Performance Enhancing Drugs in Cycling and Other Sports

[MalevolentPanda]

Personally I think he outed himself as a class A cunt with his involvement in the harassment of Lemond. You know the guy that got abused for always saying he knew Armstrong doped.

Yep.

And Simeoni.

And Betsy and Frank Andreu.

And Hamilton.

How much of a boost are we talking that these drugs give you? Enough to win the Tour de France I suppose must be a fair boost!

A huge boost. I don't know anything like as much about doping in other sports but as far as cycling goes I don't really agree with Crispin's analysis. There's such a direct link between haematocrit and therefore oxygen carrying capacity and ability to climb a mountain faster that the difference is huge when you're talking about EPO and blood doping. There's plenty of evidence that the gap is huge when you compare similar climbs now to the late 90s.

[whizzo]

You mean the only reason apart from missing the lower half of both of his legs, and all the assorted muscles & extremities that go with them?

Which is what the Paralypics are for.

[Dudley]

You mean the only reason apart from missing the lower half of both of his legs, and all the assorted muscles & extremities that go with them?

Yes he wouldn't be competitive without them thanks to an accident of birth.

But then neither would I, I wasn't born with the ability to be a world class sprinter either.

It's a mechanical aid. You might as well let me enter on my bike.

[morcs]

It's a mechanical aid. You might as well let me enter on my bike.

I assume there's nothing stopping the others chopping their legs off and using blades instead, so what's the problem?

[probeater]

That overzealous parents may chop of their children's feet to make them more competitive? In the same respect there's nothing stopping the other athletes taking performance drugs either.

[morcs]

There is if they're banned.

The able bodied atheletes have a choice between legs and blades, Pistorius doesn't, how is he the one with the unfair advantage?

[sir stiff_one]

Because he has technologically advanced metal legs.

[Pandy]

Metal or carbon fibre these days? Wouldn't they potentially weigh less than real legs too?

[Luke]

Cyborg Olympics would be even more awesome than maxed-out-on-PEDs Olympics.

[choddo]

Metal or carbon fibre these days? Wouldn't they potentially weigh less than real legs too?

Yeah and be much less effective. They're carbon fibre.

[ilpostino]

The noose is tightening around Lance's neck:

http://msn.foxsports...olations-071012

Lance's associates get lifetime bans

Three associates of Lance Armstrong have received lifetime bans for doping violations, the US Anti-Doping Agency announced Tuesday.

Team doctor Luis Garcia del Moral, team consulting doctor Michele Ferrari and trainer Jose "Pepe" Martí trafficked, encouraged the use of and administered performance-enhancing drugs while part of the US Postal Service team, USADA said in a news release.

Armstrong won six of his seven Tour de France titles as a member of the USPS team.

"The objective of USADA's investigation into the sport of cycling is to protect the rights of clean athletes by ridding the sport of those in the system, whether coach, doctor, trainer, or manager who abuses their influence by encouraging, coercing or assisting athletes in cheating through the use of dangerous performance-enhancing drugs," USADA CEO Travis Tygart said in a statement. "When USADA has information about the existence of a sophisticated, far-reaching doping conspiracy, it is our duty under the established rules to conduct a thorough, fair investigation to uncover the truth."

USADA had already sought a ban of Armstrong, who has until Saturday to respond to allegations that he led a conspiracy to use performance-enhancing drugs from 1998 to 2010.

Armstrong, who could lose some or all of his Tour de France titles, has denied the allegations.

Following the precedent it set in its allegations against Armstrong in June, USADA did not detail how it came about the evidence it had against del Moral, Ferrari or Martí. However, USADA’s claims against the three are lengthy:

• Del Moral, the USPS team physician from 1998 to 2003, allegedly administered blood transfusions to boost a rider’s endurance, gave saline solutions to riders to help avoid detection of drug use and provided a number of banned drugs, including endurance-boosting erythropoietin (EPO) and testosterone.

• Ferrari, a consulting doctor for riders on the USPS team and later Discovery Channel team, is accused of developing “a distinctive mixture of testosterone and olive oil” (known as "the oil") to assist with recovery, advising riders to use EPO and creating doping schedules to help riders avoid failing a drug test.

• Martí, a trainer for the USPS and Discovery Channel team from 1999 to 2007, “delivered performance-enhancing drugs, including EPO, testosterone, human growth hormone (HGH) and cortisone” from his native Spain to riders living, competing or training elsewhere in Europe, according to USADA. Marti also allegedly assisted injections of EPO, saline and blood transfusions.

“Permanently banning these individuals from sport is a powerful statement that protects the current and next generation of athletes from their influence, and preserves the integrity of future competition,” Tygart said.

Armstrong filed a lawsuit in federal court Monday aimed at blocking USADA’s actions against him. The suit, however, was dismissed within hours as US District Court Judge Sam Sparks wrote that the court would not “indulge Armstrong's desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement or vilification” of USADA.

Armstrong’s lawyers reportedly plan to amend the lawsuit and resubmit it.

[choddo]

They can appeal that to the TAS presumably?

[Stoikovich]

Cyborg Olympics would be even more awesome than maxed-out-on-PEDs Olympics.

We clearly need

a) 'normals' Olympics

b) Anything goes with drugs Olympics

c) Cyborg Olympics

d) Paralympics

They could hold one each year. Everyone's happy, athletic achievements can be recorded and compared fairly, and we get some excellent sports to veg out on the sofa with every summer

[choddo]

I see Brailsford is having their doc's past looked into a bit more closely after the recent comments about his time at Rabobank.

Better late than never I suppose.

[ras el hanout]

I agree with this.

Wiggin's reaction to the suggestion he was on drugs was odd.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx

[Graham S]

I agree with this.

Wiggin's reaction to the suggestion he was on drugs was odd.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx

Is it really though? It's just a reaction in a press conference, even if you're not supposed to react like that and go off message for a bit. It's easy enough to wind people up on an Internet forum to make them say stuff in the heat of the moment, never mind when you've got all the pressure of leading the TdF. And if Wiggins has a problem with this Kimmage guy, it seems a bit off to extrapolate that to mean he's doping.

The stuff about hiring ex-dopers onto the team is more serious.

[ras el hanout]

Is it really though? It's just a reaction in a press conference, even if you're not supposed to react like that and go off message for a bit. It's easy enough to wind people up on an Internet forum to make them say stuff in the heat of the moment, never mind when you've got all the pressure of leading the TdF. And if Wiggins has a problem with this Kimmage guy, it seems a bit off to extrapolate that to mean he's doping.

The stuff about hiring ex-dopers onto the team is more serious.

It really is odd I think. Wiggins, big vocal anti-doper, you know? Surely he'd expect a nice polite question about doping? I mean, surely you'd take it as a compliment if you weren't on drugs?

Your performances are so good as to seem unnatural. How would that make you angry if you weren't on drugs?

You'd really "*chuckle* thanks, but I guess for a while there's always going to be an air of suspicion but all we can do is to clean the image of the sport by having clean riders win it."

Not "You fucking cunts, you've never done anything, blah blah blah."

It's just, to me, a very unnatural reaction. I did a post about it on my hit internet blog but deleted it but it's like saying to a woman who lost weight "You've lost weight, do you have bowel cancer?"

They'd be happy you'd noticed they'd lost weight. They wouldn't take offence to the cancer bit. Unless they had bowel cancer.

[Plissken]

It isn't an unnatural reaction. Since when did anonymous bloggers and tweeters get elevated to all-knowing sages about cycling (or, well, anything)? That is what he was reacting to - it is one thing defending yourself against a journalist and completely another when lancefan69 tweets "Wiggo is all doped, my mate knows someone who sez so must be true. #allatit"

[ras el hanout]

It isn't an unnatural reaction. Since when did anonymous bloggers and tweeters get elevated to all-knowing sages about cycling (or, well, anything)? That is what he was reacting to - it is one thing defending yourself against a journalist and completely another when lancefan69 tweets "Wiggo is all doped, my mate knows someone who sez so must be true. #allatit"

Yeah, but that's not what happened. He did it in a press conference. It really is an unnatural reaction for somebody who's always been quick to point the finger.

[Plissken]

Yeah, but that's not what happened. He did it in a press conference. It really is an unnatural reaction for somebody who's always been quick to point the finger.

The question was about "people on the internet". I can't find the exact text, but the Graun mentioned "comparisons being made on the internet between Sky and US Postal". It wasn't coming from L'Equipe, or "proper" journalists.

Also, it was asked at the very first press conference after he had got the yellow jersey - and I haven't seen any reports of the question being asked of Cancellera. Got to be pissed off that when you achieve a life ambition after being so outspoken against doping, one of the first things you are told is "people think you are doping". It is like Mark Webber walking into the press conference after the British GP and being asked "did you only win because Alonsos tyres went off and Seb Vettel had a bad day?"

[ras el hanout]

The question was about "people on the internet". I can't find the exact text, but the Graun mentioned "comparisons being made on the internet between Sky and US Postal". It wasn't coming from L'Equipe, or "proper" journalists.

Also, it was asked at the very first press conference after he had got the yellow jersey - and I haven't seen any reports of the question being asked of Cancellera. Got to be pissed off that when you achieve a life ambition after being so outspoken against doping, one of the first things you are told is "people think you are doping". It is like Mark Webber walking into the press conference after the British GP and being asked "did you only win because Alonsos tyres went off and Seb Vettel had a bad day?"

No, it's not, it's like saying to Webber "you went so fast are you cheating?" If he wasn't cheating he wouldn't get angry. He'd laugh it off.

Now it's quite possible that Wiggins knew he'd be asked about doping and had built it up. Thought about how best to answer it to convince people he was clean. Maybe he thought when asked and he was blaise it might sound suspicious so he decided, when asked, to explode. To me it was a very odd reaction.

[Dudley]

Of course chances are he is doping, just in a way they can't catch yet.

[Graham S]

I don't know, people without our years of full-time experience of dealing with dickheads on the Internet often seem to get a bit shouty in this situation. I'd have thought you (edit: ramone) above all would recognise a man getting trolled and then biting.

[ras el hanout]

I don't know, people without our years of full-time experience of dealing with dickheads on the Internet often seem to get a bit shouty in this situation. I'd have thought you (edit: ramone) above all would recognise a man getting trolled and then biting.

Graham, you're so great a being in the tech team, you got a computer programme helping you or something?

*ducks*

[ras el hanout]

Actually, I just remembered. Wiggins couldn't possibly be cheating. He's British.

Some Russian track star suddenly turned up at 30 capable of winning the Tour they'd be big bushy eyebrows raised everywhere.

Of course I'm not suggesting Wiggins is on drugs - unless it is a brand new one - but his reaction to the question was odd.

[Throbin Hood]

Armstrong did reply to the USADA stuff by submitting an 80 page document in support of a restraining order against the USADA and getting the case dismissed. The 3 judge panel dismissed it almost without reading it telling him to resubmit it with just legal stuff not a load of PR bullshit. He did that and it is now 25 pages. Part of it is that all the witnesses for the USADA are anonymous, they say to prevent witness tampering / intimidation.

[Plissken]

Actually, I just remembered. Wiggins couldn't possibly be cheating. He's British.

Some Russian track star suddenly turned up at 30 capable of winning the Tour they'd be big bushy eyebrows raised everywhere.

I know. Who would have a thought a man with Olympic Time Trialling medals would be quite good at time trialling? WHo would have thought that a man who finished 4th in the TdF would be quite good at the TdF? Who would have thought that a team run by a man who organised GB to incredible medal hauls at the last two Olympics would be quite good at organising a team to win not only the TdF but several other high profile events when backed by a huge amount of money?

[Graham S]

Actually, I just remembered. Wiggins couldn't possibly be cheating. He's British.

Some Russian track star suddenly turned up at 30 capable of winning the Tour they'd be big bushy eyebrows raised everywhere.

Of course I'm not suggesting Wiggins is on drugs - unless it is a brand new one - but his reaction to the question was odd.

Is Wiggins improvement unlikely? I don't follow it closely enough, but he was saying stuff today about how he's not some shit cyclist out of nowhere, and discussing his record, which sounded good to me.

[ras el hanout]

I know. Who would have a thought a man with Olympic Time Trialling medals would be quite good at time trialling? WHo would have thought that a man who finished 4th in the TdF would be quite good at the TdF? Who would have thought that a team run by a man who organised GB to incredible medal hauls at the last two Olympics would be quite good at organising a team to win not only the TdF but several other high profile events when backed by a huge amount of money?

He wasn't quite good at the Tour de France before he finished 4th at the age of 29. He sort of just turned up capable of doing well, like Bjarne Riis did.

How many times did Boardman win the Tour btw? Track star. Big French team. A load of science behind him?

Let's just agree his reaction was fucked up.

[ras el hanout]

Is Wiggins improvement unlikely? I don't follow it closely enough, but he was saying stuff today about how he's not some shit cyclist out of nowhere, and discussing his record, which sounded good to me.

What was his record? Apart from time trials I don't think he'd done anything at all on the road before the 2009 Tour de France (aged 29 or 30)

He was 71st in the Tour of Italy and then, after that, 5th in that year's Tour de France, a much harder event.

It's sort of suspicious.