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Performance Enhancing Drugs in Cycling and Other Sports


MalevolentPanda
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The thing about Sky / Team GB is that they must have been up to something.  But a lot of trusted names - including David Walsh, who spent years going after Armstrong before it was fashionable - spent plenty of time with them and found nothing.  And they had enough shitty individuals and fallouts for someone to turn on them but that hasn't happened either.

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Team GB & Team Sky always had the whiff of wrong 'uns dressed up in some fancy 'marginal gains' pants, this doesn't help that accusation. 

 

I know it doesn't take a lot to get the Aussies angry at Brits but they were never having that we went from winning nothing to dominating track cycling because we made the pedals 2g lighter and got a more aerodynamic seat post.

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I always figured that the track cycling stuff was because Brailsford was pushing the technical rules as far as possible similar to F1.  Backed by stuff like "all equipment must be commercially available", "well you can buy it.  On a Tuesday.  In Milton Keynes.  From this one shop.  Between 9am and 9.03am.  In February.  If it's raining.  Oh, you went there?  Owner must been ill that day and not gone into work."

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One of the guys on the Cycling Podcast raised an interesting point in this weeks episode. Why didn't Brailsford/Team Sky/GB cycling put the same level of rigour into investigating the testosterone patches as they did in the Chris Froome salbutamol case if there was nothing to hide and no wrong doing?

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  • 2 months later...

 

In short, an athlete decides to disrupt her carefully planned diet in an Olympic year to go eat a dodgy burrito from a Mexican van.  Uh huh.  Cheating, with a dose of added racism.

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ah, the poisoned pork defence, that's been used several times before hasn't it, seem to recall in cycling and Tyson Fury

 

I'm at the point where I assume sport is just riddled with it, including football, the rewards are too big for it not to be. Does anybody believe Bolt was clean by the way ?

 

 

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I became certain, Shelby was lying when she claimed she’d never heard of nandrolone. Now, I’m not a pro athlete and don’t know the names of many steroids but even I’ve heard of nandrolone. 

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23 hours ago, Plissken said:

 

In short, an athlete decides to disrupt her carefully planned diet in an Olympic year to go eat a dodgy burrito from a Mexican van.  Uh huh.  Cheating, with a dose of added racism.

 

The Canelo special.

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It wasn't pork in cycling, it was the steak that Bert Contador had.

 

I was talking to someone who said they are 100% certain Bolt was at it. I'd like to think not - I mean he has a unique physique compared to every other sprinter - but it's difficult to rationalise.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Let everyone take anything.  Hey presto, level playing field.

 

I seriously don't get it.    All the money spent on regulating could be used elsewhere and you've removed all of the suspicion and accusations.  

 

No one thinks that any sport is clean anyway.

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They are banned because a) they are inevitably dangerous to use, b) they give an unfair advantage at an international level to countries that can afford the testing labs and the pharmaceuticals. You think that Jamaica would ever be able to compete with the USA ever again at 100m if they started doping their best athletes? And at that point what are we watching anymore? Not sport but science experiments.

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1 hour ago, ChewMagma said:

They are banned because a) they are inevitably dangerous to use, b) they give an unfair advantage at an international level to countries that can afford the testing labs and the pharmaceuticals. You think that Jamaica would ever be able to compete with the USA ever again at 100m if they started doping their best athletes? And at that point what are we watching anymore? Not sport but science experiments.

Ignoring the Jamaica point :D

 

But there's a fundamental moral and ethical problem with getting people to take part in non-controlled non-random pump-them-full-of-whatever drug trials for money. And if it's the only way they can compete, some of them will. And some will get seriously ill and die.

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Anyone doubting the health risk potential should read about EPO era cyclists having to set alarms to get up in the night to check their haematocrit levels weren't going to mean their hearts literally couldn't pump the blood round their body because it was too thick. 

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21 minutes ago, footle said:

Ignoring the Jamaica point :D

 

But there's a fundamental moral and ethical problem with getting people to take part in non-controlled non-random pump-them-full-of-whatever drug trials for money. And if it's the only way they can compete, some of them will. And some will get seriously ill and die.

 

Admittedly I know absolute jackshit about track and field so that is probably a stupid comparison, just substitute whatever sport comparison makes sense, you understand what I mean!

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7 minutes ago, MalevolentPanda said:

Anyone doubting the health risk potential should read about EPO era cyclists having to set alarms to get up in the night to check their haematocrit levels weren't going to mean their hearts literally couldn't pump the blood round their body because it was too thick. 

 

This is exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote that.

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It's not even a level playing field, whatever that might mean, as different athletes respond differently to PEDs. In the EPO era you were looking for athletes who would respond best. Like when the authorities placed a limit on their red blood cell count to keep things a bit safer, there was a big advantage in being someone who started out with a relatively low level of red blood cells, and then doping yourself like crazy to be just under the limit, and then you'd be the cyclist who'd have gained the biggest benefit from EPO.

 

The hope now is not that you stop all doping, but that you reduce the amount of benefit you can get from it, so it's at least possible for someone to compete without risking their health.

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6 hours ago, ChewMagma said:

They are banned because a) they are inevitably dangerous to use, b) they give an unfair advantage at an international level to countries that can afford the testing labs and the pharmaceuticals. You think that Jamaica would ever be able to compete with the USA ever again at 100m if they started doping their best athletes? And at that point what are we watching anymore? Not sport but science experiments.

 

Not fine: drugs

Fine : being able to afford extended training at altitude to mimic the impact of drugs

Fine : $75,000 pressurised egg that mimics the impact of drugs

Fine : Equipment that requires billions of dollars of investment that radically improves performance and mimics the impact of drugs

 

I mean there's lots of good reasons to ban drugs, but spare me the level playing field bullshit. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ChewMagma said:

Why do you have to be so belligerent @kensei ?

 

Apologies. Probably shouldn't type while grumpy at work. Was meant to be slightly indignant rather than vicious. 

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I get what you are saying, rich nations already have a huge advantage in many sports because of the money they can throw into training facilities etc, but a) I don't know what you can realistically do about that or where you draw the line on it, b) that isn't an argument to allow the playing field to become even more unfair. PEDs are at least one aspect of fairness in sport that you can take concrete action against.

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You could shut down some of the technological stuff, and the worst excesses have been curbedon swimming. But it is inherently linked to capitalism so you are screwed with that regard. 

 

The hour cycling record had to be done on a bike effectively the same as the one that set the record in the 70s until 2014. No one beat it, and think its a useful correction to nutrition and training and the like as being big factors. 

 

I think there's a very strong health argument for banning drugs. People talking then don't fully understand the long term consequences and are incentivises to talk risks. But I think any concept of fairness in sport is dead at best, and a cruel joke at worst. 

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