The Trouble with Nintendo. A TL;DR topic.

[El Spatula]

I certainly ain't interested in a new Mario Kart. I want new things.

[Dimahoo]

I think the sales figures for MK7 and MKWii demonstrate that quite a few people like those games - even more than like Forza!

We're talking WiiU. Different machine generation. Different mental generation.

[DarhkFox]

I think the thing is that Nintendo really want to capture the kids/young family market. They are still in the knowledge that it is their biggest market and that they feel out of their depth when creating a console that keeps older gamers happy.

Unfourtunatly the rest of the world sees this as a problem and question why Nintendo are not doing better to compete with the other consoles when it seems like it's not really in their interest.

Regarding new IP - Nintendo have tried a few games in the past and they haven't done as well as other games such a Mario & Zelda. They do need to take chances - after all besides a few new IP in the past decade or so (wario ware/pikmin/animal crossing/smash bros) there isn't really much else (and even those games are sometimes based on existing nintendo property).

I do agree that Nintendo are cheap - their consoles are defintely "made on the cheap" compared to xbox/sony. However, Nintendo appears to always make a profit - something that others take years to do.

In all honesty, i think Nintendo should do a sega and go third party. Save money on R&D and concentrate on the games. Nintendo can produce handhelds as they do have a good market share, but with the advent of smartphones i am not sure for how much longer. I would be very sad to see nintendo stop making consoles but unless they up their game this isn't going to happen.

Saying this, i think all the consoles are going to struggle next gen. Games with better graphics just arnt cutting it anymore. They need to provide something new and i don't see it happening anytime soon.

[angel]

Why would the bother about it being x86?

And why does it have to be 'at a similar level to the new consoles'... you haven't seen these games... so you don't know what the difference will be like.

So they receive games ..from that huge Sony 3rd party list..you know..you buy your machine and get games from all the big 3rd parties. Skyrim on a nintendo system? No chance. COD? finally a version that looks good...and no one online.

Imagine a nintendo system that lets you play proper 3rd party games AND Nintendos own. Not just dribs and drabs of weird ports, minigame compilations, and the occasional nintendo game. Remember the SNES? It was fucking...amazing. All the big devs...all the main franchises. Then what do we get...

n64 - sticks cartridges when theyve been discredited as too expensive...weird hardware...3rd parties all move over to PSX

gamecube - ignores dvds....good but weird hardware...gets inferior ports from 3rd parties.

Wii - underpowered...alienates 3rd parties...again...survives to to public affair with waggle.

DS - fucking terrible

DS lite - amazing...saves nintendo.

Theyre always being deliberately awkward, and it wont wash anymore.

[gizmo1990]

Nintendo fans might.

But baying to your fans doesn't win the overall war.

I mean i don't think they'll have much chance this gen. The difference is their old "family" userbase are a fickle crowd and many have moved on from the Wii to a tablet.

But the 360/PS3 crowd - oooh they're a different breed and they don't appear to have done anything to appease them.

My daughters 11 and she texted me last night about if i've got my Ps4 (she actually thinks its out). She's not even mentoned the WiiU.

Cameron did, but he's not that bothered (he got an Kindle).

I mean WTF did Sony do last night to appease my daughter?

She wasn't even at home.

C'mon now, you may not want a new Mario Kart, your daughter may not want a new Mario Kart but if you don't think a sizeable chunk of people, inc a fair chunk of ps3/360 owners wouldn't want one, you are deluded.

Like I said previously, I agree with everything in the op. But banging this drum that everything Nintendo makes now is old hat and people don't want it is daft. People do still want it, it's just that Nintendo aren't providing enough of it for them! Plus granted, some new stuff as well wouldn't hurt.

[ryodi]

I do agree that Nintendo are cheap - their consoles are defintely "made on the cheap" compared to xbox/sony. However, Nintendo appears to always make a profit - something that others take years to do.

Their first gen handhelds feel like prototypes but their consoles are normally rock solid. Microsoft had to add a 3 year warranty to the 360 because it was so poorly constructed an RROD was almost guaranteed while any BC PS3 that is still running is living on borrowed time if it hasn't died already whereas the Wii which did have it's problems (graphic card breaking, disk read errors) but nowhere near to the level of the other two.

[Dimahoo]

Saying this, i think all the consoles are going to struggle next gen. Games with better graphics just arnt cutting it anymore. They need to provide something new and i don't see it happening anytime soon.

I think graphics will do enough because the move, Kinect and Wiimote have had their day. I'm not sure ppl care for them or whatever originality they bring (if they can implement them cheaper then you may get some bites).

I think they (ps4/360) won't sell as well initially but you've got loads of underground cliques now and they need their appetites wetted. The long cycle means people - your existing Xbox/playstation owner WILL get on board because the Ps4 and 720 will be the only stable platforms to play games big screen.

This does assume MS doesn't mess up with some poor chipset.

I just feel Nintendo have lost their "family" crowd and few from the PS3/Xbox are tagging along.

Maybe i'm wrong about Mario Kart. I'll admit that. I don't really hate it, but theres so much out there i'd rather play.

Obviously thats just me. And my kid.

But i also feel its fair to say a lot of people feel like that.

But yeah...bring out Zelda, Skyfox, hell even F-zero and i won't care for those games. But bring me Driveclub and i'm biting sony's feet. I don't feel Nintendo have that in them right now.

And i think graphics will play an important part in that bite.

[SMD]

So they receive games ..from that huge Sony 3rd party list..you know..you buy your machine and get games from all the big 3rd parties. Skyrim on a nintendo system? No chance. COD? finally a version that looks good...and no one online.

Imagine a nintendo system that lets you play proper 3rd party games AND Nintendos own. Not just dribs and drabs of weird ports, minigame compilations, and the occasional nintendo game. Remember the SNES? It was fucking...amazing. All the big devs...all the main franchises. Then what do we get...

n64 - sticks cartridges when theyve been discredited as too expensive...weird hardware...3rd parties all move over to PSX

gamecube - ignores dvds....good but weird hardware...gets inferior ports from 3rd parties.

Wii - underpowered...alienates 3rd parties...again...survives to to public affair with waggle.

DS - fucking terrible

DS lite - amazing...saves nintendo.

Theyre always being deliberately awkward, and it wont wash anymore.

That's a worst overview of anything since Stormfront did election coverage in the US.

[squirtle]

I can see what the op is saying, but I can't say I've found that the case myself. I own eight games for the Wii U. 3 exclusive, 5 multi format. It gets used every day without fail, if not for games, then my four year old watches Sonic Underground on it off Netflix. Or we use it for Netflix in the evening. It's a more than capable machine that is probably not for everyone, but that second screen, playing Assassins Creed 3 in bed or BLOPS 2... I can't over emphasise how nice and unique and enjoyable that is. Oh and this myth that there is no one online in BLOPS 2 is silly. I've never had a problem finding a game.

[squirtle]

So they receive games ..from that huge Sony 3rd party list..you know..you buy your machine and get games from all the big 3rd parties. Skyrim on a nintendo system? No chance. COD? finally a version that looks good...and no one online.

Imagine a nintendo system that lets you play proper 3rd party games AND Nintendos own. Not just dribs and drabs of weird ports, minigame compilations, and the occasional nintendo game. Remember the SNES? It was fucking...amazing. All the big devs...all the main franchises. Then what do we get...

n64 - sticks cartridges when theyve been discredited as too expensive...weird hardware...3rd parties all move over to PSX

gamecube - ignores dvds....good but weird hardware...gets inferior ports from 3rd parties.

Wii - underpowered...alienates 3rd parties...again...survives to to public affair with waggle.

DS - fucking terrible

DS lite - amazing...saves nintendo.

Theyre always being deliberately awkward, and it wont wash anymore.

This post is amazing. Truly groundbreaking stuff here.

[Let us measure]

gamecube - ignores dvds....good but weird hardware...gets superior ports from 3rd parties.

Fixed.

[DarhkFox]

Their first gen handhelds feel like prototypes but their consoles are normally rock solid. Microsoft had to add a 3 year warranty to the 360 because it was so poorly constructed an RROD was almost guaranteed while any BC PS3 that is still running is living on borrowed time if it hasn't died already whereas the Wii which did have it's problems (graphic card breaking, disk read errors) but nowhere near to the level of the other two.

Their handhelds I agree with.

Their consoles are built very, very well. However, i was more aiming along the lines of the specs of the machines. The graphic specs on the past two gens of their consoles and handhelds could have been better at the very least. It just seems like they are not taking their consoles seriously enough.

I think graphics will do enough because the move, Kinect and Wiimote have had their day. I'm not sure ppl care for them or whatever originality they bring (if they can implement them cheaper then you may get some bites).

I think they (ps4/360) won't sell as well initially but you've got loads of underground cliques now and they need their appetites wetted. The long cycle means people - your existing Xbox/playstation owner WILL get on board because the Ps4 and 720 will be the only stable platforms to play games big screen.

This does assume MS doesn't mess up with some poor chipset.

I just feel Nintendo have lost their "family" crowd and few from the PS3/Xbox are tagging along.

Maybe i'm wrong about Mario Kart. I'll admit that. I don't really hate it, but theres so much out there i'd rather play.

Obviously thats just me. And my kid.

I think most of us who have grown up with Nintendo are starting to get a bit tired of their francises with such few changes, despite the games themselves being made well. It's rare to have glitchy/buggy Nintendo games too.

[Jarik]

I like Nintendo, but ever since I got a PS1 for FFVII to go alongside my N64, I haven't relied on just a Nintendo console to provide my full fill of Home gaming. I suppose that is a failing on Nintendo's part, but I can't see it changing until Nintendo are actually desperate as (as it was put on the Gamelife Podcast) desparate Nintendo is the best Nintendo.

Are they to that point with the 3DS & WiiU just yet?

[angel]

This post is amazing. Truly groundbreaking stuff here.

Im at work give me a break.

[Revival]

Can you do the exact same topic but just change the word Nintendo for Sony as it applies to them also.

Is 'entitled' the new Rllmuk buzzword?

[scottcr]

The 3DS is doing just fine

[squirtle]

I think most of us who have grown up with Nintendo are starting to get a bit tired of their francises with such few changes, despite the games themselves being made well. It's rare to have glitchy/buggy Nintendo games too.

On the whole, this forum is no longer Nintendo's primary audience.

The amusing part will be when they release Super Mario U-niverse, half this forum will go and buy one and then for months after we'll hear nothing but tales of buyer's remorse.

[Jarik]

The 3DS is doing just fine

True, it's my only portable console (I got rid of my Vita) but even there I game a lot on my iPhone, so I don't rely on Nintendo to provide all my portable gaming either.

[layten]

You couldn't be me wrong about the system being cheap to make. It's not. The GPU and the CPU are custom and that means the price to manufacture them is much higher than normal. The gamepad actually isn't that expensive to make. The main cost of the machine is from the GPU and CPU.

For example the CPU is a twaeked version of broadway from the Wii, but it's manufacturing process means that it's cost nintendo quite a lot of produce. IBM never made a powerpc 750 chip at 45 nm before, let alone one with a strange configuration like the WiiU one. The GPU meanwhile is flat out wierd, it's a very differant to the ones in pc graphics cards dispite sharing the same makeup as them.

A lot of thought and thus money has gone into the wiiu's design. It's very efficient for the wattage it uses.

Still they have made mistakes but so far it's nothing that cannot be rectified. In the end it's all about the games. If they start to deliver then the wiiu will look like a nice proposition.

You pay per wafer. 45nm is cheap as shit these days and those chips for Nintendo will be costing a pittance per unit.

[Liquid Myth]

Another cheapness for Nintendo -- they're extraordinarily coy when it comes to anything that has the most remotely unlikely chance that it'll land them in legal bothers. So for the Wii, they released all the PAL stuff in 50hz without considering any alternatives, and then they were about to go full pelt and do it again with the Wii U until some people kicked up a fuss and they did the US version of F-Zero (though that doesn't guarantee a normal speed future for the rest of the VC stuff).

Another single example was the absence of Earthbound on the Wii's VC, which was all but ready to go and presumably pulled at the last minute due to a slew of Beatles references, either in the form of crude graphical references or music created with the SNES' audio capabilities; it's all a bit weak when compared to the recent-ish version of Sonic CD, which featured fully recognisable CD-quality samples from various Western artists throughout, and I really doubt that Sega where going to spend so much on that.

Then you've got the current lock-down on adult (16+) digital content until 11pm-3am for all of Europe, based on the incredibly conservative reading of a German law that is basically the same as the watershed TV laws over here, but instead they get nervous and think it applies to their digital content as well so everyone in Europe suffers at the idea of the wafer-thin risk of ever getting into trouble for misreading it. I mean, they could spend an hour or two to research it and work out a resolve, but they don't.

[Barny]

More NDF please.

[Liquid Myth]

Can you do the exact same topic but just change the word Nintendo for Sony as it applies to them also.

Is 'entitled' the new Rllmuk buzzword?

You really dislike Sony, don't you?

[DarhkFox]

On the whole, this forum is no longer Nintendo's primary audience.

The amusing part will be when they release Super Mario U-niverse, half this forum will go and buy one and then for months after we'll hear nothing but tales of buyer's remorse.

That's kind of what i've been saying. Nintendo's primary concern is making games for the kids. It's their market - the kid's dont give a shit if mario kart 17 is technically the same game are mario kart 8. The rest of the gaming media will by that point just say Nintendo have run out of ideas but the parents will be the ones buying the consoles.

Makes me laugh when a few friends just moan that Mario is just the same game over a over or that Pokemon was fun with only 150 pokemon and the rest don't do anything to the series. (well they dont even try and play them) . Some of these people continue to buy the new COD or Assassins Creed annually though.

[ryodi]

Another cheapness for Nintendo -- they're extraordinarily coy when it comes to anything that has the most remotely unlikely chance that it'll land them in legal bothers. So for the Wii, they released all the PAL stuff in 50hz without considering any alternatives, and then they were about to go full pelt and do it again with the Wii U until some people kicked up a fuss and they did the US version of F-Zero (though that doesn't guarantee a normal speed future for the rest of the VC stuff).

And the PSOne and PS2 games on PSN are their crippled 50Hz versions as well with only the occasional US import available at 60Hz so it's not an exclusively Nintendo problem. My only complaint is the that the account system is still terrible and I'd have liked for them to copy Sony's approach to that. But hey all my WiiWare and VC games transferred to my WiiU without trouble at zero cost and I even have the ability to cheaply update them to play off the gamepad in future when they have sorted that out if I don't want the hassle of using Wii Mode on the WiiU and I can even play all those terrible Wii games as well The PS4 won't have any compatibility with PS3 disks and PSN stuff looks doubtful but it is Nintendo who never give people what they want.

[murray]

And, breathe.

[Barny]

So what are you saying? Nintendo aren't doing anything wrong? Should they just continue doing what they already are doing?

It's an oxymoron that in a business which moves incredibly fast, you have a company which in many areas have been remarkably slow to adapt.

Have I used oxymoron right?

[ryodi]

/breathes out/

If Nintendo tried to compete with Sony / Microsoft on the power front they'd get eaten alive, no one would pay £400 for a new Nintendo console when they can get a PS4 or 720 for around the same price.

[Transient Curse]

/breathes out/

If Nintendo tried to compete with Sony / Microsoft on the power front they'd get eaten alive, no one would pay £400 for a new Nintendo console when they can get a PS4 or 720 for around the same price.

Nintendo's biggest strength is their IP. Sony, particularly, don't have any characters. Who was in the Smash Bros rip off they put out? Err...

If Nintendo released some games with that IP, Sony couldn't compete. As is, Nintendo are letting them run away with it*.

*Not talking Vita, obvs, lol.

[Stolly]

I think Nintendo are stuck in a rut to be honest. The games that I have loved this generation have all been fairly unconventional brand new ideas from left field - just look at Valkyria Chronicles or especially Demons Souls. To be honest having played Demons Souls through (twice) I've been hard pressed to be impressed by any other games since (although Skyrim was brilliant). And although I didn't really get on with it (on the PS3) Bayonetta was more of the same. Then you look at bold new games on the wii and I'm not sure there were any. Especially on the rpg front - Xenoblade was okay I guess and a step in the right direction but I didn't really get on with the combat system. Someone mentioned that Ni No Kuni should have been a wii u game and, having just (eventually) downloaded it and played the first 45 minutes they could be right. But I just don't think the wii u will attract that sort of game. And for sure I don't think Nintendo will never step outside the mould of their now set in tablets of stone same old same old IP.

Its about games and not hardware though and its definitely not about controllers that have to have games built around them!

[SMD]

I think Nintendo are stuck in a rut to be honest. The games that I have loved this generation have all been fairly unconventional brand new ideas from left field - just look at Valkyria Chronicles or especially Demons Souls. To be honest having played Demons Souls through (twice) I've been hard pressed to be impressed by any other games since (although Skyrim was brilliant). And although I didn't really get on with it (on the PS3) Bayonetta was more of the same. Then you look at bold new games on the wii and I'm not sure there were any. Especially on the rpg front - Xenoblade was okay I guess and a step in the right direction but I didn't really get on with the combat system. Someone mentioned that Ni No Kuni should have been a wii u game and, having just (eventually) downloaded it and played the first 45 minutes they could be right. But I just don't think the wii u will attract that sort of game. And for sure I don't think Nintendo will never step outside the mould of their now set in tablets of stone same old same old IP.

Its about games and not hardware though and its definitely not about controllers that have to have games built around them!

I love Valkyria Chronicles but it sold terribly and Sega didn't bother bringing the sequel to the PS3 or even the third one to the West.

As for Bayonetta, it's weird given that Nintendo are specifically bringing the sequel exclusively to the Wii U?

And Ninokuni was on the DS so I'm not sure why you don't think they couldn't attract a game like that, I don't think Level 5 expected it to be in so much demand in the West. Maybe if they make another one, it'll come to the Wii U?

Unconventional games will be more likely to be found on digital services or on portables. So it's up to Nintendo to make sure the eShop has a lot of titles for people like you who just want something different.