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Star Wars: The Force Awakens


Doctor Shark
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Why can the force guide your movements for reflecting bolts but not when fighting someone else with a lightsaber?

Maybe because fighting an upredictable human, who may use various sword techniques against you, provides that you are trained in some sword techniques as well?

Jedi training is at the forefront of these movies. What is so illogical to assume that training is needed to use a lightsaber?

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Maybe because fighting an upredictable human, who may use various sword techniques against you, provides that you are trained in some sword techniques as well?

Jedi training is at the forefront of these movies. What is so illogical to assume that training is needed to use a lightsaber?

Right, but... Hmm. So someone's reflexes... against an unpredictable droid... firing lasers at you... that you can't see, easy.

But against a similarly unpredictable human... maybe even less so because humans can't fly or zip about or that... a human that you CAN see... that's different..?

Lightsabers are well easy, mate. Honest, just watch the films.

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Right, but. So... one's reflexes... against an unpredictable droid... firing lasers at you... that you can't see.

But against a similarly unpredictable human... maybe even less so because humans can't fly or zip about or that... a human that you CAN see... that's different..?

Lightsabers are well easy, mate. Honest, just watch the films.

You do know that you have to attack a human to survive when you duel with a lightsaber -edit: swords in general i mean, lol- right? And if you don't know how to attack you will be easily killed?

But anyway, no point in keep going, we just disagree.

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Maybe because fighting an upredictable human, who may use various sword techniques against you, provides that you are trained in some sword techniques as well?

Jedi training is at the forefront of these movies. What is so illogical to assume that training is needed to use a lightsaber?

So the force can empower the movements of humans to a degree where they can achieve things that are completely impossible for normal humans, but can't help them to do something normal humans do regularly? It can guide their hands to block something, essentially predicting the future, but can't guide their hands into hitting two sticks together?

Luke's training as were shown it involves rocks and sitting. If it was so fundemental, isn't it a fair assumption that we'd see Yoda mention it once or see him instruct Luke on it once? We get multiple lifting things with the force moments to illustrate what Yoda is doing to train him. Other than that any Jedi training information is bullshit because it's EU or prequels.

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Even if that were true and we assume that Jedis learn to train to use lightsabers by themselves, which is illogical in my opinion, he still took the time to train,

something that's not done by Rey and Finn. I can agree that there may be secrets to these new characters of course, but that brings me back to my original point and only thing I wasn't so thrilled in the Force Awakens: character building taking a back seat to action too much.

In the prequels obviously they were all trained, they were a peacekeeping force. That'd be like sending UN soldiers out and expecting them to work out what a gun was when they got to combat.

Without knowing Yoda can use a lightsaber, there's no reason to think Luke had spent any time with anyone who could use them, beyond the journey to Alderaan.

It's only swordfighting. There's no reason a normal person can't do it (as Finn proves, assuming I'm right that he has no force ability at all), they're just not as good. I think you're slightly over-estimating how complicated it is. The same goes for piloting an X-Wing.

Until we know more about Luke's failed Jedi School, we don't know if Kylo had training there with a saber. If not, it's entirely possible that was his first geunine fight with one just as much as it was Rey's and Finn's.

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In the prequels obviously they were all trained, they were a peacekeeping force. That'd be like sending UN soldiers out and expecting them to work out what a gun was when they got to combat.

Without knowing Yoda can use a lightsaber, there's no reason to think Luke had spent any time with anyone who could use them, beyond the journey to Alderaan.

It's only swordfighting. There's no reason a normal person can't do it, they're just not as good. I think you're slightly over-estimating how complicated it is. The same goes for piloting an X-Wing.

Until we know more about Luke's failed Jedi School, we don't know if Kylo had training there with a saber. If not, it's entirely possible that was his first geunine fight with one just as much as it was Rey's and Finn's.

I urge to pick up a sword and go fight someone who had some years of training. :P

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I loved the scene where the Imperial First Order Officer brings bad news to Renn. You're watching it and think 'Oh, here we go, a retread of those scenes in ESB where someone gives Vader bad news, he merks them with the force, then strides out to the Imperial March'. Then instead he has a massive toddler tantrum and slashes up the computers while the officer looks vaguely embarrassed to be there. I kind of wish he didn't have the force grab at the end of the scene. You get the feeling, later in the film when those two stormtroopers do a 180 and walk the other way when he's having another hissy fit, that this isn't an isolated occurrence if you work anywhere near him.

'I specifically asked for Frosties and not Shreddies this morning captain!' /starts slashing up the breakfast table

Depends on the type of sword. If I'm fitter/stronger/younger, I'd likely win with many of them.

Do you have the high ground?

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I loved the scene where the Imperial First Order Officer brings bad news to Renn. You're watching it and think 'Oh, here we go, a retread of those scenes in ESB where someone gives Vader bad news, he merks them with the force, then strides out to the Imperial March'. Then instead he has a massive toddler tantrum and slashes up the computers while the officer looks vaguely embarrassed to be there. I kind of wish he didn't have the force grab at the end of the scene. You get the feeling, later in the film when those two stormtroopers do a 180 and walk the other way when he's having another hissy fit, that this isn't an isolated occurrence if you work anywhere near him.

'I specifically asked for Frosties and not Shreddies this morning captain!' /starts slashing up the breakfast table

Do you have the high ground?

Yeah, I also liked this. It just felt right for the character.

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I think there's too many assumptions there.

Finn may have been trained as a stormtrooper but his main weapon was a blaster. We don't even know that he was trained with those sword-like weapons, we just assume it because another one uses it. And even if he was trained it doesn't make sense to pick a lightsaber, a Jedi weapon which needs Jedi training to be used, and just use efficiently because it has the same principles with an energy rod. His reflexes should be way lower as well against Kylo.

As for Rey, I can let it go a bit because she is a Jedi, but still it doesn't make much sense. Her using a lightsaber is totally different than using a staff, so I don't know how you can assume it's the same. Her being strong with the force but completely untrained also doesn't explain how she would be able to use a lightsaber so good. In the old movies we see Luke having training before he can use it effectively.

Also, nothing explains why Kylo didn't use the force to beat them, especially since he sees that both of them, for some reason, can battle him with a lighstsaber. And the fact that he is desperate, wounded, hurt and in danger of losing the fight, using the force should be a very normal thing for him to take the edge.

I bet you are a barrel of laughs to go to the cinema with.

Well, I have this immense ability to enjoy movies and use my brain at the same time to point out things I didn't like about them without ruining my enjoyment. I am surely blessed.

Well, I have this immense ability to enjoy movies and use my brain at the same time to point out things I didn't like about them without ruining MY enjoyment. I am surely blessed.

Oh, I am ruining your enjoyment? Sorry. Let's not talk about things and just take everything at face value because STAR WARSS

You haven't ruined anything for me, my point was in relation to Hean Dog's comment and your response. He says you'd be a barrel of laughs to go to the cinema with and your response was basically, "Fuck whoever I go to the cinema with I can nit pick and express my very opinionated views without ruining MY[\i][\u][\b] enjoyment of the film". It just reads a bit self-centred. I never saw it with you nor had to listen to it first hand, so it doesn't bother me, but you come across as very self-centred and condescending with your comments.

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Well obviously if one fighter is slighter higher than the other its just a mis match. Stop being silly.

Except in situations where you're all the way below the opponent. Then it's a clear win.

There was a moment where Rey ran slightly up a hill, but then kept running. If she'd had proper training she'd have stayed there and Kylo would have been dead in microseconds.

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Chin, I didn't realize I was nit picking and certainly it wasn't my intention to be condescending. There are many things I could nit pick in the movie and I don't because it makes no sense to do so when a movie is good. But that was an important scene and it didn't work for me. I said my arguments on why it didn't work and people responded. I don't see the big deal.

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Chin, I didn't realize I was nit picking and certainly it wasn't my intention to be condescending. There are many things I could nit pick in the movie and I don't because it makes no sense to do so when a movie is good. But that was an important scene and it didn't work for me. I said my arguments on why it didn't work and people responded. I don't see the big deal.

If we were to ban nerdy nitpicking from discussion of Star Wars then there wouldn't be much thread here. I've certainly not taken any offence at your tone or anything.

Rear Windu.

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Er...(puts hand up)...

I mean, I'll obviously leave the thread if you guys want to drop the spoilers, but it's not exactly hard to do the tags.

Well obviously I don't want to chase you out of the thread. I'm happy to carry on with tags as long as everyone wants to. Although i'm not sure how much fun this thread is when 90% of the posts are behind spoiler tags you don't want to read anyway.

Of course the simple solution is JUST GO AND SEE IT TONY. You'll like it. It's like the proper old Star Wars. Go this afternoon! Tell your boss it's an emergency.

I've just bought the novelisation... I reckon it'll fill in a lot of the detail that will make further viewings EVEN BETTER

The only reason i haven't bought it yet is because I think Santa might be bringing me a copy next week.

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Watched this last night. Got the 'VIP seats' for once, so actually had a good viewing experience.

Definitely better than any of the prequels. The two main (non droid) characters were just so natural in comparison to anything in the prequels, it was a breath of fresh air. BB-8 was amazing too, real stand-out. Great action scenes and just full of wonderful moments.

However, it did have some problems with the setting:

I know we don't want trade dispute conference calls, but at least some background info on the relationship between the First Order, the Republic and the Resistance would have been good. So..the First Order is presumably trying to rebuild the Empire, right? Are they conquering planets? Why aren't they at war with the Republic? Are they acting within the Republic? General Hux's rant about the 'lying' Republic suggests the Republic have an officially cordial relationship with the First Order, and are supporting the Resistance on the sly. Why?

And the plotting:

the set up for the film is the search for Luke. The whole business with the map, which goodies and baddies are hunting. Then, suddenly it turns out the baddies have a giant planet destroying...planet, whose capabilities are never really explained and which gets no build up. No one is aware of this until it, seemingly, blows up the Republic which is...no big deal? And then it's on to crowdsourcing a plan to destroy it, again no big deal. I wish this element (increasingly stupid superweapons) had been left in the Expanded Universe and the plot had remained focused on Luke.

Generally, it felt a lot like an Expanded Universe story. A good Expanded Universe story, but still.

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You're doing nothing wrong. I don't even agree with your points about the plot. But you made them politely enough and started getting ad-hominems thrown at you. Starting with.

I bet you are a barrel of laughs to go to the cinema with.

And then being told .

Guys. Shut the fuck up.

And now being accused of being 'self-centred’ and ’condescending'.

Compare and contrast with Broker, who clearly disagrees with your points but is explaining how and why instead of making judgements on your personality just because he has different views than you on parts of a film.

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Anyway .. Loved Rey channeling lassie come home whenever she talked to BB-8 "What ... the deathstar has fallen in the old well ... and the dynamite has been lit by the evil sheriff .. jeepers"

And I desperately wanted to Poe to smile to the camera and say "Smoke me a kipper i'll be back for breakfast lads" smirk then walk off to do some ace flying.

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