Jump to content
IGNORED

Star Wars: The Force Awakens


Doctor Shark
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just back from seeing it for the first time . True to Abrahms form it's essentially a retelling . But I absolutely loved every minute of it . And there were times when I was grinning like I have never grinned at the cinema.

Honestly I felt like a kid again .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the worst features of the prequels is that they assembled such an awesome cast and stuck them in three turds.

Liam Neeson, Samuel L Jackson, Ewan McGregor, Christopher Lee, Natalie Portman... if only they were in a decent movie it would have been great.

Did Samuel L Jackson actually do anything in any of those movies?

His decapitation of Jango is pretty cool - other than that it's just green screen background chats with Yoda and a scrap with the Emperor.

Imagine how much worse the prequels would be if those actors weren't in it!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every single actor in the Prequel films were CUNTS*

*Apart from Liam Neeson :)

I would argue that Ian McDiarmid did a pretty good job as Palp's, especially in Ep 3.

Agree that the rest of the prequel cast were pretty wooden though and were obviously just going through the motions. By contrast I felt the cast in TFA were fantastic and seemed enthusiastic in their roles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would argue that Ian McDiarmid did a pretty good job as Palp's, especially in Ep 3.

Agree that the rest of the prequel cast were pretty wooden though and were obviously just going through the motions. By contrast I felt the cast in TFA were fantastic and seemed enthusiastic in their roles.

He was the best thing in all the prequels, he chewed up every scene he was in and was a thorough evil scheming bastard. Pity about the rest of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree that the rest of the prequel cast were pretty wooden though and were obviously just going through the motions. By contrast I felt the cast in TFA were fantastic and seemed enthusiastic in their roles.

To be fair they were all just dumped in green screen rooms with a director who didn't give a toss or give them any actual... directions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just returned from a second viewing and have some more ideas for where this story is going. You never know - some of this might be on the money, so don't read if you want to see the next film fresh...

The Max von Sydow character is a surviving dignitary of Alderaan (She will always be royalty to me). He was given the map by Luke under strict instruction to give it to no-one unless his daughter was in danger or looked likely to leave Jakuu of her own accord. The shop-keeper and his spies were contracted to keep direct eyes on Rey and give her measly portions so she wouldn't have the means to escape. However the rise of the darkside, manifested by Kylo Ren and the First Order, forces Sydow to break his word to Luke and offer Leia his location (I have seen too much darkness).

Kylo Ren is haunted by the concept of a girl out-manoeuvering him. This is because he once had a sister, a twin sister, and both trained together as apprentices under Luke. Both children revered their uncle, and competed to be the best of a new generation of Jedi. Luke exploited their natural rivalry to push them in their training, but ultimately pushed Ben too far - in his need to best his sister, Ben momentarily lapsed to the Dark Side and, unable to control its power, accidentally kills her. Luke takes responsibility for her death but Ben is broken, lost to sadness and hatred.

Luke disbands the school, renounces the force, and goes into exile with a Jedi student who has comforted him through this dark time. Like Han and Leia, Luke goes back to what he knows - running a moisture farm on a remote desert planet - refusing to ever mention the force or the Jedi or his true identity to his new daughter for fear she might repeat Ben Solo's path. Only when she is truely mature and responsible enough will she ever learn the truth of the force.

Ben Solo, meanwhile, has been seduced by Snoke, a former Imperial Governor who realises Ben could be the key to destroying both the Jedi and the Rebel Alliance and thereby pave the way for a new Empire. He tells him how the Dark Side can bring the dead back to life, including his sister. How does he know this power? He reveals the huge wound in his head - he was dead too until Palpatine resurrected him. He will train Ben in the Dark Side and he can then undo this great wrong that the foolish and impatient Luke allowed to happen. Ben must be totally consumed by the Dark Side, and he can achieve this by killing the remaining Jedi.

As Kylo Ren, Ben joins a Sith death squad that hunt the galaxy for remaining Jedi. Luke and partner leave their daughter in the care of a scrap merchant to confront Kylo and convince him to come back to the light. Only Luke survives the battle and decides to stay in hiding for fear that, with his new mind reading abilities and determination to wipe out the Jedi, Kylo may learn from him the location of his daughter. He gives Sydow the map piece and disappears.

As the product of two Jedi, Rey is especially strong with the force and will ultimately inherit two light sabers which she will affix to either end of her staff...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick flashback to 1983 with a 10yr old version of myself watching Return of the Jedi for the first time - Vader was unmasked and I was shocked/confused/disappointed to find a bald old fat bloke behind the mask, but over time that made sense to me, and it's the same with Ren/Ben - as soon as the mask was lifted the fear of the character disappeared, so maybe they played their hand a little too soon with this in TFA? I thought it was a bloody great film, but only one part niggled me - Chewie's reaction to Han's death. Think back to the carbon freezing chamber and how he reacted to that - I was expecting to see a full on wookiee rage happening, arms being torn from sockets etc. A worthy successor to the originals though, and has firmly put the prequels to shame

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read a great Kylo theory last night

Kylo is actually good and delved into the dark side to destroy it. It's all a massive plot to link both sides of the force together. That's why he can feel the light pulling him back and why he begs Han Solo to help him achieve his goal.

Though dunno how to explain slaughtering all the Jedi kids!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick flashback to 1983 with a 10yr old version of myself watching Return of the Jedi for the first time - Vader was unmasked and I was shocked/confused/disappointed to find a bald old fat bloke behind the mask, but over time that made sense to me, and it's the same with Ren/Ben - as soon as the mask was lifted the fear of the character disappeared, so maybe they played their hand a little too soon with this in TFA?

100%. Off comes the mask and I'm thinking, oh. Is that it? He's about as far from threatening as it gets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Abigail Nussbaum has written her blog post about the film - as with most of her SF&F criticism, it's worth reading:

Kylo Ren, a child of privilege who was raised by loving parents, doesn't have Anakin's justification for feeling fear and anger. Neither is he as fearsome as Darth Vader--his displays of anger feel more like tantrums. He is, in short, an utterly pathetic, entitled, whiny excuse for a villain, made all the more unpalatable because he apparently feels stirrings of conscience but chooses to ignore them. If The Force Awakens intended for us to recognize how unimpressive Kylo is and leave it at that, that would be one thing. But to me it feels as if the film wants us to be interested in him, and even wish for his redemption. Since "redemption," in this case, would mean Kylo getting over his unjustified self-pity and not hurting people for a second, I find myself utterly unsympathetic, and genuinely resentful of every second spent in his presence. It's particularly annoying that most of the emotional weight of Han's presence in the film (and all of Leia's) is expended on his grief for his son and his desire to save him, when I have to believe that the real Han would have absolutely no patience for the self-pitying streak of piss he somehow managed to raise.

Happily, there's a lot less Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens than there is Finn and Rey, both of whom are delightful. To be fair, the writing for both characters cuts corners--as I've already said, it isn't really believable that Finn was raised from a child to be a stormtrooper, or that he breaks free of his indoctrination so quickly and so easily. As for Rey, there's been some criticism of her super-competence--she's a genius engineer, a hotshot pilot, and incredibly strong in the Force--and to be honest, I feel that there's some merit to these complaints. The Star Wars films are full of preternaturally gifted characters, from Luke Skywalker himself, to Finn and Poe (who are, respectively, a gifted fighter who can pick up any weapon, including a lightsaber, and learn to use it within seconds, and an exceptional pilot who can fly anything). But Rey's competence moves the plot and solves her problems a lot more often than they do for any other character in the series, and at some point it's hard not to roll your eyes at that. For me, that point came in the scene in which Kylo Ren tries to interrogate Rey using the Force. I can accept that Rey manages to turn Kylo's mind probe back on him, because she's been established as a character who can very quickly figure out how things work and use them to her advantage. It makes less sense to me, however, that in the very next scene Rey uses the Jedi mind trick on a stromtrooper, even though she's never seen it used and, for all we know, doesn't even know that such a thing is possible. By the end of the film, when Rey beats Kylo in a lightsaber duel despite never having wielded the weapon before, it's hard not to feel that her awesomeness is being layered on a bit thick.

None of this, however, makes Rey a bad character, because the more competent and powerful she becomes, the greater the challenges the film throws in her path. There is, in addition, something deeply compelling, and quietly heroic, about the matter of fact attitude that Rey takes towards her own abilities, her obvious belief that she is always the person for the job because she's always been able to do it. Early in the film, she announces that she is waiting for her family--for, it's strongly implied, years and even decades. "They'll be back, though," she says simply. The strength required to maintain that faith (and the toll that it nevertheless takes on Rey, whose constant motion is clearly an attempt to tamp down deep-seated anxiety) shines through her every action, and it's that same strength that powers Rey's incredible skill and competence. It also helps that Rey sparks delightfully with Finn and Han, both of whom are able to keep up with her quick mind. Some of the best scenes in the movie involve Rey and Finn or Rey and Han furiously discussing a problem and rushing towards a solution at a breakneck pace, quipping at each other all the way. In the end, the reason that The Force Awakens works as well as it does is that it has Rey at its heart, and that her heart is so obviously pure and true.



The first comment also makes a good point:

Richard Weiss said...
I thought there was a clear difference between Finn and Rey, which shaped Finn as the more dynamic and clear-cut protagonist of the movie.

Between Finn and Rey, Fin is the one who’s constantly exercising agency. In a very real way, it’s his actions that get the movie rolling - his decision to defect, his decision to free Poe, his decision to steal a TIE fighter, etc. When he gets to Jakku Village (or whatever) he runs into Rey and BB8, and then decides to pose as a Resistance fighter and join them. Then he leads the other characters in their flight from the TIE fighters. He decides to abandon everyone else on Takodana, and then, when he sees his friends threatened, he decides to re-join. When he gets to Resistance HQ, he decides that he’s going to lie to the Resistance about having a plan to disable the shields so they’ll get him to Starkiller base - all the while it’s his plan to just try and save Rey. At Starkiller Base, he’s even ordering Han and Chewie around. While Finn is never really more than competent, he’s always running around, always in motion, always trying to change his predicament. Finn is kinetic.

Rey is almost the exact opposite. For all that Rey is a Mary Sue/Supremely Capable Badass - she’s a remarkably passive character. When we first meet her, she’s in an almost literal purgatory, which she shows no interest of leaving. She sits on a desert planet, as far away from the action as possible, eking out a (literal) subsistence living scavenging for parts. Not quite a slave, not quite free, she has the know-how to expertly fly and maintain a spaceship she has never been inside but no interest in doing so. She’s an expert mechanic, has the ability to beat up anyone she comes across, but never does more with her talents than continue her subsistence life at the edge of the settlement. Every night, she sits and waits, staring, waiting. If Finn is kinetic, Rey is all potential. Rey is also interia. After they leave Jakku, Finn wants to just get somewhere else so he can restart his life, but Rey just wants to get back to Jakku so she can continue waiting. Rey has an almost John from Cincinnati-like ability to come up with whatever is necessary to overcome any obstacle, but she has to be pushed into those obstacles by other characters, mostly Finn.

There’s a nicely illustrative scene where Finn and Rey are running from the TIE airstrike on Jakku. Finn keeps grabbing Rey’s hand when he starts to run, while Rey keeps grimacing and tearing her hand away while she’s running. The straight up read on this is that Rey is a badass and doesn’t need Finn to help her run. But note that Finn is always the first to run and that he’s literally pulling Rey around.

I wonder if this contrast between Finn and Rey is intentional on the part of the writers, or it’s the result of a bunch of male writers getting together and trying to create a Strong Female Protagonist by making her perfect but neglecting to give her any agency. I think it’s way too heavy handed to be the latter.


In the comments, she also point out that Todd Alcott has written some posts about the film. I haven't read those yet, but I definitely will, given the other things he's written about blockbuster movies I like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

100%. Off comes the mask and I'm thinking, oh. Is that it? He's about as far from threatening as it gets.

Hmm. I think it works powerfully the opposite way, in that under the mask and voice he's just a normal-looking young guy. It humanises him and makes him much more interesting a character than Vader ever was (and I loved Vader, but he really amounted to little more than a big dude with a scary voice. Everything interesting about him came through other characters' conversations).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just returned from a second viewing and have some more ideas for where this story is going. You never know - some of this might be on the money, so don't read if you want to see the next film fresh...

The Max von Sydow character is a surviving dignitary of Alderaan (She will always be royalty to me). He was given the map by Luke under strict instruction to give it to no-one unless his daughter was in danger or looked likely to leave Jakuu of her own accord. The shop-keeper and his spies were contracted to keep direct eyes on Rey and give her measly portions so she wouldn't have the means to escape. However the rise of the darkside, manifested by Kylo Ren and the First Order, forces Sydow to break his word to Luke and offer Leia his location (I have seen too much darkness).

I like just how much of a prick people think Luke as become if they think that he would be willing to basically sell her into slavery to keep her "safe" from the darkside.

As if giving her a shitty life filled with loneliness and hardship would make her less likely to fall to the darkside.

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ANH and TFA are not the same movie. Yes, there are motifs and tropes, or call backs if you will that hark back to the first film but they're not the same.

We also don't need a 90 second video that someone has cobbled together to tell us such a thing. The beats of the two films my often match but the two films have completely different feel. This is an amazing Star Wars sequel, the best since The Empire Strikes Back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the sky box is stuck on a star wars channel. Caught some of TESB and all of ROTJ and now Phantom Menace is on. Hadn't seen it since I saw it in the cinema and I can't get over how shit it is.

Anakins mum might be the worst actress in the world. More of a robot than 3PO.

But it's full of new ideas m8.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ANH and TFA are not the same movie. Yes, there are motifs and tropes, or call backs if you will that hark back to the first film but they're not the same.

We also don't need a 90 second video that someone has cobbled together to tell us such a thing. The beats of the two films my often match but the two films have completely different feel. This is an amazing Star Wars sequel, the best since The Empire Strikes Back.

He said while kicking and screaming. Nah but seriously though it's mostly the same but that doesn't mean it's not an entertaining film. The SWDF needs to calm down a bit though. :lol:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The story is actually very different. I have said this before. But I believe this is the full story completely in reverse, which is a fucking cool idea. Focusing on one dude who is on the path of darkness and his nemesis is Rey. Luke and Rey were both raised in a dessert but they are opposite really. One is whiny teenage boy who does not know his ass from his elbow and needs Ben to wipe his ass when he does a number two, the other is a strong lady who is very capable and will kick your ass. She does not even need a jedi mentor to use a light saber and fuck you up, even if you have trained with a fucking sith lord.

If you reduce it enough all movies are the same, it's called the Hero's Journey. This is not a discovery this chap made for his youtube channel. I only wish I did not have to wait 6 years to watch the full story unfold. I think it is a clever way to make it be very similar and very interesting at the same time. Memento meets Start Wars.

They are traversing the circle in reverse in the course of 3 movies.

post-26293-0-48500900-1451065091_thumb.p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He said while kicking and screaming. Nah but seriously though it's mostly the same but that doesn't mean it's not an entertaining film. The SWDF needs to calm down a bit though. :lol:

You've made mostly the same post but using slightly different words over 20 times in this thread...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, the more I think about it the more i'm disappointed by the Starkiller Base. Someone upthread pointed out that Ren had even mentioned that the rest of the map was in the Imperial Archives - how much better would it have been to have as the third act a heist into the Imperial Archives to get the map, using Finn's First Order inner knowledge? It would also be easy to build the action finales around that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.