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Why Tomb Raider's killed gaming for me


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I've been a jaded gamer for far too many years but oddly I really enjoyed TR, seeing it through to the end.

I do agree with the original posters general sentiment though. I'm fed up looting in games. The endless loot grind in Bioshock Infinite took a bit of the shine off that game. Dead Island Riptide went back to Lovefilm after 90 minutes play. I'd love to spend a few more hours twatting zombies but I spend as much time pressing 'square' to loot everything and anything in sight. Zzzzzzzz, tiresome mechanism that has little place in modern gaming.

Ah well, I've had a few weeks off Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. Time to fire it back up tonight. Now that's a proper game. Challenging, with zero hand holding. A game that you need to figure out for yourself.

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Dishonored might not be prefect, but its a big budget game that doesnt rely on spectacle to impress the player. And shooters like Stalker are open world games that dont treat the player like a brain dead mong only capable of appreciating gigantic explosions and setpieces.

I recommend Dishonored as well, as you can have so much fun in the levels, before even taking on the main quests. I love the adrenaline rush you get from a load of enemy guards spotting you, and rushing after you, and you desperately finding somewhere safe to blink to. But there is action too, and the sword play is great fun, as are your powers/gun/and other equipment you get to use.

The first story DLC is also fantastic.

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I think people just realise how stagnant a lot of retail stuff is at the moment, everyones responses have basically been "look over there", which while true, is hardly a vote of confidence for innovation in the retail AAA whatever space.

I mean, we've been doing some of these set pieces since RE4, 8 years ago.

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I think people just realise how stagnant a lot of retail stuff is at the moment, everyones responses have basically been "look over there", which while true, is hardly a vote of confidence.

I mean, we've been doing some of these set pieces since RE4, 8 years ago.

Actually, it IS a vote of confidence. It shows that there are enough talented developers out there who love games so much they'll ignore the traditional publisher/retailer business model in order to make their ideal, uncompromised game a reality. And that there are enough gamers out there who like that enough to support it. If anything, the unrestricted access to powerful hardware, affordable and powerful game engines and accessible online payment and distribution methods has probably been the biggest shift in game emancipation since the free for all bedroom coding days of the 8/16 bit generations.
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Since when did 'Spectacle' become a bad things i videogames? I love it when shit blows up or falls apart.

I really do fail to see what the problem is other than just bitterness towards the mainstream. Tomb Raider is fantastic at what it does. Compare it to say, Kane and Lynch. Both decent budgets, both trying to appear cinematic, both filled with set pieces. Tomb Raider nails that 'genre' Kane and Lynch doesn't. Hating on Tomb Raider is like those who hate football slagging off FIFA.

It's OK to be disappointed with this game, for sure, But to hold it up as representative as gaming as a medium is insane.

We now live in a world where you can sit and play Cart Life, Hotline Miami and the likes of Tomb Raider. Fuck you can download Mr Crab and Year Walk on the iphone on the way to work and enjoy extremely different gaming while having a shit. Gaming has never been so diverse, interesting and exciting, why you'd want to bail out at this point is completely beyond my comprehension.

I strongly disagree with this. I'm going to be honest here, I really really like both Kane and Lynch games and would actually say I prefer them over Tomb Raider. That's not an insult to Tomb Raider as I thought that game was good too but from a story standpoint at least I find both K&L games much more interesting. I love the K&L characters, they are probably two of my favourite characters from any game this gen. The thing I love is that everything that happens in both games is their own fault, they are a couple of fucking idiots, completely psychopathic and yet I still empathise with them greatly. The thing that helps both those games is that the voice acting of both Kane and Lynch are leagues ahead of what is in Tomb Raider. For example, the level in K&L2 where you escaped and are naked, tortured and desperate and Lynch has a breakdown. I found that more moving/felt sorry for the characters more than in any part of Tomb Raider and these guys are scumbags!

I also felt that they nailed the vibes that they were going for in both games wonderfully as well. I especially loved what they did in K&L2 - the dirty, grimy underground of Shanghai and their 48 hour nightmare through the neon lit shanghai streets was great. You could almost feel atmosphere. Hell I think they are pretty underrated shooters as well. Biggest problems are the shitty last 1/4 of the first game and the second game is just too short. I also thought the multiplayer in both games was pretty damn fun as well and something pretty unique/different.

I don't expect anyone else to feel this way as I know the Kane and Lynch games have such an 'air' about them due to the bullshit from Eidos (and of course a lot of folk just don't like the game!). But I think they are two of the most interesting shooters made in recent years with good casts, great voice acting and good stories (well more so the first game, the second game is pretty brief!). Are they completely successful ? No, they have their flaws, of course they do but I'd be more likely to replay either K&L game over Tomb Raider anyday and I am jonesing for a K&L3 to finish the story.

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I do agree with the original posters general sentiment though. I'm fed up looting in games. The endless loot grind in Bioshock Infinite took a bit of the shine off that game. Dead Island Riptide went back to Lovefilm after 90 minutes play. I'd love to spend a few more hours twatting zombies but I spend as much time pressing 'square' to loot everything and anything in sight. Zzzzzzzz, tiresome mechanism that has little place in modern gaming.

Ah well, I've had a few weeks off Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. Time to fire it back up tonight. Now that's a proper game. Challenging, with zero hand holding. A game that you need to figure out for yourself.

Isn't that part of the the difference? MH3U is practically defined by loot grinding - it's one of the main things you use to set goals for yourself after you've progressed through all the ranks, but what you do to get said loot is so fun, challenging and rewarding of your knowledge and mastery of the game that it doesn't feel much like grinding until you finish the quest and find out what you've got, unless you get a bit too obsessed with getting some of the rarer stuff really quickly (ref: stroppy posts all over the internet).

I've been hunting the same monster over and over in my last few sessions for rare materials, but continual switching of play styles and weapons, and the fact that said monster will fuck you up if you don't pay full attention meant it never felt like a slog, before even taking into account the random factor from playing with other people, it's felt like a couple of nights of epic gaming.

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I strongly disagree with this. I'm going to be honest here, I really really like both Kane and Lynch games and would actually say I prefer them over Tomb Raider. That's not an insult to Tomb Raider as I thought that game was good too but from a story standpoint at least I find both K&L games much more interesting. I love the K&L characters, they are probably two of my favourite characters from any game this gen. The thing I love is that everything that happens in both games is their own fault, they are a couple of fucking idiots, completely psychopathic and yet I still empathise with them greatly. The thing that helps both those games is that the voice acting of both Kane and Lynch are leagues ahead of what is in Tomb Raider. For example, the level in K&L2 where you escaped and are naked, tortured and desperate and Lynch has a breakdown. I found that more moving/felt sorry for the characters more than in any part of Tomb Raider and these guys are scumbags!

I also felt that they nailed the vibes that they were going for in both games wonderfully as well. I especially loved what they did in K&L2 - the dirty, grimy underground of Shanghai and their 48 hour nightmare through the neon lit shanghai streets was great. You could almost feel atmosphere. Hell I think they are pretty underrated shooters as well. Biggest problems are the shitty last 1/4 of the first game and the second game is just too short. I also thought the multiplayer in both games was pretty damn fun as well and something pretty unique/different.

I don't expect anyone else to feel this way as I know the Kane and Lynch games have such an 'air' about them due to the bullshit from Eidos (and of course a lot of folk just don't like the game!). But I think they are two of the most interesting shooters made in recent years with good casts, great voice acting and good stories (well more so the first game, the second game is pretty brief!). Are they completely successful ? No, they have their flaws, of course they do but I'd be more likely to replay either K&L game over Tomb Raider anyday and I am jonesing for a K&L3 to finish the story.

I completely disagree with all of that but ill never tell you that you shouldn't enjoy Kane and Lynch or that you're wrong to do so.

What i'm trying to say is that after playing Kane and Lynch 2 and pretty much hating it, I never felt that it has 'Killed gaming' for me. These games have an audience, and if you're not in that audience, you won't like them. It doesn't mean they shouldn't exist and certainly shouldn't be considered as representation of where all games are going.

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I completely disagree with all of that but ill never tell you that you shouldn't enjoy Kane and Lynch or that you're wrong to do so.

What in trying to say is that after playing Kane and Lynch 2 and pretty much hating it, I never felt that it has 'Killed gaming' for me. These games have an audience, and if you're not in that audience, you won't like them. It doesn't mean they should exist and certainly shouldn't be considered as representation of where all games are going.

Fair enough :)

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Deadly Premonition needs a good couple of hours play before it becomes the GREATEST GAME IN HISTORY.

So Deadly Premonition - a game with loads of cutscenes and QTEs is the BEST GAME EVAR despite the fact that it plays and looks like dogshit when you get control of it (and I love DP), but Tomb Raider - a game with loads of cutscenes and QTEs has RUINED GAMING FOR YOU despite the fact that it plays and looks brilliantly when you get control of it?

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I never thought about that! Deadly Premonition is objectively an awful videogame. It's kinda worth playing for anyone that likes David Lynch films, though. It quite accurately follows the mysterious opening, increasingly mental centre, baffling non-sensical ending template. It has a ton of shake-your-head-and-laugh moments and is really memorable.

I think I'd recommend watching a Let's Play over playing it though, actually. If you can be bothered. It's a good 20 hours long.

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The gameplay in Deadly Premonition reminded me very much of the budget, janky PS2 games you used to get years ago. Not great but you get used to it. I found the combat perfectly serviceable tbh. The thing that brought it down were a few of the enemy types and how bullet spongy they can be, with infinite ammo guns it became pretty easy though. I do actually wish Sweary had been able to do his original idea which was to have no combat at all, but he was told it would never sell otherwise.

That reminds me that the Directors Cut of Deadly Premonition is out now, must get me mits on it soon!

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You can have a linear game with a non-linear narrative, or a non-linear game with a linear narrative. Or a non-linear game with a non-linear narrative, or a linear game with a linear narrative. What is it you don't like exactly, because 'linear' in itself doesn't imply much.

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...And most of the COD games have non-linear narratives because they do flashbacks to the bit where you're forced to miss a sniper shot even if the crosshair is in the right place. :lol:

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You can have a linear game with a non-linear narrative, or a non-linear game with a linear narrative. Or a non-linear game with a non-linear narrative, or a linear game with a linear narrative. What is it you don't like exactly, because 'linear' in itself doesn't imply much.

Apologies, I was at work and rushed that out into something meaningless.

What I actually meant was that I've not enjoyed pre-defined-spectacle driven games from the very beginning.

That is to say: I've no problem with linear narratives (whether in the chronological or 'control over the plot' sense), or traditional level-based structures, or lack of choice in games.* I can't stand pre-destined combat sequences, however, or playable cut-scenes. Frankly, I'd rather just watch a cut-scene than take the Half-Life/Uncharted approach to 'cinematic' gameplay and 'playable' expository sequences.

*though I do very much enjoy being given the ability to steer a narrative/conversations etc.

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I usually see these little cutscenes before checkpoints or at plot moments as rewards for ploughing through a piece of action before. A moment to sit back, praise yourself for your mad skills, watch the story unfold and then jump back in. As long as the balance is right (not the MGS style walk-3-paces-watch-a-dialogue-about-dishwashers-for-the-next-10-minutes), I think it's an excellent structure for games. In recent times I think Tomb Raider and Max Payne 3 did this amazingly well.

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Resident Evil 4 is one of the best games I ever played, so how come I got so bored with Resi 6 that I turned it off for ever, 4 hours in? Yet, I recently downloaded a HD patch for the PC Resi4, and played it to completion over the space of a week?

Just one more question - do you play it with mouse & keyboard then?

Would be great if there was a gizmo allowing one to plug the Gamecube controller to the PC.

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