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Xbox One Console Thread


mushashi
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The point is going to always online where consumers are locked into ecosystems without mods, without resale or consumer rights and have a compromised experience (see SimCity and Diablo 3), and can have their games turned off when they're no longer profitable isn't "better for everyone involved". It's better for the publisher, worse for retail and worse for the consumer.

People get that second hand is a problem that should be dealt with, but it's their problem and the answer isn't taking it out on the consumer and removing their rights and hurting the games themselves.

Not this "online means no mods" shit again. And don't get me started on the "boo hoo, I can't resell digital stuff" argument, everyone seems fine spending hundreds of pounds a year on albums and Kindle books and digital movies but the moment you can't flog game licences everyone wets the bed.

The alternative to making it impossible to use games second-hand, or nerfing them into trials, is to cut out retailers who sell second-hand games entirely and go online only. That's what's coming the generation after next.

But... why? Tell me how much second-hand sales they can make before they're in 'the wrong'.

*edit* Same question to Spacehost. What level of second-hand sales can there be before they're 'distorting' the market?

I think every third game sold is a pretty distorted market. If every third album sold was second hand half the music publishers in the world would be out of business.

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The alternative to making it impossible to use games second-hand, or nerfing them into trials, is to cut out retailers who sell second-hand games entirely and go online only. That's what's coming the generation after next.

No, the alternative is the industry sorts its business practices out to kill second hand without using draconian policies that restrict the consumer.

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I think every third game sold is a pretty distorted market. If every third album sold was second hand half the music publishers in the world would be out of business.

That didn't really answer my question very specifically, but somewhere between 33.3% and 1%. That's a bit vague.

How many new games are available compared to second hand games available?

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Let's here your alternative business practises, then.

Wait for the high street retailers to go bankrupt, it'll happen any minute.

Everyone here is aware of the financials, we're aware and cognizant that second hand is taking from the publishers, but just as crazy draconian DRM wasn't the solution for music, it's not the solution here.

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I think the fees are of the order of a few cents, not 10 dollars or euro, and they go to the consortium, then Sony gets a share.

XBLA is a digital product isn't it? I thought we were talking about physical. Is there a digital marketplace for secondhand XBLA I'm not aware of? Genuine question.

Yes budget games exist. What sort of budget games are we talking about? Inexpensive to make in the first place or inexpensive because the product has been released for some time, costs have been recouped, there seems to be some demand so the rest is gravy?

Which new console titles are £4.99?

Do you know the fees for console games?

Sure XBLA is digital, but there are still fees that allow them to sell very cheaply. I think Bruce Willis is trying to sort out transference of digital products to other people (as he asked about how he would leave his files to his daughter or something) - so nothing I know of to answer your question.

The latter - budget because they've been out a while. Though there were budget titles on the PS2 like I mentioned before, though I think they released at £19.99 or £14.99.

http://www.game.co.uk/en/games/xbox-360/?attributeName1=Shop%20By&sortColumn=popular&sortTypeStr=DESC&inStockOnly=true&listerOnly=true&provenance=New&attributeValue2=6&attributeValue1=63&attributeName2=Price%20Range_EN_GB

There are some for £9.99 or less. Previously, I'd seen quite a few in shops, Classics titles and some crap games for £4.99, but they exist brand new.

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I think Bruce Willis is trying to sort out transference of digital products to other people (as he asked about how he would leave his files to his daughter or something) - so nothing I know of to answer your question.

I thought that was debunked as viral marketing for the new Die Hard soundtrack? Anyway, it's too late, Bruce Willis is

already dead woooOOOoo

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Do you know the fees for console games?

I added them to my post - as soon as I hit Reply, I thought I should mention the fees. call it €7 to €10, depending.

Sure XBLA is digital, but there are still fees that allow them to sell very cheaply. I think Bruce Willis is trying to sort out transference of digital products to other people (as he asked about how he would leave his files to his daughter or something) - so nothing I know of to answer your question.

The latter - budget because they've been out a while. Though there were budget titles on the PS2 like I mentioned before, though I think they released at £19.99 or £14.99.

http://www.game.co.u...ice Range_EN_GB

There are some for £9.99 or less. Previously, I'd seen quite a few in shops, Classics titles and some crap games for £4.99, but they exist brand new.

They have probably all made their costs back already or they are being sold because it is cheaper than leaving them in a warehouse. I would be very, very surprised if a recently released 360 or PS3 title was being sold for £4.99.

[edit]

Yes, look, those games at your link are old - 2007 to 2012. They have probably broken even and/or they have been released so long that there is no demand for them if they are more expensive than a tenner.

If they are newly manufactured (as opposed to release) the manufacturing fee will be less than a new release because the SRP is less than a new release. Maybe a few euro? So there is a little money to be made there.

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Can we deviate a bit and post the games that would make you bend over and take it. Lets say they did announce an anti preowned device and the publishers were so happy that they gave MS a 6 month exclusivity on something. What would you drop your trousers for ?

Red Dead 2 ?

Respawn's 1st game ?

PGR5 ?

Halo 5 ?

Blast Corps HD

A new Perfect Dark ?

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If they have a problem with the business model of Game, Gamestop...etc. then that's for them to sort out with their retail partners. As a customer I, or anyone else in this thread who doesn't have a vested interest in a publisher, shouldn't have to worry about it. Their solution won't only damage those businesses it will stop people selling their stuff on eBay, lending it to a friend or (since people have brought it up) even giving them to Oxfam (yes Oxfam do take games, I've given some to them in the past). To see supposed consumers lining up to throw confetti at measures that are actively bad for them really is breathtaking.

Another one I haven't seen mentioned is people renting games through LoveFilm, Blockbusters (pfffffft) etc. At least one person I know uses this over buying new games, especially if they could be of dubious quality and I'd been considering starting it myself. Microsoft could easily start their own 'rental' service though.

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I added them to my post - as soon as I hit Reply, I thought I should mention the fees. call it €7 to €10, depending.

They have probably all made their costs back already or they are being sold because it is cheaper than leaving them in a warehouse. I would be very, very surprised if a recently released 360 or PS3 title was being sold for £4.99.

[edit]

Yes, look, those games at your link are old - 2007 to 2012. They have probably broken even and/or they have been released so long that there is no demand for them if they are more expensive than a tenner.

If they are newly manufactured (as opposed to release) the manufacturing fee will be less than a new release because the SRP is less than a new release. Maybe a few euro? So there is a little money to be made there.

Ah, I must've just seen it before the edit.

Yeah, I didn't mean newly released games, sorry if I gave that impression.

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Another one I haven't seen mentioned is people renting games through LoveFilm, Blockbusters (pfffffft) etc. At least one person I know uses this over buying new games, especially if they could be of dubious quality and I'd been considering starting it myself. Microsoft could easily start their own 'rental' service though.

I reckon LoveFilm et al would get special rental discs that don't need authorising.

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That'd be really great. I don't see why they wouldn't allow you to resell your old games on the market, aside from setting a precedent they might not want to set. They could hopefully set it up so the publisher/developer get a fair cut of each sale.

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They could hopefully set it up so the publisher/developer get a fair cut of each sale.

This would be my guess too as to how it will all pan out next gen. The pre-owned market is massively lucrative so to kill it off would be retarded.

Obviously the powers that be want to take that profit from the high street and back to the publishers, but seeing how they do it will be interesting. Selling your digital rights through the console in some kind of ebay-esque auction? Who knows...

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