Double Dragon Neo

[Anne Summers]

Really will buy this soon.

I ended up playing the Amiga version of DD for the first time ever a few days ago. Weird as the Amiga is my favourite ever system and DD one of my favourite ever games.

Amazing how they could get the basics so consistently wrong, converting arcade games to the western home system.

It looks like all the graphics are redrawn by a 5 year old with a crayon. None of the subtlety of the fighting system is implemented - if you stand there throwing punches straight ahead of you, enemies walk into them again and again until they die. I know this was a flaw with a lot of the other home conversions I played, but seriously this one makes the Spectrum conversion look almost competent by comparison.

I got all the way through to the start of level four (the enemy base) without losing a life on my first go, and then lost three lives in a row to a baddie who decided just to stand motionless at the top of the rock face you have to climb up, meaning every time I reached the top I got "hit" by him and plummeted down again.

The baddies don't seem to pick up weapons once they've been dropped. The throwing knife didn't appear anywhere. The dynamite appeared, but didn't blow up when I threw it - making it act more like a brick you knock enemies out with. And the enemies can't seem to interact with the scenery - they don't climb up any of the different levels, they just stay motionless at the closest spot they can get to you, without leaving the levels they are on.

I lost almost all of the rest of my lives and credits on the moving-walls-and-spear-jabbing statues (the shittest, cheapest bit of game in any videogame in history , in the arcade original, and replicated just as badly here).

Its always amazed me how western developers used to fuck up Japanese arcade translations so badly, they always seemed to just focus on making something which as closely as possible replicated the look and feel of the arcade (which was never going to work, due to the limited hardware) and not bother replicating the subtle gameplay nuances that made the games fun.

[Swainy]

Don't get me started on those Binary Design conversions of Double Dragon. Biggest disappointment ever for me, I was expecting great things after Target; Renegade on the Speccy & Amstrad thinking that they would use that as a template for their conversion.

[Anne Summers]

The weird thing is I actually enjoyed the Spectrum version! Pretty sure I heard you moaning on the podcast about it so I know you (and the rest of the world) don't agree with me.

I was very young, 9 or 10 I think, and I guess it was just because I was so excited about getting it, that I refused to admit it was shit.

Played it for hours back in the day though, and I remember telling my mate at school that it was exactly the same as the arcade game but without any colour, lol.

I didn't play Target Renegade until years later, and remember thinking "why didn't they just make DD more like this"?

edit: Just looked at some Speccy screenshots and it's actually more colourful than I remember it being! The main memory I had of it - that everything - the characters, weapons etc - looked like sausages- still holds true though.

[Swainy]

See I wanted to like it, I really did. I had wished my entire summer away waiting for that game lol

[Anne Summers]

See I wanted to like it, I really did. I had wished my entire summer away waiting for that game lol

Did you notice how all the enemies were exactly the same except with different sprites? They all did the same amount of damage per hit, and had the same amount of energy. The only difference was Abobo could hit you if he was on the horizontal level above or below you.

[Swainy]

I certainly did. The black guys were just inverted versions of the white characters too.

You've probably seen the new version that myself & Jim Bagley are working on?

http://youtu.be/jJ3oaobLzzM

[Cthulhu Steev]

I agree about the buttons. I tried to play using the arcade stick originally but it was not really suitable. Had the same issue with guardian heroes iirc.

Hard Corps uses the fightstick brilliantly in arcade mode, you can take dash off a button and use double-tap instead. I wish this game would let you do that.

[Anne Summers]

I certainly did. The black guys were just inverted versions of the white characters too.

You've probably seen the new version that myself & Jim Bagley are working on?

Yes, I have - but I saw it a long time ago (few years it's been on the go right?) - Looking and sounding very good in that video.

[Swainy]

Yes, I have - but I saw it a long time ago (few years it's been on the go right?) - Looking and sounding very good in that video.

Yeah it been in the works for ages but it will get finished one day. I hope

[Anne Summers]

As I have your attention here Swainy just following up on something we chatted about in PM a while ago...

Was driving along Witham high street a few days ago and looked up at a brightly lit up window above a restaurant. Inside I could see retro games posters and a banner. I did a bit of googling when I got home and reckon it's this place - http://gogetretro.com/

Did you say you had dealt with them? I've tried calling them to see if I could go in and have a nose around and a chat, but their phone number doesn't seem to work. So I might wander down in a bit as I've got nothing to do this afternoon ...

[Swainy]

Yes I did buy a Megadrive from him last year. However I recently visited his eBay store and it seems that he has shut up shop and a lot of people didn't receive goods that they had paid for.

It would be interesting to know if he is still operating from that office though.

[Anne Summers]

I will find out.

[robotattack]

I noticed that place a few months ago when on a train replacement bus. I forgot to look it up since then.

[Anne Summers]

Just noticed Double Dragon 2 has appeared on Xbox marketplace. Hadn't heard anything about this. Now downloading the trial. Interesting, because the later games in the series don't get anything like the love that the first one does (with good reason I guess).

Edit: Ok just had a quick play (demo is extremely short) and ... I think it might actually be ok. It seems like a much more straightforward 3D upgrade of DD2 arcade, than DD Neon was of DD1. Actually I am quite impressed by how faithful it seems - there's an animated version of the DD2 arcade intro where Willy kills Marion, and there's an introductory animation when the first boss (with the red hat) enters, and I immediately recognised it was the same character. I wonder if Swainy will like it more than DD Neon. It's certainly grittier, and does away with the camp.

The music, sadly, is no way near as good.

[Swainy]

I downloaded it on Sunday night and I've only had time to play past the section where you are in the helicopter.

Anyway, this game has been slagged off pretty by everyone on the net and yes it's hugely floored and the graphics and music are a massive step back from Neon but I'm finding it strangely playable.

It reminds me a lot of Fighting Force but with much shorter stages. The biggest problem is that you are forced into playing the training section of the game each time you start a new game. It's actually part of intro in that Marion gets killed.

[Anne Summers]

Did you like Neon in the end Swainy? I remember hearing you on the podcast saying you didn't like the campness of it before it came out, did you buy and play it eventually?

I still haven't got round to buying it, just haven't had time yet really!

Would be interesting to find out if there is a story behind this new one - seems weird that they would completely change direction after Neon was fairly well received.

[Swainy]

Did you like Neon in the end Swainy? I remember hearing you on the podcast saying you didn't like the campness of it before it came out, did you buy and play it eventually?

I still haven't got round to buying it, just haven't had time yet really!

Would be interesting to find out if there is a story behind this new one - seems weird that they would completely change direction after Neon was fairly well received.

I bought it, I can see why it was so well received. It's got high production values and its a fairly decent scrolling beat em up. However it's not really a Double Dragon game despite all the references to past Double Dragon games.

As for this new sequel, from what I understand it was actually in development before Neon and was held back. If it had been released on the Dreamcast then it might have been seen as a decent game but in 2013 it feells like a 12 year old game.

[Anne Summers]

I have to say I'm more tempted by DD2, judging by the demos, because I don't like the art style of Neon, although I did enjoy the fighting system.

That DD Neon music though ...