Liverpool FC 2012-2013

[Shimmyhill]

[Sng]

Our net spend over the past two seasons has been £20m and around £30m respectively.

So £50m ish in two seasons? That's quite a lot. The line-up today cost £170m. Average that out it's 15m per player. We really shouldn't be talking about a lack of investment.

[kempstar]

When you take over a team that is 6th in the table, investing £50m in the team is unlikely to move you up the table.

[kempstar]

Edit: im not saying there has been a lack of investment. Im saying that taking over a squad as poor as ours was, and spending relatively less than other teams above us, means that we are not going to move up the table.

People may say teams like spurs and even united havent spent much over the past few seasons, but they had far better teams and squads than us in the first place!

[George Clooney]

Edit: im not saying there has been a lack of investment. Im saying that taking over a squad as poor as ours was, and spending relatively less than other teams above us, means that we are not going to move up the table.

People may say teams like spurs and even united havent spent much over the past few seasons, but they had far better teams and squads than us in the first place!

Again, I'm not sure how you can say that considering it wasn't that long ago you finished second and really pushed Utd for the title. That should have been a platform to build on as that team was damn solid. The only player you really missed from the season after was Alonso, but it was a big loss for you. Despite that, ignoring the net sales, you've still been spending more than every team except Chelsea and Man City. I really don't think you can argue that lack of spending is the problem. If you said that you've spent poorly, that's another story altogether. Using Alonso as an example, you still spent fairly big that season, but didn't really replace him properly. It's snowballed a bit since with more players that you've spent big on who haven't really come good.

Lack of relative spending doesn't really tell the whole picture, after all, relatively Villa have spent more than you in net terms but are much worse off. Arsenal are making money, but maintaining position, more or less. Man City have spent silly amounts, but in a short space of time without selling any players for big money like Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd all have. The amount of money Liverpool has been spending on players should be getting them better results than they have been.

[larrydavidsanger]

[]

[Gabe]

I realise that's just a joke, but I can't think of any time in the last 10/15 years where fans would have thought we had the best players in every position. Even the season referenced by Clooney (finishing second) we didn't have the best first 11 (it's generally accepted that we were punching above our weight that year).

Anyway, back to today's game - Rodgers said he felt that the penalties and sending off were harsh, and that the ref was soft on West Brom. I didn't see the game at all, but is that accurate or usual manager moaning?

[George Clooney]

I realise that's just a joke, but I can't think of any time in the last 10/15 years where fans would have thought we had the best players in every position. Even the season referenced by Clooney (finishing second) we didn't have the best first 11 (it's generally accepted that we were punching above our weight that year).

Anyway, back to today's game - Rodgers said he felt that the penalties and sending off were harsh, and that the ref was soft on West Brom. I didn't see the game at all, but is that accurate or usual manager moaning?

I think both were pens, though Long made a bit of a meal of the first one. He was pushed, but it wasn't a particularly bad foul, it was almost like he went down just to make sure the ref knew he'd been pushed. It reminded me of something Neville was talking about last season where he was talking about players diving. His argument that sometimes players would be fouled in a way that was technically worth a foul, but if they were in the penalty area they had to go down to get it given. I'm not sure if that made as much sense as when he explained it, but that's how the first one seemed. So technically a pen, but Long pretty much forced the refs hand. Least that's what I thought. The second was pretty clearly a pen though.

The season you came second as well, I certainly never heard anyone claim best in every position, but I certainly heard people sayin they though you had the best team of 11, but Man Utd had more depth in there squas which won it. Wouldn't say it was a majority, but certainly a decent number. And that chart does represent how you lot are at least optimistic, which is more than can be said for certain Man Utd fans that post on here that are all doom and gloom even when they are at the top of the league and proclaim that Fergie doesnt know what he's doing when they only beat Wigan 3-0 because for part of the game Wigan looked like getting a goal or something stupid.

[Gabe]

I think both were pens, though Long made a bit of a meal of the first one. He was pushed, but it wasn't a particularly bad foul, it was almost like he went down just to make sure the ref knew he'd been pushed. It reminded me of something Neville was talking about last season where he was talking about players diving. His argument that sometimes players would be fouled in a way that was technically worth a foul, but if they were in the penalty area they had to go down to get it given. I'm not sure if that made as much sense as when he explained it, but that's how the first one seemed. So technically a pen, but Long pretty much forced the refs hand. Least that's what I thought. The second was pretty clearly a pen though.

That does make sense, I've heard it said before that players need to sometimes highlight in a very visible way that they've been legitimately fouled in order to get the decision. Reading the BBC live text earlier suggested both were penalties, not as sure about it being a straight red.

The season you came second as well, I certainly never heard anyone claim best in every position, but I certainly heard people sayin they though you had the best team of 11, but Man Utd had more depth in there squas which won it. Wouldn't say it was a majority, but certainly a decent number. And that chart does represent how you lot are at least optimistic, which is more than can be said for certain Man Utd fans that post on here that are all doom and gloom even when they are at the top of the league and proclaim that Fergie doesnt know what he's doing when they only beat Wigan 3-0 because for part of the game Wigan looked like getting a goal or something stupid.

If Torres and Gerrard had been fit all season then I do believe we would have won the title, yes. Good times. And yeah, we're optimistic, which is something - for example the number of people who were willing Carroll to come good last season is a fine example.

[Rev]

Gary:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq65vw_gary-neville-tells-it-like-it-is-on-diving_sport

[Chewylegs]

Hmmm, just watched the game on MOTD and both were soft penalties. We didn't take our chances though, so fair play to West Brom. I know it's only highlights but it certainly wasn't all doom and gloom from what I saw.

[Sng]

How was Borini? I missed it.

[JamesTW]

I realise that's just a joke, but I can't think of any time in the last 10/15 years where fans would have thought we had the best players in every position. Even the season referenced by Clooney (finishing second) we didn't have the best first 11 (it's generally accepted that we were punching above our weight that year).

If you mean 08/09 we had Xabi Alonso & Mascherano and a peak Gerrard in midfield with a peak Torres, Arbeloa is also overlooked, I think we did have the best first XI but it doesn't matter now

[Guest]

Fucking hell. How is Phil Dowd allowed to referee matches? He is a lazy fat pig, who also appears to be blind.

How can he be labelled as a "professional" referee?

Aside from that can someone get Suarez to make a controlled, calm finish? He lashes at everything.

[Gabe]

If you mean 08/09 we had Xabi Alonso & Mascherano and a peak Gerrard in midfield with a peak Torres, Arbeloa is also overlooked, I think we did have the best first XI but it doesn't matter now

We also had Albert Riera and Ryan Babel with 25+ league appearances But yeah, it's an age ago.

I wonder if we have any more signings lined up. What's happening with the loan deals? The BBC seemed to think (on Thursday) that both were still on.

[Takizawa]

We also had Albert Riera and Ryan Babel with 25+ league appearances But yeah, it's an age ago.

Blimey i'd forgotten about Riera, he was superb that season.

[Stig]

We also had Albert Riera and Ryan Babel with 25+ league appearances But yeah, it's an age ago.

I wonder if we have any more signings lined up. What's happening with the loan deals? The BBC seemed to think (on Thursday) that both were still on.

Sahin apparently wants to go to Arsenal cause of CL footy. Today probably strengthened that, even if Arsenal did only draw, they didn't he tonked like we did.

We'll probably end up paying something over the top like £12m for Dempsey.

Also can anyone tell me the point of Joe Cole?

[lolly]

Felt sorry for Cole TBH, it's not like he intentionally goes out to play shite/get injured/sent off etc. At least I hope he doesn't.

I'm sure this has been raised before but: the run of form that has seen Liverpool pick up the square root of f-all, does it coincide with Gerrard's return from injury in January/February or am i just shit-stirring/deluded?

Carragher trying to out muscle Lukaku(for that chance that Morrison balzed over the bar) was frankly, quite depressing for two reasons- that he thought he could and that Coates wasn't even in the matchday squad(unless he was injured?).

Lucas looked rusty but that's pretty much to be expected- heard he's back 2 months early from injury, might be worth easing him back rather than dropping him in at the deep end. WTF happened to downing after 15 minutes - he started brightly and dissappeared almost completely.

[Chewylegs]

How was Borini? I missed it.

Didn't see much of him to be fair. Our defence was all over the place but that's to be expected when you chase the game with 10 men. Unfortunately now. compare the sending off/penalty with the one Carlton Cole didn't get yesterday and it just shows how referring in this country is so inconsistent. It's become a sport of absolutely no contact

[davidcotton]

Also can anyone tell me the point of Joe Cole?

Cole on before Carroll? Wondered if that was Brendan Rodgers way of making a point?

[Stig]

A point to other clubs to not buy Joe Cole because not only has he got ridiculous wages, he's also turned garbage. Can't we just cut our loses and pay him off?

So it's pretty much 99% confirmed Sahin is goin to Arsenal. It saddens me to see how much our club has fallen and even worse considering that we do have some really good players, something just doesn't seem to gel right.

Carts needs to go, or drop back to 5th choice whims Kelly and Coates. He's too damn slow and clumsy now and he's gonna ruin his status at the club by making stupid mistakes in important matches.

Can't believe our next 4 games. If we struggle against West Brom, what the fuck is gonna happen against City, Arsenal, S'land and United.

[Gabe]

I'm sure this has been raised before but: the run of form that has seen Liverpool pick up the square root of f-all, does it coincide with Gerrard's return from injury in January/February or am i just shit-stirring/deluded?

Whilst I'm sure there would be some people who would agree with that statement, it isn't really fair to pin everything on him. A lot of things happened - Lucas obviously being injured was a big problem, but a bigger one was asking Charlie Adam to play a deeper role, and he was then awful for the rest of the season. Suarez continued to miss decent chances, Downing was dreadful from start to finish and Kuyt showed that - good servant of the club he was - his time was done. Plus Kenny's odd tactics throughout.

So it's pretty much 99% confirmed Sahin is goin to Arsenal. It saddens me to see how much our club has fallen and even worse considering that we do have some really good players, something just doesn't seem to gel right.

Carts needs to go, or drop back to 5th choice whims Kelly and Coates. He's too damn slow and clumsy now and he's gonna ruin his status at the club by making stupid mistakes in important matches.

Can't believe our next 4 games. If we struggle against West Brom, what the fuck is gonna happen against City, Arsenal, S'land and United.

That's disappointing about the loan, though I tend to rely on the Beeb for my news who didn't proclaim it a done-deal (unlike The Mirror).

As for Carragher, I'm actually more surprised that 2 penalties were given away yesterday, but neither by him! (I know he wasn't on the pitch for the first one, but still...). I've moaned about it before, but we have no decent CB cover - something that is now going to be a problem in the next 3 games. I imagine Rodgers will go for Carra's experience rather than Coates/Wilson/Kelly which is sadly the best choice I'd say. If only we could find another Hyypia!

[Takizawa]

Can't believe our next 4 games. If we struggle against West Brom, what the fuck is gonna happen against City, Arsenal, S'land and United.

We only struggled when we went down to 10 men, and it was quite alarming how badly we played from that point, we were opened up so easily.

I'm gonna be the guy who moans about the penalty decisions (I don't often do it). The first one was a foul, sure, but it was outside the box. The second one? Long tackled Skrtel and they clipped legs/feet, nothing I saw suggests Skrtel fouls him. If Long had won the ball then taken a stride and then Skrtel clipped him, then I think that'd be a penalty, but its all in one motion.

Brendan must have thought we could still have played some football with 10 men, and we tried, but too often we left huge gaps for WBA and they caught us out over and over.

[kiroquai]

Have no idea where my initial post about this just disappeared to, but...

Watching the Barca game just now, and Guillem Balague said that we're getting Tello from them. Seems pretty handy - had a big part in their second goal.

[Stig]

Have no idea where my initial post about this just disappeared to, but...

Watching the Barca game just now, and Guillem Balague said that we're getting Tello from them. Seems pretty handy - had a big part in their second goal.

We aren't gonna get Tello if Barca are playing him from the get go

[humdrum]

is that right? or is it just old? as looking at http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/liverpool-transfers.html it seems to imply the net spend is very different.

[Sng]

Were we not looking at Michu?

[Sng]

Well we're level on points with Utd and only a point behind Arsenal!

[Stig]

Well we're level on points with Utd and only a point behind Arsenal!

Yeah but United losing on the first day is fine. Us on the other hand, losing to a team (we only finished 2 places above) on the first day is (according to the media) crisis time at Liverpool.

[Gabe]

I'd count losing (heavily) to West Brom as being a worse result than losing to Everton, certainly. Not a crisis, of course, but I don't think any of the media has suggested that it is, have they?

Anyway, I see Skrtel has signed a new deal, which is good, countered by this: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-transfers-andy-carroll-urged-1271271. If Carroll is off, I do hope we have a replacement lined-up (and a reliable CB would be nice, too).