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"an Interactive History Of Video Games"


Mike1812
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Lara Croft is one of the most boring and least inspired characters ever. Even the designers know that - in a preview of Tomb Raider in OPM, I distinctly remember them uttering the words "If you're going to spend a game looking at a character's arse, you may as well make it a good one".

She's eye candy for the lads, blown out of proportion by an uninformed media who think she's a feminist icon because she shoots things. Ms Pacman's been battling bad guys for longer and even Princess Peach has been known to throw a few veggies about.

I remember Tomb Raider for being a game with an impressive engine and plenty of interesting exploration. Lara Croft was an accidental success.

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"If you're going to spend a game looking at a character's arse, you may as well make it a good one"

Impeccable logic, as far as I'm concerned, and hardly a slur on the character. Personally I think that it's a great compliment to Lara that she's managed to gain the status she has when she's so rarely viewed from anywhere but behind. She's probably the only truly iconic 3d game character that we've had.

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Impeccable logic, as far as I'm concerned, and hardly a slur on the character. Personally I think that it's a great compliment to Lara that she's managed to gain the status she has when she's so rarely viewed from anywhere but behind. She's probably the only truly iconic 3d game character that we've had.

It's not a slur on the character, it's a slur on every single person who's ever elevated her above her position as eye candy in a computer game because they believe that there was some sort of deeper meaning behind her creation.

It's like Room 101 last night, where Merton told a tale of a critic who dissected a directors use of B&W toward the end of a film in the usual critical way, when in actual fact they'd just run out of colour film.

Lara Croft - big tits and a cute butt. Hardly does anything to dispel the stereotype of gamers as pathetic losers with no real world connection.

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Exactly - and besides many games have had rather attractive females in them. Take any beat-em-up, for example, which show far stronger women than Lara taking control and kicking arse.

I never saw Chun-Li on the cover of The Face and I dare say SFII was played by more gamers than the whole Tomb Raider series together.

The media saw something and blew it up, proving once again the contempt they really have for games.

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Supposedly attractive women (and men) are used to sell a lot of stuff. It's not just young boys who buy into it. Also, if Lara Croft wasn't how she is then she'd just be Indiana Jones. I think the general sexing up of the character came after she was famous anyway, I certainly don't remembering noticing it when I first played the game - she hardly said anything, had triangular breasts and was a complete tom boy (perhaps irrelevant)!.

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Lara Croft - big tits and a cute butt. Hardly does anything to dispel the stereotype of gamers as pathetic losers with no real world connection.

What, you think she should have an uncute butt? Would she have been a more tolerable character if the behind that you spend the whole game looking at were unutterably hideous? She's not all that exploitative as she is now, is she? I agree with you that she may have been overanalysed, but I don't think she's the terrible advertisment for gaming that some people seem to think she is.

I never saw Chun-Li on the cover of The Face and I dare say SFII was played by more gamers than the whole Tomb Raider series together.

She wasn't the main character though, was she? In fact, she was the only female character in the game. She can't be considered a symbol of progress in the same way that Lara has been.

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That's all complete self-conscious rubbish. I'm sorry but if people are hung up about Lara's tits n ass sale point then I find that pretty ironic. Every single media and art form has had some sort of thrive or boost from sexual objectification at some point, whether you agree with it or not, whether that's short term or not, whether the game/film/TV show/book/perfume is any good or not.

Lara is, admit it, pretty distinctive. And I'm fairly sure the first Tomb Raider game sold more copies than SF2 - in the UK at least, let's just limit the discussion to there as this is The Sunday Times UK's supplement we're talking about, and their content needs to be/is designed to be relevant to where it's published. Ergo more people will have played Tomb Raider games than SF2 - especially when the TR games have been released on various formats across the generations. I'd say in that context Lara Croft has made a far wider reaching cultural impact as an icon than any plumber or forgettable racing game.

The TR games' hero may ultimately have all the modern relevance of Jordan and that's what people should be bemoaning; that games themselves haven't achieved anything more popular than something that is base and tits n ass - NOT that that's all some non-gamers can remember.

Anyway, this is pointless. Someone else has pointed out that Pac-Man is right there next to Lara Croft - best of both worlds.

Edit: Mayfair Rick and Jim Miles have said similar things to me but much clearer.

I guess what I mean is: Lara was/is popular in the media and amongst lads. She had one/two/three/whatever your opinion how many good games, some of which sold extremely well. These are facts - just get over them.

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That's all complete self-conscious rubbish. I'm sorry but if people are hung up about Lara's tits n ass sale point then I find that pretty ironic. Every single media and art form has had some sort of thrive or boost from sexual objectification at some point, whether you agree with it or not, whether that's short term or not, whether the game/film/TV show/book/perfume is any good or not.

Lara is, admit it, pretty distinctive. And I'm fairly sure the first Tomb Raider game sold more copies than SF2 - in the UK at least, let's just limit the discussion to there as this is The Sunday Times UK's supplement we're talking about, and their content needs to be/is designed to be relevant to where it's published. Ergo more people will have played Tomb Raider games than SF2 - especially when the TR games have been released on various formats across the generations. I'd say in that context Lara Croft has made a far wider reaching cultural impact as an icon than any plumber or forgettable racing game.

The TR games' hero may ultimately have all the modern relevance of Jordan and that's what people should be bemoaning; that games themselves haven't achieved anything more popular than something that is base and tits n ass - NOT that that's all some non-gamers can remember.

Anyway, this is pointless. Someone else has pointed out that Pac-Man is right there next to Lara Croft - best of both worlds.

Edit: Mayfair Rick and Jim Miles have said similar things to me but much clearer.

I guess what I mean is: Lara was/is popular in the media and amongst lads. She had one/two/three/whatever your opinion how many good games, some of which sold extremely well. These are facts - just get over them.

I'm sure that part of the problem with picking Lara Croft for the cover of a supplement entitled "...History of Video Games" indicates that not only are The Sunday Times totally out of touch with today's gaming demographic, but because Lara Croft is an easy figure to use it shows, in a sense, that it will not be as thouroughly researched as it should be.

Hell, I'm even holding out that they start "properly" (prior years will be filled with bullet points) in 1996.

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I'm sure that part of the problem with picking Lara Croft for the cover of a supplement entitled "...History of Video Games" indicates that not only are The Sunday Times totally out of touch with today's gaming demographic, but because Lara Croft is an easy figure to use it shows, in a sense, that it will not be as thouroughly researched as it should be.

But didn't even the most recent and shittest of all the TR games sell loads during summer of 2003 irregardless of its quality? Lara Croft and her adventures must have meant something to those thousands of people that went out to buy it (although it won't have been that many, admittedly, given that there are hardly any other games out in the early summer months anyway).

Plus, all that stuff oorbroon said about paid for content is another of the real problem with this complaint - complain about how it *might* read, etc. (It's not out yet, remember) - but you may not be justified in criticising The Times either; what if Eidos paid to have her on the cover, eh? And what if they outbid Sega or Namco by a quid to get her there?

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Lara Croft isn't big today. She's tiny. The game underperformed as did the film. So she's a pointless choice. It'd be like a history of football that includes a pic of Arsenal on the cover.

I'd argue that all the characters are pointless choices. While I'd prefer Mario over Lara, why does gaming need a character at all? The major sellers today don't have characters. Medal of Honor, FIFA, The Sims and the like are sold on what appeals to the casual gamer more - doing something they want to do. Build a house, take part in a war or play footy.

The cover should be empty except for a title.

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They needed to put SOMETHING iconic about videogames on the cover, and apart from Pac-Man (included) and possibly Pong rackets and Tetris blocks (easily confused with other objects), I can't think of much that the average joe on the street would recognise from a game.

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, I certainly don't remembering noticing it when I first played the game - she hardly said anything, had triangular breasts and was a complete tom boy (perhaps irrelevant)!.

I'm probably wrong but didn't the Lara Mania strike up during the Tomb Raider 2 period, when they gave her really big breasts and sillicone lips? In Tomb Raider 1, the only good game in the series ironically, she had a much smaller chest and didn't look like Lola Ferrari

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And hence could feasibly be as athletic without having black eyes.

Anyhow, the cover should be a central text saying "THE HISTORY OF VIDEOGAMES", and surrounding it should be screenshots of every game ever to acheive classic status, modern or otherwise.

Then they can put Lara in there, because TR1 was a damn fine game.

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I'm probably wrong but didn't the Lara Mania strike up during the Tomb Raider 2 period, when they gave her really big breasts and sillicone lips? In Tomb Raider 1, the only good game in the series ironically, she had a much smaller chest and didn't look like Lola Ferrari

That's exactly what I was thinking.

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I think its fair enough to have Pac-Man and Lara on the fron of a history of videogames, from the beginnings of Pac-Man to the modern era of video games, I still remember the first time I saw Tomb Raider running on the playstation and was amazed at the move to 3D and the grace of her movement (especially the swan dive, it was beautiful)

It was the first time a human character had believably been represented in a 3D game and shown to the masses, and the glory of the step up into 3D being such that people took note, 'shit look, it isn't a cartoon like all the other games before it, this is real' and Lara became the obvious choice to be the face to represent it.

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