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Performance Enhancing Drugs in Cycling and Other Sports

MalevolentPanda

By MalevolentPanda
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Luke

Luke

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Posted

It's just, to me, a very unnatural reaction. I did a post about it on my hit internet blog but deleted it but it's like saying to a woman who lost weight "You've lost weight, do you have bowel cancer?"

I don't think it's an unnatural reaction at all.

I also don't think your analogy is right.

It's more like someone saying to a woman who lost weight "wow, you've lost a load of weight, what did you do? I bet you got one of those gastric bands, didn't you? because there's no fucking way you could have lost all that weight without one, you lazy fat cunt, hahahahahahaha!". Except, not actually saying it to her face, but just leaving an anonymous note on her desk.

I think the woman would then probably stand up in the office and say "thanks, whichever prick left this note on my desk, but no, I haven't had a gastric band, I've been going to the gym and eating caveman food for the last 6th months, and it was hard work and a big effort, so fuck you you fucking fuck!".

Because, you know, I don't think it unnatural at all to get pissed off when you've put a lot of hard work and effort into something, and then some anonymous person comes along and just accuses you of cheating.

In fact, I'd think it would be a lot more unnatural if the woman was to stand up and say "oh, why thank you whichever kind person thought I'd had a gastric band, I guess it is unbelievable how much weight I've lost, but no, I've not had one, it was all down to hard work on my part, I know, hard to believe, right?".

But then I guess different people react differently.

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Graham S

Graham S

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If just about every woman who had lost weight that you'd ever fancied and painted their name on a road up a mountain had subsequently been proven to have a secret gastric band like Fern Britton, then maybe you just don't want to be hurt that way again.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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A better analogy would be a woman who in the past has accused women who lost weight of having a gastric band. The woman was fat when she accused them. Then the woman herself lost weight and she was asked if she had a gastric band and she went fucking nuts. Proper bananas. Instead of just saying, "nah mate, didn't need one," and then standing up and wiggling her arse and blowing kisses to the audience.

Anyway, Wiggins has approached the subject better this time. Although he seems to be saying he doesn't dope because that's something dirty foreigners do and he wouldn't do it because he'd lose everything. You COULD read that as if their was a 100% undetectable way of cheating he'd be okay with that. Which I think is probably true of every single sportsman however I'd have said "Doping is just plain cheating."

Doping is strange. I mean, say one day one guy found out that, I dunno, eating aluminium and glass ground up gave you a massive physical advantage but such a thing wasn't banned. Just nobody knew about it. That guy would do it with no qualms, you know? Even though the only thing that separates it from cheating is the fact that glass and aluminium isn't on a list.

So, again, I don't think Wiggins is on drugs and even if he was I wouldn't actually care that much. It's his hypocritical attitude and sense of entitlement I don't really like. And the fact he's really fucking boring to watch and if he wasn't British you'd all agree.

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Luke

Luke

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To be honest, I don't really have much of an idea who he is at all, don't watch sport, and generally have a perverse sense of anti-patriotism if I do.

Just sounded like a reasonable reaction to twats accusing you of cheating, to me.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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To be honest, I don't really have much of an idea who he is at all, don't watch sport, and generally have a perverse sense of anti-patriotism if I do.

Just sounded like a reasonable reaction to twats accusing you of cheating, to me.

Oh right. No, if you know who he is, his history and the sport then it's odd. Sure taken in isolation it's not.

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choddo

choddo

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Of course chances are he is doping, just in a way they can't catch yet.

Fucking wanker

etc.

as for "he didn't do that well until 2009..." he makes some very pertinent points in that article

I was fifth in the time trial in Albi in the 2007 Tour' date=' behind Alexandr Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Cadel Evans and Andreas Klöden. The first two later tested positive for blood doping so I was effectively third, two weeks into the Tour, at a time when I wasn't concentrating on the race.

I had the engine already, and it showed that year when I won the prologues in the Dauphiné and the Four Days of Dunkirk. As early as 2005 I was seventh in the world time trial championships in Madrid: two of the riders in front of me, "Vino" and Kashechkin, were again, later, done for doping; a third, Rubén Plaza, was implicated in Operación Puerto. That year, I won a mountain stage in the Tour de l'Avenir.

[/quote']

There is no question in my mind that he's clean. And pretty certain about the rest of Sky too.

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morcs

morcs

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I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are doping. I try to just ignore it.

I read Kimmage's book though. I also read Cav's book, really enjoyed it but came away with the same sort of questions ramone did. i.e. The boy doth protest too much.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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Well I never had any suspicions about Millar. He was a cool guy. And let's not forget he, like many of them, never tested positive.

And all Wiggins' achievements were time trials. Practically a different sport. Apparently losing 6kilos turned him into a potential Tour winner. Bit like Armstrong really.

Wiggins came from nowhere to 4th in the Tour. If a Russian had done that we'd be - Wiggins in particular would be - 'something a bit dodgy there.' I mean the Wiggins of a couple of years ago would voice his sceptism of the Wiggins of today, and that's why his reaction was all fucked up.

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footle

footle

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So his argument, essentially is that because we Brits are plucky, honourable and fair we don't dope, and because of that if he cheated it would be awful so he doesn't cheat? I'm glad he cleared that up then.

Also there's the implication that he thinks doping is less prevalent amongst the rest of the peloton than it used to be.

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TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap

TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap

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I've stopped watching The Tour because of the everlasting doping stuff surrounding it. Too many years of rooting for somebody to win the course or a stage in a heroic manner, only for him to test positive shortly - or years - after and being stripped of his title. If the Armstrong allegations turn out to be true, 6 of the last 10 tours may well have a new retrospective winner (Armstrong 2002 - 2005, Landis 2006, Contador 2010). And how many stage winners? Probably lots more.

In the name of entertainment it would be better if doping was just allowed I suppose.

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MalevolentPanda

MalevolentPanda

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Phillips Idowu then. Pulls out of his last competition before the Olympics. Pulls out of the GB training camp to work with his own doctors in private instead. But gets very annoyed when asked to provide his medical records and is apparently perfectly fit to compete in the games.

Anyone think he isn't doping?

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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Sustained power outputs on the HC climbs are way less than they used to be, which points to less doping.

Although Wiggins' sustained power output on the hc climbs is much more than it used to be. But that's just training. When the foriegns have less power it means less doping. When the brits have much more it's all down to superior training methods and bulldog spirit. You know? Before he finished 4th his best result in a grand tour was about 150th. So it's not like everybody has dropped to that level. Wiggins improved by more than the cheaters dropped, which, to a cynic, might look dodgy.

That chinese swimmer though.

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Hawkeye

Hawkeye

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Although Wiggins' sustained power output on the hc climbs is much more than it used to be. But that's just training. When the foriegns have less power it means less doping. When the brits have much more it's all down to superior training methods and bulldog spirit. You know? Before he finished 4th his best result in a grand tour was about 150th. So it's not like everybody has dropped to that level. Wiggins improved by more than the cheaters dropped, which, to a cynic, might look dodgy.

With Wiggins it was probably because he managed to get through an off season without being an drunken buffoon lying in a puddle of his own vomit and piss.

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metallicfrodo

metallicfrodo

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You know? Before he finished 4th his best result in a grand tour was about 150th. So it's not like everybody has dropped to that level. Wiggins improved by more than the cheaters dropped, which, to a cynic, might look dodgy.

I know you like your hyperbole Ramone but I think you are putting a very negative spin on that. His best result prior to the 4th place was 123 in 2006, he withdrew in 2007 and he didn't compete again until the 2009 tour. At that time he was still partly concentrating on track racing rather than the endurance demands of road racing. Big Mig failed to complete his first two tours, and in fact went from withdrawing to winning the tour in 5 years, similar to Brad in fact.....

I have no idea if he is doping, or if Froome is or if Nibali is. I'd like to hope not. The sustained power outputs from the mountains this year would indicate that there is certainly less doping than there was during the EPO era when in all likelihood most of the top contenders where on something it appears. Are there still moderately good people who are upping their performance to what is natural for the very best performers by taking drugs, probably.

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ras el hanout

ras el hanout

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I know you like your hyperbole Ramone but I think you are putting a very negative spin on that. His best result prior to the 4th place was 123 in 2006, he withdrew in 2007 and he didn't compete again until the 2009 tour. At that time he was still partly concentrating on track racing rather than the endurance demands of road racing. Big Mig failed to complete his first two tours, and in fact went from withdrawing to winning the tour in 5 years, similar to Brad in fact.....

I have no idea if he is doping, or if Froome is or if Nibali is. I'd like to hope not. The sustained power outputs from the mountains this year would indicate that there is certainly less doping than there was during the EPO era when in all likelihood most of the top contenders where on something it appears. Are there still moderately good people who are upping their performance to what is natural for the very best performers by taking drugs, probably.

I think you'll find Big Mig had a pedigree in road racing before the tour. Wiggins had won one road stage of a race before he finished 4th on the tour - surprisingly it was a mountain stage of the Tour de l'Avenir and finished miles down overall. Indurain won that event as a youngster.

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metallicfrodo

metallicfrodo

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That 16yr old certainly is suspect. But i'm sure a country like China probably injects their athletes with all kinds of jazz

I think comments like this are what Ramone is really getting at, the suspicion that other countries just must be at it. But the truth of the matter is that China should have amazing sports men and women. They account for about a fifth of the worlds population so have a pretty big pot of potential talent to go and look at. They specifically go out and look for people who show promise at a young age, and give them all the money, support and training they need to become the best they can.

What's your take on Usain Bolt out of interest?

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