The Trouble with Nintendo. A TL;DR topic.

[pulsemyne]

The marketing is fucking awful. Oh wait there has been no marketing. Which is odd as the one thing they did exceptionally well during the DS/Wii years was the marketing.

[NEG]

'proper Nintendo IP'... so a 2D Mario game isn't a proper Nintendo game any more? What universe is this?

It's the same 2D Mario game since 2006.

[SMD]

[scottcr]

It's the same 2D Mario game since 2006.

if Sega released a 2D sonic half as good as NSMBU, your cock would fall off.

[Meers]

Well said, Whawah.

I used to be a Nintendophile like most of us, but with the Wii they chased me off. They will win me back once they announce new 'core' (no waggle) iterations of the following franchises simultaneously: Waverace, Metroid (2D), Pilotwings, F-Zero and Starfox. On a machine that does HD graphics and DD sound. 3D not required.

[Dimahoo]

I dont think they can ever win me back.

[SMD]

Okay.

[NEG]

if Sega released a 2D sonic half as good as NSMBU, your cock would fall off.

Says the guy that didn't play/finish Super Mario World. (or was it Bros3?)

Criminal, either way.

[scottcr]

If they released an x86 based kick ass machine and some proper Nintendo IP* they would have my money immediately.

*Starfox, Metroid, 3d mario, Zelda, Mario Kart...2 of those at launch, at a level similar to the new consoles. Where the fuck is Metroid Prime 4.

Why would the bother about it being x86?

And why does it have to be 'at a similar level to the new consoles'... you haven't seen these games... so you don't know what the difference will be like.

[Transient Curse]

the trouble with Nintendo is massively entitled hardcore gamers.

Had Nintendo released a throbbing cock of a console - it would have made no difference at all to 3rd party support.

There's. No. Games.

[HarryBizzle]

Agree with everything in the OP.

On top of all that though, I have to say, most Nintendo games just aren't that amazing. Sure, they're all to some standard but when the device you're playing them on is really just for Nintendo games, I don't think they're good enough to warrant buying a console to play. I bought a Wii (I only paid £20 for it) just to play Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. These were games that people were losing their minds over and they just weren't that unbelievably spectacular to me. In fact, I don't think there are any Wii games which fit that descriptor for me (I played both Zeldas as well and a few other games). The last Nintendo games that I thought were really something amazing were F-Zero GX and Metroid Prime.

The other thing is that people seem to let Nintendo get away with things they otherwise wouldn't. Zelda in particular annoys the living hell out of me because the world is dead, the people are robots who don't move and just repeat the same gibberish no matter how many times you talk to them and the games are basically just reskinned each time. They've been using the same mechanics for years and haven't really tried to change how you interact with the world beyond giving you a new toy or two to move statues around and solve puzzles, or something.

Another example would be games like Nintendoland and Pilot Wings which came out with the 3DS (or roughly the same time, I dunno). They can put out these games which no one would normally give the time of day to, or wouldn't let get away with being so light as content as Pilot Wings yet they'll end up with people telling you that they're actually really great and you can spend a lot of time with each of them if you want to do every little thing. At the same time, other consoles will be in the middle of their lifespans, with amazing games coming out faster than you can keep up but these people will be mucking around with Nintendoland and telling you how amazing it is.

[NEG]

Obligatory 'Skyward Sword sucks' post.

[danbot]

There's. No. Games.

Yeah but apart from that it's great.

[Dimahoo]

I think one problem is Nintendo have lost the plot when it comes to giving the player excitement. I don't think people get excited by a Nintendo game anymore and even if they do, it was just one game - one that you think - well okay, i'm sure it plays alright but many games "play alright".

But they're more exciting as well.

You are getting Project CARS though so theres that. But i'm already playing that on my N...N...Nvidia.

[scottcr]

My rep is a bit fucked - looks like the best way to get it back is to give Nintendo a good pounding.

I think one problem is Nintendo have lost the plot when it comes to giving the player excitement. I don't think people get excited by a Nintendo game anymore and even if they do, it was just one game - one that you think - well okay, i'm sure it plays alright but many games "play alright".

But they're more exciting as well.

You are getting Project CARS though so theres that. But i'm already playing that on my N...N...Nvidia.

why then would you be even remotely interested in playing that on a console... Nintendo have never made a realistic racer. Thankfully.

Agree with everything in the OP.

On top of all that though, I have to say, most Nintendo games just aren't that amazing. Sure, they're all to some standard but when the device you're playing them on is really just for Nintendo games, I don't think they're good enough to warrant buying a console to play. I bought a Wii (I only paid £20 for it) just to play Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. These were games that people were losing their minds over and they just weren't that unbelievably spectacular to me. In fact, I don't think there are any Wii games which fit that descriptor for me (I played both Zeldas as well and a few other games). The last Nintendo games that I thought were really something amazing were F-Zero GX and Metroid Prime.

The other thing is that people seem to let Nintendo get away with things they otherwise wouldn't. Zelda in particular annoys the living hell out of me because the world is dead, the people are robots who don't move and just repeat the same gibberish no matter how many times you talk to them and the games are basically just reskinned each time. They've been using the same mechanics for years and haven't really tried to change how you interact with the world beyond giving you a new toy or two to move statues around and solve puzzles, or something.

Another example would be games like Nintendoland and Pilot Wings which came out with the 3DS (or roughly the same time, I dunno). They can put out these games which no one would normally give the time of day to, or wouldn't let get away with being so light as content as Pilot Wings yet they'll end up with people telling you that they're actually really great and you can spend a lot of time with each of them if you want to do every little thing. At the same time, other consoles will be in the middle of their lifespans, with amazing games coming out faster than you can keep up but these people will be mucking around with Nintendoland and telling you how amazing it is.

maybe some people actually enjoy Nintendoland

[Transient Curse]

My rep is a bit fucked - looks like the best way to get it back is to give Nintendo a good pounding.

No idea. Why not take part in a debate rather than just posting about how much you love something and trying to undermine anyone who says differently with a series of strawmen.

[El Spatula]

Why are you thankful that Nintendo haven't made a realistic racer? It could be awesome. Probably not but hey.

[scottcr]

No idea. Why not take part in a debate rather than just posting about how much you love something and trying to undermine anyone who says differently with a series of strawmen.

rllmuk bingo - strawmen.

I could go on and on and on, like I have, about all the things I really like - but no one wants to hear it anyway. I've also mentioned the things I don't like - but it's the same.

I'm one of those weirdos who actually really likes the gamepad, thinks NSMBU and Nintendoland are top drawer Nintendo quality games, I think ZombiU is one of the best survival horror games made in years. I think playing Cod 2 player online when my pal is up on a Friday night is great. I think split screen Sonic Racing is a riot and the second screen adds a nice new twist to playing Batman in that I need to get to safety before I can mess around with my little wrist mounted computer and can't use it half way during a fight to get a breather.

But, I'm mental obviously... so what's the point?

[El Spatula]

Tiresome more than mental.

[scottcr]

Tiresome more than mental.

who'd have thought that gaming should be so serious.

[SMD]

Tiresome is when people keep expecting Nintendo to make non-Nintendo games. You know what they're like, it's daft to expect anything else.

[Transient Curse]

rllmuk bingo - strawmen.

I could go on and on and on, like I have, about all the things I really like - but no one wants to hear it anyway. I've also mentioned the things I don't like - but it's the same.

I'm one of those weirdos who actually really likes the gamepad, thinks NSMBU and Nintendoland are top drawer Nintendo quality games, I think ZombiU is one of the best survival horror games made in years. I think playing Cod 2 player online when my pal is up on a Friday night is great. I think split screen Sonic Racing is a riot and the second screen adds a nice new twist to playing Batman in that I need to get to safety before I can mess around with my little wrist mounted computer and can't use it half way during a fight to get a breather.

But, I'm mental obviously... so what's the point?

This topic's not about you liking the gamepad or Sonic Racing though. It's about Nintendo being very conservative with money. You do this in every topic about Nintendo, just start telling everyone that you love the games that are out and for some reason someone replies to you and then you go on and on until nobody can remember what the topic's about anymore. Stop.

There are still no games.

[scottcr]

This topic's not about you liking the gamepad or Sonic Racing though. It's about Nintendo being very conservative with money. You do this in every topic about Nintendo, just start telling everyone that you love the games that are out and for some reason someone replies to you and then you go on and on until nobody can remember what the topic's about anymore. Stop.

There are still no games.

I refer you to my first post in this thread. What do you want me to add?

I've also said a number of times in a number of threads that, for people not like me, the lack of a 3D mario at launch has really hurt them. I also said in another thread that Nintendo always give themselves a hard time, always have since the N64 days. They haven't learned from the mistakes of the Gamecube and why the 'core' abandoned the Wii. I've mentioned these things numerous times... but hey.

[JohnC]

There's. No. Games.

Funnily enough, I was in Tesco earlier, an Extra actually, and said those exact words. They were selling the console but there wasn't a single game available

[scottcr]

and perhaps the lack of marketing has been because they feel they don't have the games in place to back it up? So - sell to early adopters, where they thought there'd be about 5 million of them, turned out there wasn't...

there will be games... it's not as if 3 months down the line Nintendo go 'oh fuck this lark' and get out. There will be a 3D Mario, Smash Bros and a new Zelda. Bayonetta 2 is exclusive and coming pretty soon. Wonderful 101 just looks like 101% gamey game.

[Dimahoo]

why then would you be even remotely interested in playing that on a console... Nintendo have never made a realistic racer. Thankfully.

But thats what the players wanted. It doesn't have to be realistic. Just Not. Mario. Kart. again.

I actually did you a favour mentioning it. They might sell another console now.

[Let us measure]

Even though, if pressed, I would be forced to confess to being a fully paid-up member of the NDF...

NDF! NDF!

... I have to agree with almost everything that Wahwah (whose username quite ironically brings to mind one of Nintendo's current most-flogged horses) says. That's why I haven't yet got a WiiU. I do disagree with this bit however -

5) Tight arses

How old's this game now? 25 years. How many times have people bought it now? About 5 times each. Hmm. How much shall we sell it on the E-Shop for? £12? Hmm. Let's go for £13.99. Nintendo sell everything from their back catalogue at “it'd be rude to” prices. Who wants this stuff enough to pay real money for them? As in, in significant numbers? Do I want to buy their system when I know I'm going to be paying top price for everything all the time? I'm not so keen. Will I get to keep those purchases? No, the account doesn't transfer and they want to charge me again later.

I know it's a tired argument that everyone's heard a billion times before, but Nintendo aren't twisting anybody's arm here. They're not forcing you to re-purchase Super Mario Bros. for the eighth time. But I can defend my right as a fan of Nintendo since the NES and as a consumer to have access to their back catalogue and to be able to buy Warioland 2 or Tetris or Ocarina of Time for the price of a Costa coffee with mozzarella panini. I love the fact that old Nintendo games are never really out of print, that they take their heritage seriously and treat their IPs with respect (as opposed to say Sega and their franchises of old, titles from which are slapped on budget compilation discs made by companies who don't give a shit, cheapening the value of the brand and the respective IPs).

If I want to own Terminator 2, I order it online from Amazon. If I want to own Super Mario RPG, I download it from the Virtual Console at much the same price. I don't see a problem here.

[gizmo1990]

But thats what the players wanted. It doesn't have to be realistic. Just Not. Mario. Kart. again.

I actually did you a favour mentioning it. They might sell another console now.

Hang on are you saying people don't want a new mario kart?

[Dimahoo]

Nintendo fans might.

But baying to your fans doesn't win the overall war.

I mean i don't think they'll have much chance this gen. The difference is their old "family" userbase are a fickle crowd and many have moved on from the Wii to a tablet.

But the 360/PS3 crowd - oooh they're a different breed and they don't appear to have done anything to appease them.

My daughters 11 and she texted me last night about if i've got my Ps4 (she actually thinks its out). She's not even mentoned the WiiU.

Cameron did, but he's not that bothered (he got an Kindle).

I mean WTF did Sony do last night to appease my daughter?

She wasn't even at home.

[scottcr]

I think the sales figures for MK7 and MKWii demonstrate that quite a few people like those games - even more than like Forza!