The Trouble with Nintendo. A TL;DR topic.

[ras el hanout]

Read the post again, specifically the "step down from previous generations where they could fully support two platforms" bit. Fully supporting one platform instead of two is a decline.

But that's just not true. They've never fully supported two platforms. I mean, that's always been the complaint, not enough first party titles, particularly for their home consoles. Even on the Wii. So you're wrong there.

I think what it is is when the 3DS was struggling they went, fuck it! And threw everything at it and it worked. If they were to do the same with the WiiU then it would be a massive ACCLINE, rather than a DECLINE.

I don't know what the opposite of decline it.

But for me they don't even need to do it, just merge the two better, instead of having two consoles that seem to be competing with each other.

[squirtle]

Incline?

[RubberJohnny]

Again, a decline in the number of platforms, yes. A decline in the number of games, no. And what is the most important one of those two things to us?

Er, if both platforms were fully supported, say your arbitrary number of 20 titles, then that would be 40 games. With one with good support and one with poor support, again, your example of 15 and 5, you'd have 20. That's a long term decline, even if it is better than either of the two modern platforms.

[ras el hanout]

Incline?

It should be.

I mean, just imagine NINTENDOGS on the WiiU. It's a no brainer!

Er, if both platforms were fully supported, say your arbitrary number of 20 titles, then that would be 40 games. With one with good support and one with poor support, again, your example of 15 and 5, you'd have 20. That's a long term decline, even if it is better than either of the two modern platforms.

But that never happened. You've made it up.

Nintendogs for the WiiU and it could go onto the 3DS when you take it for a walk. I mean that is surely the future for Nintendo.

[squirtle]

Er, if both platforms were fully supported, say your arbitrary number of 20 titles, then that would be 40 games. With one with good support and one with poor support, again, your example of 15 and 5, you'd have 20. That's a long term decline, even if it is better than either of the two modern platforms.

That's not what I meant. Hypothetically, I meant that in a year, if Nintendo put out 20 games in total, 15 on the 3DS, 5 on the WiiU, that would not be as good for all parties as if they put out 20 titles for the WiiDS.

[iwata]Please Understand.[/iwata]

[RubberJohnny]

That's not what I meant. Hypothetically, I meant that in a year, if Nintendo put out 20 games in total, 15 on the 3DS, 5 on the WiiU, that would not be as good for all parties as if they put out 20 titles for the WiiDS.

A short term boost can still be a long term decline, I've pointed this out four times to you, you're just being facetious now because you can't think of a counterpoint.

[ras el hanout]

A short term boost can still be a long term decline, I've pointed this out four times to you, you're just being facetious now because you can't think of a counterpoint.

You're not taking into account how the world changes. Advances in technology. You're ignoring the fact that it's only now their home console has two screens.

So I predict instead of 25 games for the 3ds a 5 for the WiiU 40 for the WiiDs

[squirtle]

Facetious? What are you on about?

You've pointed out something that not just myself, but several others, have said is specious reasoning at best.

In your view, Nintendo going from supporting two machines to one is a decline? Have I got that right? Is that your main point?

[RubberJohnny]

Consolidating from two medium-supported machines to one well-supported machine is a decline from two well-supported machines in the past, yes, even if it is better than the current situation.

[ras el hanout]

if it is better than the current situation.

Finally he admits that it would be better. Bit of a struggle but we got there in the end.

[mdn2]

A short term boost can still be a long term decline, I've pointed this out four times to you, you're just being facetious now because you can't think of a counterpoint.

But surely if they have only the R+D costs of one console/handheld hybrid and all their teams are working exclusively on that, how is that a decline? If anything it's managing your resources more effectively. They would probably be able to turn out more stuff than alternating between two pieces of hardware.

EDIT: Ahh, I see. A decline based on earlier hardware.

[squirtle]

Ok, that's where you're coming from, and I can see your point in that you could look at it as a decline.

Alternatively, you could just look at it like Ramone and I are in that they've consolidated their core machines into one machine that does both things equally as well as they're old machines did separately. This to me, seems like a natural evolution of the route they are on. Not decline.

Obviously, all this is theoretical, and their next machine will probably be a Pachinko machine or something.

[Kyouma]

Also, Knack has outsold the new Mario game

http://n4g.com/news/1405045/knack-has-outsold-super-mario-3d-world-in-the-uk

[squirtle]

We already know that. See two pages back.

[mdn2]

What earlier hardware are you on about, RubberJohnny? Because from memory, Nintendo have never been particularly quick in releasing software. In fact, the one time they did (Gamecube) the quality of the software suffered as a result.

[ras el hanout]

And of course before the machines were completely different. Now Nintendo's handheld and home console are both capable of 3d graphics and both have two screens. This has never happened before.

[Super Craig]

Nintendo have said that they're working on making their development work more portable between the home and handheld console lines. I don't think we'll get a hybrid though. Not at first anyway.

[squirtle]

One thing I'm surprised they haven't done is some kind of connectivity between the 3DS and the Wii U. Do any games bar Monster Hunter (I think) use any kind of link between the two machines?

[Stolly]

One thing I'm surprised they haven't done is some kind of connectivity between the 3DS and the Wii U. Do any games bar Monster Hunter (I think) use any kind of link between the two machines?

But surely that would just reduce the appeal of getting both machines? If you follow that to its logical conclusion Nintendo would probably just end up in the handheld market? They should have made their console fully powered with a non-unique controller that appealed to third parties. They didn't and have missed a huge opportunity, one that probably won't come round again for 4 or 5 years.

[squirtle]

Why does that not apply to the PS4/PSVita then?

Thinking about it though, it would have been interesting to see if Nintendo had made a more powerful console and packed in the Wii U Pro controller and then offered the ability to use the 3DS with a circle pad pro as a controller for it... Three Screens!

[utopastac]

with a non-unique controller that appealed to third parties.

As always with your opinions about Nintendo, I'm SO glad that they didn't do that.

[Robo_1]

APM, on 02 Dec 2013 - 12:33, said:

They're next piece of hardware will be handheld that beams stuff to play on the TV. Games will be portable and for the home. It just seems the direction they are heading in to me and would amalgamate all their resources into making games for one piece of hardware that is built for both the home and on the move. We're almost there with the Vita and some smartphones, so I can't see it being out of the reach of the next Nintendo console.

Yeah, I think this will very likely be the path they take. I remember hearing very early rumours that both MS and Sony were considering some sort of ARM based setup for their next gen consoles, but because they weren't yet available in 64 bit variants, the plan was scrapped.

Apple's A7 architecture which uses ARM's v8 chips are 64 bit, and I can see any future handheld/TV hybrid from Nintendo making use of a similar set up. Such chips combined with the latest PowerVR tech should at least be able to equal Wii U - if not comfortably top it - whilst retaining portability.

They could possibly make the system modular too, with a base station at home allowing for higher resolutions and frame rates when the portable component is plugged in.

ryodi, on 02 Dec 2013 - 14:52, said:

Nintendo combing home and portable means they are also merging two revenue streams so if disaster comes they have nothing to fall back on.

That's a fair point, but if it didn't pan out, I dare say they could continue with a new Gameboy and home system. Failing that there is always the third party option. Hell if Nintendo did ever choose to go third party, I dare say they wouldn't just pump their software out on all formats, they would likely negotiate the release of a Nintendo peripheral / controller for the consoles which ran their games, which would allow Nintendo to customise the play experience for their games, without having to worry about the back end tech.

[squirtle]

Nintendo Steam Box...

[Stolly]

As always with your opinions about Nintendo, I'm SO glad that they didn't do that.

Regardless, they've "uniqued" themselves out of the market

[ras el hanout]

Regardless, they've "uniqued" themselves out of the market

[Stolly]

Sorry ras I can't see whatever picture you just posted

[mushashi]

How long would it be until it's feasible and cheap enough to shrink the Wii U down into 5" handheld with tv out and Wii U games on cart?

Going by the Nintendo rate of progress on the portable versus home side, about a decade probably, the 3DS barely outpaces the GC in raw power, over a decade later. The PSV is not equal to a PS3/X360 either, cheap mobile with the power to rival consoles isn't here yet, several years at the earliest imo, you can just sort of,if you squint a bit, match the home consoles for technical featureset, but the size and TDP requirements are going to put a ceiling on rate of progress.

Of course, putting all of one's eggs in the same basket might not be the best long term strategy anyway.

[rgraves]

with a non-unique controller that appealed to third parties.

This is another one that gets me - what exactly do the other console controllers do that the gamepad doesn't in terms of 'third-party appeal'? Not a lot - there is virtually nothing that the Gamepad does not offer as a controller - it's absolutely not a reason for third parties to not port their software. It has twin sticks, it has plenty of buttons, it's a pretty direct match. That is, apart from that useless "we want to make the most of it" stance we sometimes get trotted out - which is mental. Just release it as is, add off-tv if you really want. Don't add stuff for the sake of it, it benefits nobody.

[squirtle]

It's a more politic way of saying 3rd party stuff sells like shit on the Wii U so why should we bother. I can see their point.

[NEG]

Pretty much everyone on here knows the WiiU is in trouble. Pretty much everyone who has got one is happy with the machine but knows its not succeeding commercially. I've not seen many posts recently where others are denying it's in trouble?

Scott, Scott where are you Scott. Scott!