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No Hd In Xbox 2?


JPickford (retired mod)
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Talk Xbox's source (xbox-evolved.com) recently received an email from Microsoft PR, stating that the Xbox 2 will NOT come with a hard drive, although there will be a package which will contain one. This is said to be due to cutting the manufacturing cost of the Xbox 2 console.

Also we have been informed the Xbox 2 will not play the Xbox 1 games, this is due to NVIDIA causing problems with Microsoft, as we know Microsoft plans to go with ATI for Xbox 2, but without NVIDIA making some sort of emulator, the Xbox 2 will not play the games from the Xbox.

Discuss in our forums: http://www.talkxbox.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1988

 

Post/View Comments n9com - 01.01.04 

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They won't drop the hard disk. Unless they go for some other sort of removable memory sticks that have a higher capacity. This would probably net them a huge amount of cash.

I'd be more surprised if they didn't make it backwards compatible, as that seems to have become a standard feature now. It must be if even Nintendo are thinking of doing it for their next machine.

I'm sure MS will find a way.

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I think lack of backwards compatibility and lack of as hard-drive as standard would both be big negatives for the X-Box 2.

I thought Microsofts stratergy was to build up a fan-base with the first console, making a loss along the way, then get the money back by holding onto them in the second generation.

I'd have though a lot of original X-Box owners would be put off X-Box 2 by the lack of both of these features.

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Hard Drives have a high failure rate after a couple years of life (being a mechanical device), sooner or later you'll see more and more people complaining that their hard drive has died...unless, of course, Microsoft have used some form of alien hard drive which doesn't utilise moving parts.

I was under the impression that they might replace it with some sort of flash RAM, but they say they want to keep costs down.

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If it keeps the price down then it's no big deal, you want a HD you have to pay the extra. Wonder what price point they are looking at this time around? £199?

But if the hard drive isn't there as standard I think developers will be less liekly to make use of it, and it will definately put them off developing games that need a hard drive (and I though having a built in hard-drive as standard was supposed to open up console gaming to a whole new world of possibilities).

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I'd be stunned by the lack of a hard drive.

(i) No downloadable content - which will be one of the places Microsoft will be expecting to make some money on the next generation.

(ii) It's one of the bits of the XBox which has got a *universally* good reaction so far.

(iii) The cost issue is a misnomer - how much is Microsoft going to be paying for 8 gig hard disks now?

(iv) Far harder to sell the XBox 2 as a generalised multimedia centre / PSX.

No backward compatibility would be easier to understand.

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Maybe they got paranoid about modding and downloading game images?

Could be that they just chucked the HD in the first one because they couldn't get a console that used DirectX to run without it and they wanted a console out in time to compete with PS2.

Still, it seems kind of silly to get rid of it...

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(iv) Far harder to sell the XBox 2 as a generalised multimedia centre / PSX.

That's a good point actually.

Though maybe they'll go for selling a standard X-Box 2, and an X-Box 2+ which has all the multimedia PVR stuff in it too.

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.::: Hmm... I'm still wodnering if this 'official word' is true. It seems a bit out of place. Also not having an HD would rule out backwards compatibility with some games in the first place. (Wouldn't Blinx be impossible for instance? ;P)

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But...but....but everything is solid-state out the box at the mo...DVD recorders, Personal Music players...even Video Cameras....

MS chasing the dollar as usual.

.::: Wait, wait, wait... We're going back to solid-state?

I can hear cries of torment from Nintendo's HQ already... :mellow:

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.::: Hmm... I'm still wodnering if this 'official word' is true. It seems a bit out of place. Also not having an HD would rule out backwards compatibility with some games in the first place. (Wouldn't Blinx be impossible for instance? ;P)

Haven't Bungie gone on record to say that Halo would be impossible without the Hard Drive?

(Though we can subtract a few credibility marks since they're owned by Microsoft).

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Hmm, one wonders why TalkXbox has the privilige of receiving important Xbox information before the press or official websites, but if it's true it's a stupid move, especially if they want to keep on pushing the Live-thing. No HD means no patches, no downloadable content and other typical Xbox features like custom soundtracks also become impossible. No backward compatibility is understandable, but might alienate part of the original Xbox userbase. On the other hand, it never caused Nintendo any serious problems.

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No backward compatibility is understandable, but might alienate part of the original Xbox userbase. On the other hand, it never caused Nintendo any serious problems.

But it's a relatively new thing in consoles.

As far as I know, the PS2 was the first console to offer it out of the box.

After then, it's kind of caught on (though the GameCube couldn't easily offer it due to the switch from cartridge to disk).

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I'd be stunned by the lack of a hard drive.

(iii) The cost issue is a misnomer - how much is Microsoft going to be paying for 8 gig hard disks now?

There are certain base material and production costs for any harddrive, that won’t get any lower for a foreseeable future, no matter how small the capacity of the drive.

And remember, they are STILL losing money on EVERY SINGLE xbox sold, and no small amount too.

That is probably going to continue, until eventually, they stop production.

They obviously want to avoid that next generation.

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I'd find the lack of backwards compatibility a turn off tbh. It's one of the main reasons my PS2 is allowed to live downstairs. I've also grown accustomed to the custom soundtracks so I guess I'd kinda miss em.

However, I'd like to see the next iteration of the xbox being a bit smaller (PS2 size at least)

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And remember, they are STILL losing money on EVERY SINGLE xbox sold, and no small amount too.

That is probably going to continue, until eventually, they stop production.

They obviously want to avoid that next generation.

They were initially losing US $150 or thereabouts but I'd be surpised if it were still that amount now. I thought that was part of the decision to go with off-the-shelf parts in the Xbox -- the cost of producing it would get cheaper a lot faster than other consoles like the PS2 with it's dedicated chipset.

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And remember, they are STILL losing money on EVERY SINGLE xbox sold, and no small amount too.

That is probably going to continue, until eventually, they stop production.

They obviously want to avoid that next generation.

They were initially losing US $150 or thereabouts but I'd be surpised if it were still that amount now. I thought that was part of the decision to go with off-the-shelf parts in the Xbox -- the cost of producing it would get cheaper a lot faster than other consoles like the PS2 with it's dedicated chipset.

I think the opposite is true. Off the shelf parts reduced development cost but kept production costs high. MS are at the mercy of their suppliers. And there is basically zero chance of integrating several components into one (cheaper) chip as those components are made\owned by different companies.

Sony & Nintendo own all their own tech, so it's easier for them to reduce costs.

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They were initially losing US $150 or thereabouts but I'd be surpised if it were still that amount now. I thought that was part of the decision to go with off-the-shelf parts in the Xbox. -- the cost of producing it would get cheaper a lot faster than other consoles like the PS2 with it's dedicated chipset.

It is actually the other way around.

Sony make their own ICs and PCBs, so they are free to scale the technology any way they want.

Recently, they managed to cram both the Emotion Engine and the Graphics Synthesizer on to one single die. That is going to cut production costs by a lot.

microsoft on the other hand don't own anything. They will just have to take what they can get, from the various manufactures and chip designers, at the price they can negotiate.

Obviously, they won't get for example Nvidia and Intel to cooperate, and make single chip with NV2A and Celeron on it, and certainly not now after they "backstabbed" them both.

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The Xbox hard-drive is used for:

*Savegames / there's still memory cards

*Downloadable content / It's still a minority that are on the xbox online, due to needing broadband and a router

*Customisable Soundtracks / a bit of a novelty

*Pirating / I'm really sure they don't want that

It's part of the reason why the xbox is so huge

maybe they're putting in some sort of big memory ramdrive for stuff like streaming. ?

Backwards compatibilty:

*Is useful (obviously) / you still have the old console so don't moan

*Makes the console much slower as the bus has to be based on old technology

*Is going to be really hard anyway as there's all sorts of new chipsets in the Xbox 2

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The Xbox hard-drive is used for:

*Savegames / there's still memory cards

*Downloadable content / It's still a minority that are on the xbox online, due to needing broadband and a router

*Customisable Soundtracks / a bit of a novelty

*Pirating / I'm really sure they don't want that

There is an area of the Xbox's hard drive that is used as a cache and "working area" for games that are running. This is what stops the annoying loadtimes and keeps things nice an fluid *

* Non techhie explanation from the best of my knowledge - feel free to correct it

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I think the opposite is true. Off the shelf parts reduced development cost but kept production costs high. MS are at the mercy of their suppliers. And there is basically zero chance of integrating several components into one (cheaper) chip as those components are made\owned by different companies.

Sony & Nintendo own all their own tech, so it's easier for them to reduce costs.

I suppose that would be true but according to this Moores law that everyone babbles on about -- there's no way that those companies could charge the same amount after 2 years of production. If the companies that make these things find cheaper ways to produce them, then wouldn't they sell it for less? I'm not convinced that having to integrate everything onto a single chipset is the only way to reduce costs.

I mean, it's Microsoft. Fuck with them and you're just asking for a hostile takeover.

Even if I'm wrong, does anyone agree that the XBox can't be as much to produce as it was initially. As someone mentioned, Sony managed to cram two chipsets together - but it's taken them all this time? I can't quite remember, but when was the PS2 released, 2000? Almost 4 years.

Perhaps Xbox costs don't have the potential to drop as drastically, but they drop faster?

Beats me.

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