go off.

[humdrum]

Was it dangerous play? Yes it was. Still unlucky to go off.

erm.. if it was dangerous play. then his not unlucky to go off.

[Lucky]

Roy Keane was funny just then, to Southgate "what do you mean Nani hasn't seen the Madrid player? Does he not know there are other players on the pitch?"

[Shevchenko]

It was 50/50.

But I think the shocking thing was that everybody was expecting yellow, whilst the ref was waiting for Nani to get up. And then suddenly gives a red, which we rarely see.

[El Pibe]

I didn't realise Dixon had switched to ITV. Desperate to get away from Lawrenson I guess?

[SaintM]

I thought that the united players let the premiership down by not really going after the ref like Chelsea did a few years back.

Ferdinand did some nice clapping in the refs face, but then let himself down by shaking hands with them. Drogba would have nutted him.

[El Pibe]

Right, well it's been fun but I'm going to head out for some Gazprom now!

[Shevchenko]

I thought that the united players let the premiership down by not really going after the ref like Chelsea did a few years back.

Ferdinand did some nice clapping in the refs face, but then let himself down by shaking hands with them. Drogba would have nutted him.

It is remarkable how many times English teams have had players sent off especially against Spanish teams. Or have had decisions go against them.

You mentioned Chelsea a few years back and of course Arsenal with Van Persie against Barcelona a few seasons back.

[Stig]

After seeing te replay then, I agree it's not a red. He doesn't even know the player is coming.

[SaintM]

After seeing te replay then, I agree it's not a red. He doesn't even know the player is coming.

It does not matter whether he knew or not.

[Plissken]

I think it was a bad decision, if not to the letter of the law a wrong one. If you are going to call the game to the absolute letter of the law, then do it for 90 minutes, not 30 seconds.

[JamesTW]

That Madrid goal disallowed for nothing and the handball on the line were the worst decisions, don't know why Ferguson was so pissed off tbh

[Miner Willy]

brilliant from townsend. he doesn't think you can give a penalty for a players putting his hands behind his back clearly trying to avoid any accidental contact, but thinks that you defiantly can't give a penalty at the other end against rafel when his got his arms out in an almost superman like dive!,

fuck off.

Not that I'd ever want to be mistaken for defending Andy Townsend, but I'm loving the irony of humdrum of all people accusing someone else of one-eyed analysis of a football match. Please never change, Mattie.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

That Madrid goal disallowed for nothing and the handball on the line were the worst decisions, don't know why Ferguson was so pissed off tbh

Huh? They didn't contest it for a reason.

[JamesTW]

Huh? They didn't contest it for a reason.

I don't know why they didnt contest the handball, I said that to my dad when it was on

[feltmonkey]

i don't think you should be able to be sent off for an accidental collision. Nani was making an attempt to bring the ball down and didn't know the Madrid player was there. he had been our most dangerous player, too. it was such a strange decision the spectre of match-fixing rose guiltily to my mind. surely not, of course, but it just seemed so inexplicable.

and of course it decided the match. up until then Madrid hadn't really threatened, and weren't playing well. the United fans had cleverly stifled Ronaldo by making him all emotional, Ozil hadn't been as involved as he usually is, Higuine looked a shadow of his former self, and Welbeck was shadowing Alonso well. only De Maria was providing a threat. i'm not saying United would have definitely held out, or extended their lead, but we'll never know now.

two excellent goals by Madrid, it must be said. the only positive thing to come out of the evening is Ronaldo's hint that he might one day come back to United. "The future we never know, but the supporters here and the club are massive. At this moment I am very happy in Madrid and I want to be there."

[Naysonymous]

[Dayman]

That Madrid goal disallowed for nothing and the handball on the line were the worst decisions, don't know why Ferguson was so pissed off tbh

I negged you after having left the page open for ages and was really disappointed not to see at least -2

[bowser123]

I don't wanna see real win as Ramos celebrating would make me choke, but that Nani challenge was reckless and dangerous for me.

I'm sure there will be replays before long, but it looked pretty nasty to me.

A reckless challenge is punishable by a caution not a red.

Careless, reckless, using excessive force

“Careless” means that the player has shown a lack of attention or

consideration when making a challenge or that he acted without precaution.

• No further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless

“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the

danger to, or consequences for, his opponent.

• A player who plays in a reckless manner must be cautioned

“Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary

use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.

• A player who uses excessive force must be sent off

In regards to it being dangerous

Playing in a dangerous manner

Playing in a dangerous manner is defined as any action that, while

trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player

himself). It is committed with an opponent nearby and prevents the opponent

from playing the ball for fear of injury.

A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that, in the opinion of the

referee, it is not dangerous to an opponent.

Playing in a dangerous manner involves no physical contact between the

players. If there is physical contact, the action becomes an offence punishable

with a direct free kick or penalty kick. In the case of physical contact, the

referee should carefully consider the high probability that misconduct has also

been committed.

Disciplinary sanctions

• If a player plays in a dangerous manner in a “normal” challenge, the

referee should not take any disciplinary action. If the action is made with

obvious risk of injury, the referee should caution the player

• If a player denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity by playing in a

dangerous manner, the referee should send off the player

http://www.thefa.com...e---law-12.ashx

I think the Nani challenge is pretty much the definition of a reckless challenge, though I'd take slight issue with the fact he didn't disregard his opponent, he didn't even know he was there. If we accept it was dangerous, again the sanction is a caution.

It's a very similar challenge to this, which also saw red. However the red was over turned by the FA.

[Guest]

Wow. What match. Awful officiating though.

As you may have guessed I'm no Man U fan, and really enjoyed Alonso's little fist pump after the second goal.

But good lord that was a harsh sending off.

When the Barca keeper came out and punched Vidic in the head; why no penalty and sending off? A flying double fist to the head is far worse than an accidental foot to the torso.

On the flipside for Utd's goal RVP was offside. It was only marginal yet it was there. The linesman didn't pick that up.

Then the handball on the line from Raphael. That stopped a clear goal.

All in all, some poor officiating.

[JamesTW]

I negged you after having left the page open for ages and was really disappointed not to see at least -2

neg = water off a ducks back

[DC Lemon]

Roy Keane was funny just then, to Southgate "what do you mean Nani hasn't seen the Madrid player? Does he not know there are other players on the pitch?"

I always panic when Southgate dares to disagree with Keane.

Keane would have mauled any ref who gave that decision when he was on the pitch.

[toythatkills]

I don't think we can assume that "he didn't know he was there" just because his head was turned in those few seconds. Presumably he could use his ears or general spatial awareness to know that there was someone there.

Maybe he didn't, but I don't think we can assume.

[Ravern]

Completely neglecting the context of the position of the ball and the movement of the players. Otherwise hilariously witty.

There seems to be an awful lot of people (including on this forum, Guardian's MBM) who have decided to be contrary because being against the grain, as always, makes you appear fashionable and knowledgeable.

On the topic of dangerous play. All of FIFA's examples involve players nearly being kicked in the head.

Note that dangerous play also involves "prevents the opponent playing the ball through fear of injury".

Also note that "if the action is made with obvious risk of injury, the referee should caution the player". This seems the appropriate response in Nani's case. The only cited cause for a red card is if a goal scoring opportunity is prevented.

The only criteria under which this could be a sending off is violent conduct or serious foul play, if there is excessive force or brutality as part of violent conduct, or "endangering the safety of an opponent" as part of serious foul play. So all this "dangerous play" discussion is dramatically ill informed.

So never mind the facts eh? Just keep going against the grain.

[Dayman]

neg = water off a ducks back

Well clearly, I just wanted someone else to think you're a dope