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Vinyl lovers


Oh Danny Boy
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And yeah a lot of the 80s gothic alternative shit that I'm into is a lot easier to find on vinyl, and often the CD versions were ruined anyway because people weren't used to them yet or something, and on reissues they often change the versions of the songs they use because all the artists are old idiots instead of young idiots now, so yeah, records is cool.

yeah, same reason why i got into it, so much of the 80's alt music is only available or easier/cheaper to find on vinyl. I don't think that vinyl is the domain of just audiophiles, there is a reason for the resurgence in its popularity; it sounds different, even on the most basic record player you experience a warm textured feeling from it that sets it apart from digital.

Even on my basic record player i can hear the difference in quality when i play 'the village green preservation society', many of the Kinks reissues on CD's have almost another album of extra material, which although is all well and good means that everything is compressed to fit 20+ songs on a single CD i also feel the album loses a bit of its magic as it becomes doubled in length. The vinyl as well as sounding better loses all the extra filler and provides me with the album as the Kinks originally intended it to be which i find is a more tighter and enjoyable experience

Nice, I can't seem to see if that amp has a phono pre-amp built in (not all integrateds do), but you can add one for very little. It should sound great. Even if you test it with a console plugged in for the meantime or something.

the turntable has a pre amp built in, i don't know if that makes a difference otherwise its back to the 'bay. I don't know if its worth changing the needle too

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I still have a reasonable amount of vinyl, mainly weirdo 7" singles (am a sucker for colour vinyl), a few dancy/electronic things, but since moving into a tiny flat a couple of years ago I simply cannot indulge the vinyl fetish. I can't even set up my old hi-fi turntable ( not even going to mention the model for fear of ridicule).

There was a time I'd buy the vinyl version of something just for the hell of it, and putting the needle on a record is a great feeling, afternoons spent just rifling through my records and pulling out a corker I'd not heard in years. In some ways I really miss it, yet generally I've got over it. Was never a big one for 'the chase' associated with hard-to-find records, that's not to say I didn't do it and get a minor buzz when that record landed in my hands.

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Maybe it doesn't sound better to you but that doesn't mean to say it's definitively a myth. It's certainly hard to debate that it sounds different, at the very least.

Whether it's 'better' or not is then down to a matter of taste.

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Sometimes it feels like the "vinyl sounds better than CDs" people are on the defensive. It may very well do, but barring crackle most normal people wouldn't really hear it, or even care. Good music sounds good on whatever format.

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Sometimes it feels like the "vinyl sounds better than CDs" people are on the defensive. It may very well do, but barring crackle most normal people wouldn't really hear it, or even care. Good music sounds good on whatever format.

agreed. Going through these audio/hi-fi forums you'd think that you'll need a £1000 set up to be able to appreciate the music. Awesome music is awesome music whether you are playing it on a £30 Tesco basic CD player or some sophisticated hi-fi system

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I wouldn't say that. Great music sounds EVEN better through a hifi than it does on a £30 CD player, or through headphones. I would say that there is a a lot of snobbery about hifi and vinyl vs CD in general, which I don't like. Debate has raged on for years about the sound quality, and they are both wrong.

Yes mastering does make better sound regardless of format. But then sound is analogue by definition, and there are so many ways that the sound can be pushed to your ears.

DAC's in CD players handle this, and that is a huge factor, and vinyl is as old skool analogue as you can get, but also has a lot of variables. What I will say though is that the quality of CD production, especially in "boosting" or brickwalling the sound output, has made the format horrible to listen to. That, to me, is one of the key factors in vinyl's resurgence.

Also the dreaded "remaster" does not nessicarily provide you with the best sound. Check ebay for old Bowie RCA CD's to see what I mean, these where sourced from the analogue masters from the 70's/80's and have a better sound, whereas the ones you can get on Amazon for £4 a shot are compressed, gated and put through a hiss filter that kills off frequences at the low and high end, effectively suffocating the sound. CD used to be about "revealing the limitations of the source tape", remember that disclaimer. Now they remove all that stuff digitally, again not a fault of the CD format in itself, but shows how the format has become unpopular with remaster after remaster.

Vinyl has a different sound, its more open and appears to have a wider sound and better seperation. A 12" single for example can have so much "punch" to it that CD cannot compete at the same level. Vinyl can also be of poor quality.too though, bad pressings and warpings still blight it, especially the 180g ones.

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Yeah, there are so many variables that it's hard to generalise but saying 'I prefer the sound' or whatever tends to be a much easier shorthand than boring people with myriad 'if's and 'but's. That's what I default to if it comes up, anyway. For whatever reasons (not all of which are inherant in the actual format itself), I much prefer the sound of vinyl on the whole.

Some people take it too far and get into snobbery, but that's people for you.

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I have thousands of records, all of them except my playing out box now reside in my mate's garage as I don't have the storage space.

Personally, and it's probably a facet of getting older, I don't really get bothered about sound quality these days. I've started DJing using the iPad, which effectively puts out a mono signal through a headphone splitter, and I just bought Ricky Lee Jones' Girl At Her Volcano again via iTunes, and it still sounds great through the pad's crappy speakers.

I find that the all encompassing desire I had for authenticity of sound in my twenties is all but gone, and I just don't care about it that much anymore.

Oh, and Steely Dan are the greatest band of all time, so well done Chris!

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Good-looking eBay seller for anyone after US-pressed stuff here. Their prices are pretty typical for over there but the free shipping on each item really makes it worthwhile.

Not sure whether they mark stuff down for customs but most of their stuff is below the limit anyway. Gonna email them about it since I'm after the Killer MIke LP so I'll post an update when they get back to me.

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Everything in the system has an effect on what you hear. Awesome CD Player + crap DAC + awesome amp + awesome speakers = crap sound. As kernow pointed out I think that the DAC on my CD player and that in my amp are both very average so the sound from my all-analog old but dectne turntable + decent phono stage + ok amp + HD595s end up sounding better than my CDs. I daresay if I bought a better DAC I might get a better sound out the cd player.

EDIT: I enjoyed reading Chris' story :)

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Slightly off topic maybe:

My CD player is actually a pioneer 575a DVD player. It connects to a Yamaha AV amp via both 2 x phono and optical.

I also have a dual turbtable with a new Audio Technica 95 cartridge and a cambridge audio phono stage.

I have Neil Diamond's The Jazz Singer on both CD and Vinyl.

It sounds much better on vinyl than it does on CD using both phono or digital optical out.

Why is this? How would a more expensive CD player make the CD sound better than the vinyl?

A more expensive CD player probably won't have any effect. It's possible that the vinyl is mastered differently to the CD pressing, and you prefer the sound of that.

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I buy a fair bit of Vinyl (mostly 2nd hand) and still have a bunch of records from when I was a kid, which I still listen to (mainly Spacemen 3 and other psych/late 80s stuff I was into at the time). I generally only pick up what I feel are classic albums now that I know I’ll listen to all the way through, as I got burned too many times buying a record when I was growing up only to listen to a couple of songs. I mainly buy classic rock, krautrock, jazz, some disco. I love picking up old records for pennies at Boot sales and the like.

I have a fairly inexpensive, but decent setup. I have all vintage equipment which just worked out cheap but has great sound quality, but I really am not an audiophile. I have a vintage Technics linear tracking turntable, an Sansui receiver, a late 80s Harman Kardon CD player and a couple of giant Klipsch KG4 speakers. Whole setup was roughly $500 (so about 300 pounds). There is a definitive improvement in sound quality in this system compared to a crappy Sony midi system I used to have, so if you listen to a lot of music it’s worth upgrading.

On the whole CD vs Record sounds quality, I can definitely tell the difference when listening to one vs the other. I did a listening test with Revolver and the Vinyl sounded way better, but I have no idea how much is down to the quality of the pressing and my various components. Generally Records do sound a bit warmer and less digital than CD’s, but you have to put up with static and they are not as clear in terms of audio. Again I am sure that’s a massive generalization that most Audiophiles would scoff at.

Oh and Aja by Steely Dan, if you don't have it pick it up - awesome record!

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Good-looking eBay seller for anyone after US-pressed stuff here. Their prices are pretty typical for over there but the free shipping on each item really makes it worthwhile.

Not sure whether they mark stuff down for customs but most of their stuff is below the limit anyway. Gonna email them about it since I'm after the Killer MIke LP so I'll post an update when they get back to me.

My word, they are selling new LP's which cost more to buy over here? I'm just going to purchase My Morning Jacket 'Z'. I'll let you know if it's all legit when I get it.

I also had to get Portishead 3 LP, how could I not for £9.80?

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Reckon you'll be alright, 120k feedback and that. If you bought a shitload of stuff and none of it got done for customs it wouldn't actually work out much different from a UK store getting it wholesale from a US distro, which is amazing.

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Is there a place to go to check out the quality of specific pressings of albums? Specifically I want Spiderland by Slint but won't bother unless I can get a pressing that is considered excellent quality. Ta.!

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Touch & Go stuff has always been solid, pressing wise. They used to be dirt cheap too but they hiked their prices a couple of years back. With Spiderland I'd say the production's more of an issue than the pressing.

Yeah it's not exactly hifi to begin with but I want it to be the best it can be. Cheers.

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Yeah, the vinyl's probably the best it'll ever get, put it that way. A lot of their catalogue has always stayed in print so even new copies should still be sourced from the original tapes. The only thing with that is that there are twenty years worth of copies of Spiderland floating around out there with the same catalogue number and obviously there'll be fluctuations in the general manufacturing quality of vinyl in that time (sometimes pretty noticable ones) but, for what it's worth, I've got loads of Touch & Go stuff and I can't remember any real issues with them off the top of my head.

Spiderland's a big favourite of mine but I went a long time without hearing it until recently and, going back to it, found myself quite surprised at the way it sounded. But then it's one of those where if it sounded 'better' it might easily lose a lot of its atmosphere.

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Didn't realise Spiderland went out of print, used to be loads of them about. As the back of the CD says "This album should be listened to on vinyl", so vinyl is the best one to get. My vinyl copy about 16 years old, sounds fine to me. The CD is not that bad either, you just have to crank it up a bit. At least its not EQ'd or brickwalled to fuck.

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Everyone here seems fairly sane - with the usual exceptions - but vinyl loving, like other aspects of audiophilia, really can bring out the creepily obsessive in some people.

Does anyone know someone who's used this service: http://www.andvinyly.com ? Seems a bit expensive to me; I think I'll probably just leave a box full of old Fall LPs to the relatives when I go. Though they'll probably consider that to be in even poorer taste than And Vinyly (the pressing of the original Dragnet simply has to be heard to be believed).

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Gorf, do you mean the original pressing of Dragnet or is there some other version that I don't know about (like a different mastering or something)?

Didn't realise Spiderland went out of print, used to be loads of them about.

I don't think it has, has it? If it was me who gave that impression it must be down to my lack of clarity!

Although Touch & Go have always seemed really good that way nothing would surprise me anymore. I remember being amazed when Mute discontinued all the old Nick Cave LPs a couple of years back. Regretted not grabbing the ones I didn't already have.

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Gorf, do you mean the original pressing of Dragnet or is there some other version that I don't know about (like a different mastering or something)?

I just mean the original release really. It's this one:

post-663-0-15354500-1345399919_thumb.jpg

Although I did get mine not all that long after it came out, and I don't know if it ever got new pressings, let along remasterings (I can't imagine that happened until the advent of the CD). But I dunno really, I've never checked its history and have only ever listened to my own and a mate's equally old vinyl copy. They are both barbarically wonderful, but to describe the pressing (and production) as 'rough' would be an understatement. Yet the CD/digital copies I have - which are all I've listened to for a long time, as I haven't plugged a record deck in in ages - just don't do it for me like the old vinyl cut did.

I really should get another deck some day. My old one's knackered. But my record collection is now hugely depleted - I think I only have about 40-50 LPs left, and a bare handful of singles, after decades of selling, losing, moving, neglect, and all the rest. So it's probably not worth it.

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Looks in good nick! I haven't listened to any early Fall in a good while (I go through phases with them generally and I don't think they've been on great form for a while) so I've just pulled Grotesque out for a spin later on. It was the first album of theirs I ever bought back in high school and I remember the absolute disgust of my friends when I tried to get them into it - I really took some high grade pisstaking over my blossoming love of The Fall back then. I think it was that glorious roughness you mention that was the issue for them.

Most of them ended up seeing the light years later and I got to play smug cunt with them about it on occasion, so that was alright.

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Grotesque (and then Slates, and then Hex) all sound great on vinyl. I think Grotesque is where their sound - as well as their material - really opened up and took on more depth. Compared to the production values of Dragnet it's like Dark Side Of The Moon. I've never, ever heard a recording as technically 'bad' as Dragnet apart from some that only exist on old 78s or those wax cylinder things. It really was a thing of wonder, and to this day I have met very few people to whom I have attempted to play it who, after the opening 10 seconds of any track on the album, don't start shouting at the top of their panicky voices to 'turn this shit off' with a look on their faces like they're on the verge of an aneurysm.

Excellent LP.

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To be honest I just remember everything before Hex Enduction Hour sounding amazingly rough. Like you could convince yourself that you were actually hearing them shambling around and bumping into each other and stuff. Wouldn't discount the possibilty, come to think of it. The lack of production was so alien compared to the ultra-produced modern 90s rock albums that were around at the time (and even compared to most of the stuff from the same era that I liked) that I doubt I'd have picked up much on the actual differences between them. Thinking about it though, the production on Grotesque and Live at the Witch Trials is at least internally consistent. IIRC doesn't Dragnet have a few moments where it sounds a bit like the engineer's suddenly fallen asleep and pushed a load of faders in the process?

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They had an engineer? :unsure:

Well alright, whoever pressed 'record' ;)

To me that clip doesn't sound too dissimilar to their other very eary stuff, but then Dragnet's the only album of theirs I love that I've never re-bought on vinyl which, by the sounds of it, is probably why it never particularly stuck out to me in that way. Feel motivated to go and find now to see how different it is.

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